Debit Cards and Overdraft fees

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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$25 per overdraft fee? I think I noticed a sign in my bank that said $38/overdraft item.
That's chunky.

I don't know where you bank or what the deal is, but my debit transactions seem to
come out of my chequing account immediately. Could this be a difference between
Canadian & American Banking systems, and thus the reason so few have touched
this Thread so far?

One of my accounts has three small items come out of it (auto insurance, a small life
insurance policy, and a bank fee) which combined are about $85.00 or so....
meaning that the potential is there for me to be able to accrew three overdraft fees
(per transaction for three transactions) of $38 each ($114 together) owing on top of
the origional $85 if money isn't in that account at the right time. It's a non-issue for
me becouse I make darn sure I never put myself into that possition...but again the
potential is there....
Are you saying that over draft fees are or could be $38.00 each? I don't think so. There is a mis-understanding here. There is a major difference between overdrafts and insufficient funds. You are charged an interest fee on an overdraft. So, if you do go over the allowable amount (say your OD is $500.00) your cheque will bounce or if you use a debit card, it will be declined (it won't go beyond the allowed overdraft). You can be charged everyday you are overdrawn (or in other words - into your overdraft)but it is an interest charge. Bounce a cheque and you will be charged something like $38.00 but there is only one charge unless you bounce more than one cheque.
In regard to your balance. People forget all the time that they have payments set up and many think the most clever way of saving money and not letting the bank get interest off them is to pay on the due date of every bill. If you are not good with keeping track - you know your paydays and you know when your bills are due. Set them up from the beginning of the year. I do the banking in our house. My husband doesn't have an idea how the household runs. He would and has assumed that the balance he sees on the ATM print out is a true balance. It NEVER is. We live mostly off his pensions. I sit down every December and set up all monthly payments (hydro/nat. gas/phones etc.)to come out about 2 days after his cheques are to be deposited. I'm never late for a payment. I'm never worried about my husband withdrawing more than he should (and then wondering if we have enough to make the next payment). From time to time I sit him down and go over things with him so he has an understanding of what needs to be done should he need to be the one in control. It took awhile to get through to one of my kids that he could not rely on the printed balance from the ATM but - he's got it now. The worst thing is having an overdraft if you cannot afford one. You just keep getting deeper in debt and the bank has the right to pull your right to your overdraft at the snap of their fingers. I had the manager tell me to cut the overdraft to zero on many peoples accounts. The manager has that right. Keep your overdraft (which you must apply for) for emergency use only. Real emergencies - not just something you want to buy before payday.
Debit transactions usually come out immediately but it depends on the business. I worked in one office where they only sent the debit amounts in every two days because the fees to the business itself were higher if sent in daily. A foolish move on their part in my opinion. I assume there are still businesses that do the same and maybe even more now with money being tight. There must be some of you out there who remember that you could once right a cheque and it would take at least a week before it cleared your account. People actually "banked" on it.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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I'm sorry my response is so far behind. I got held up for about 3 hours while I was in the middle of writing.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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Hm, I may not understand overdraft in the context of this discussion.

I can overdraw my account to a negative balance, but there is nowhere near an exorbitant fee of $25 or $38 per overdrawn item; rather, I am charged a one-time fee of $5 for any month in which I have an overdrawn balance, and I am charged a moderate interest rate on that negative balance, payable monthly. (For greater certainty, I deal with Canada’s Scotiabank.)
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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Hm, I may not understand overdraft in the context of this discussion.

I can overdraw my account to a negative balance, but there is nowhere near an exorbitant fee of $25 or $38 per overdrawn item; rather, I am charged a one-time fee of $5 for any month in which I have an overdrawn balance, and I am charged a moderate interest rate on that negative balance, payable monthly. (For greater certainty, I deal with Canada’s Scotiabank.)
They will likely examine your account to see if you have regular deposits as most people these days have direct deposit for pay cheques. They are not going to let you run a negative balance for very long regardless unless you are well above the core customer status. CIBC used to charge $5.00 per day for every day you were over drawn. I don't know about now. It's been a few years. Those large fees are for NSF cheques.
 
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VanIsle

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In the Canadian system once you make a transaction electronically it is logged in the electronic balance so that if you immediately go to a different retailer or ATM it knows what your available balance is.
It will know you immediate available balance but it does not account for the payments you have coming out the next day or that you may think is already out. Even when you bank on line, not every transaction is done on the day it is expected.
 

Ron in Regina

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Apr 9, 2008
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They will likely examine your account to see if you have regular deposits as most people these days have direct deposit for pay cheques. They are not going to let you run a negative balance for very long regardless unless you are well above the core customer status. CIBC used to charge $5.00 per day for every day you were over drawn. I don't know about now. It's been a few years. Those large fees are for NSF cheques.


You're correