High Ho it's off to the polls we go.

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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So you spent all your research in one forum and now can only post unsubstantiated opinion?

There is no need to reproduce it here Anna, it is easy enough to do the research. Scan the web for anything, life expectancy, personal income, infant mortality, child poverty etc., compare the numbers for 1993 and 2005 (beginning and end of Liberal rule). You will see a substantial improvement in almost every indicator.
Sorry, but you claim an awful lot of stuff but extremely rarely back any of your nonsense up.
I don't need to research it, I know what the UN published and it is lacking an awful lot of info.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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No Sir Joe, Canadians did not give Chrétien back to back majorities. Ontario and Quebec did. Look at how few seats the liberals got in most of Canada.

Really taxslave? And how does that negate my statement that Canada gave him three back to back majorities? Are not Ontario and Quebec part of Canada? Anyway, it wasn’t so much Québec as it was Ontario. Out of 103 seats in Ontario, Liberals got at least 100 each of the three times. When you pick up that many seats in one province, it is easy enough to pick up the rest elsewhere.
Whatever. Ontario and Quebec are not ALL of Canada. Canada would be a lot better off if you poor saps in QC and ON would quit voting in the same old garbage all the time.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Better be careful, you will be branded as a Western Separatist (although I like the idea of the martimes and territories, we do not have to take Danny Williams, do we??:angryfire:
lol Duct tape him and hang him in a closet if you like.
I don't really care what I am tagged as. Canada isn't much of a country to start with. It's the coagulation of several quite different regions. An amalgamation.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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UUhhhh, just a minute.........You may not have noticed the free trade agreements between Alberta, BC and Sask? Not bad for people who hate each other. Also, I believe the Sask govt is now a conservative type govt, the Sask Party? Threw the Dippers out on their ear due to way too high taxes and spending. I would dare say that right now, the three most western provinces not only get along, but have so much in common with resources, etc., that they do form a large economic block that the rest of the country should not ignore. I have been following this quietly for some time now, and it is quite interesting how things have changed over the last few years. And BTW, although the BC govt is a Liberal govt, it is almost center-right, not left.
Dead on the nail, Mr. Blue. SirJosephPorter has no idea what he's talking about.
 
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AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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Maybe this would be a better way to govern our country
**Forming the Government of the NWT.​
Here is some interesting information on how the NWT government is formed from their web site. It sounds kinda neat - but I don't think that it would work well for Ontario or Quebec... but that is just my opinion.
The Northwest Territories is one of only two federal, provincial or territorial jurisdictions in Canada that operates under the consensus system of government rather than the more familiar system of party politics.
Within this system all 14 Members of the Legislative Assembly (MLAs) are elected as independents in their constituencies.
Once elected, the MLAs travel to the Legislative Assembly where a territorial leadership meeting is held. The first order of business is the election of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly.
After the election of the Speaker, Members turn their focus to the election of the Premier. In the 12th and 13th Legislative Assemblies, Members voted to move the selection of the Premier into a public forum.
In the last selection process candidates were nominated, they were given 20 minutes to present their platforms, and then the floor was open for questions from MLAs. Each MLA was restricted in the number of questions he/she could ask of the candidates vying for Premier. Once all questions were asked a secret ballot vote was held. The candidate who garners 50 per cent plus one of the votes is selected Premier.
The election of five Cabinet Ministers is next on the agenda. Again candidates are nominated and given an opportunity to outline their platforms before a secret ballot vote is held.
The consensus system of governing is more in keeping with the way that aboriginal peoples have traditionally made decisions. Unanimous agreement is not necessary for decisions to be made, motions passed, and legislation enacted. A simple majority carries the vote.
Ordinary Members, those who are not on Cabinet, become the "unofficial opposition" in the House. They are responsible, through questioning and through Standing Committees, for making the Government accountable and responsive to the people of the Northwest Territories.
That's reasonable intelligent. It's too much to expect from ON and QC I agree, though, and the parties would never let it happen in the ROC. Something like this is another one I doubt would ever happen either.
 

pegger

Electoral Member
Dec 4, 2008
397
8
18
Cambridge, Ontario
Pegger – I did not dispute that and to tell you the truth did not give a shiiite – I value truth and honesty –
My post then yours post was as follows:

Quote:
“Quoting Goober
SJP
Would using the RCMP as his personal Police Force qualify him as having the character and qualities of leaders of Banana Republics?

Yes. Harper would definitely fit this description.”


Can you provide evidence of this?

Actions of Harper that would qualify him has having the character and qualities of leaders of Banana Republics:

1) Suing the opposition for doing their job: Harper lawsuit smacks of authoritarian state: prof
2) using military aircraft for personal use: Harper called hypocrite over usage of jets

I could look for more - but that's enough for me at the moment...

PS - I also value Truth and Honesty. Harper does have any of that either.
 

pegger

Electoral Member
Dec 4, 2008
397
8
18
Cambridge, Ontario
Whatever. Ontario and Quebec are not ALL of Canada. Canada would be a lot better off if you poor saps in QC and ON would quit voting in the same old garbage all the time.

LOL. That's rich coming from a Westerner. when's the last time Alberta had a change in Provincial governments? When's the last time YOUR MP has been from a different party?

My MP has been either been Conservative, or Liberal (I don't think an NDP has ever won here). At least we switch been red and blue ever so often.... In fact, I think at the moment, my MLA is a Liberal, and my MP is a Conservative. Imagine that....
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
I don't know..they took the unpopular position of taxing Income Trusts (or will be taxed). It was a very popular investment for the wealthy but every corp in Canada was converting to a trust so we'd eventually have no tax base. Those were hugely popular in Alberta. That showed me they are more than just being in the back pockets of the wealthy.

That change was inevitable. I was also hit by this. Anyone can buy income trusts. Lots of retired people owned them. They were an ideal way to convert savings to income. But their profits should have been taxed like all other publicly traded stocks.

If you look at the pre-announcement trading, you can tell the conservatives did not leak news about this change to their friends. There was no pre-announcement spike in trading. That means no one outside the PM's cabinet knew this change was coming. The way Harper and Flaherty managed this change raised my opinion of them. Not enough to vote for them, but certainly they went up a notch or two on the integrity ladder. If I had known what was coming, I'd have dumped my trusts, bought them back a week later and made a tidy profit. Instead I went for a roller coaster ride like everyone else.

So yes I will give Harper and Flaherty points for having integrity related to this issue.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
No, what I stated clearly was pay as you go. If you can cut unnecessary spending, then you can lower taxes. It is not reduce taxes first, it is cut spending, leading to less expenses, which require less income, ergo, lower taxes.


OK, then here we are in agreement. Cutting taxes is easy, cutting spending is difficult. So conservatives cut taxes first and then cannot cut spending, so they borrow. That is why conservatism has become synonymous with borrow and spend.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Ontario & Quebec are Parts of Canada, but NOT all of Canada. The issue
being pointed out (by yourself) was that Ontario & Quebec decide what
Government the rest of Canada must endure between elections. The rest
of the country outside of Ontario & Quebec might not consider themselves
as just elsewhere, and might be very tired of being considered colonies of
Ontario & Quebec, and would like a say in their own governance Federally.

I'm outside of Ontario & Quebec, and I know that the election is usually decided
before the polls open out here, but I still go and vote hoping that my little part
(or my entire provinces little part) might make a differance.


I know it isn’t fair Ron, but that is the political reality in Canada. For historical reasons, Ontario and Quebec are huge provinces, and in a democracy, must be allotted seats according to their population. Ontario and Québec together account for 178 MPs, out of a total of 310.

If the four western provinces untied, they will have a significant clout, they will have substantial number of MPs in the Parliament, roughly as many as Ontario (I think). But I don’t see that happening. Another possibility might be to break up Ontario into three or four provinces, but Ontario would never agree to that.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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Actions of Harper that would qualify him has having the character and qualities of leaders of Banana Republics:

1) Suing the opposition for doing their job: Harper lawsuit smacks of authoritarian state: prof
2) using military aircraft for personal use: Harper called hypocrite over usage of jets

I could look for more - but that's enough for me at the moment...

PS - I also value Truth and Honesty. Harper does have any of that either.
You must be like Les & me, constantly disappointed with politicians in general. :)
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Another reason why Ontario and Quebec are so important is because of their location. Since they are eastern provinces, voting opens and closes there earlier than it does in Western provinces. By the time Ontario and Québec results are out, it is pretty much clear who will form the government and whether a minority or a majority.

It may have been different if Ontario and Quebec had been the westernmost provinces.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Any unnecessary disruption in our political structure at this point of our very early economic recovery will have a negative effect, at least short term. World markets like stability. Interest rates may go up, our dollar may drop, or any number of other results of a political disruption.

Again, you give Canada too much importance; world markets probably won’t even notice the elections. As to Canadian rates going up, I don’t see that happening either. The economic policies of the two main parties are pretty much similar, if Libs get elected, it won’t make that much difference to the economy.

I think even Canadian markets will pretty much ignore the elections.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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48
Ontario
I want to make one more point off this post. If, as you claim, the rest of the world does not give us much importance on the world market, is it safe to say that the world wide recession, then is not Harper's fault? And if this is true, does it not stand to reason, then, that IGGY is dead wrong when he is blaming Harper for the deficit (caused mostly by stimulus spending the Fibs demanded for supporting the govt), and Harper is not responsible for higher unemployment? Just wondering!!!

Quite right, AlbertaBlue, the world recession is not Harper’s fault. When is a Canadian leader ever responsible for a world recession? Doesn’t happen.

But when iggy blames Harper for the deficit, he does have a point. Harper inherited the economy which had healthy surpluses. Then he blew it all away in tax cuts mostly benefiting the rich. Thus the GST cut disproportionately benefited the rich. A rich playboy buying a 100,000 car saved 2000 $, while a single mother on minimum wage, who spends most her money on food and shelter, didn’t save any.

Now to be fair, Harper was not as irresponsible as Bush, he did not run up huge deficits in order to give tax cuts to the rich. However, he did blow away all the surplus.

So when the downturn came, the deficits was bigger than it needed to be. If Harper had adopted Liberal blueprint and kept running healthy surplus, the deficits would have been much lower than it is today.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
But when iggy blames Harper for the deficit, he does have a point. Harper inherited the economy which had healthy surpluses. Then he blew it all away in tax cuts mostly benefiting the rich. Thus the GST cut disproportionately benefited the rich. A rich playboy buying a 100,000 car saved 2000 $, while a single mother on minimum wage, who spends most her money on food and shelter, didn’t save any.

And all of it supported by the Liberal party.

Ignatieff has no point here at all.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
UUhhhh, just a minute.........You may not have noticed the free trade agreements between Alberta, BC and Sask? Not bad for people who hate each other. Also, I believe the Sask govt is now a conservative type govt, the Sask Party? Threw the Dippers out on their ear due to way too high taxes and spending. I would dare say that right now, the three most western provinces not only get along, but have so much in common with resources, etc., that they do form a large economic block that the rest of the country should not ignore. I have been following this quietly for some time now, and it is quite interesting how things have changed over the last few years. And BTW, although the BC govt is a Liberal govt, it is almost center-right, not left.

Everything you say is true, AlebrtaBlue, but that doesn’t negate anything I said.

I welcome the trade agreement between the three provinces, I would hope that all the provinces have such an agreement; it can only be good for Canada.

However, it is one thing to have trade agreements, totally something else to be parts of a country. No doubt center right governments are in power in all three provinces, but it won’t last. Eventually left of center, NDP governments will come back to power in Saskatchewan and BC.

I can especially see friction between BC and Alberta in any possible federation. BC is much more liberal on social issues (gay marriage etc.) than Alberta, and in any federation, BC will prevail because of its bigger population.

The fact that federation will not work does not mean that there cannot be good relations, trade agreements etc. If tomorrow Québec separates form rest of Canada, I would want good relations, trade agreements with Quebec as well.

But having good relations is not the same as being part of the same country. You may have a business partner with whom you get along quite well, but you may not want him as a friend, he may drive you nuts.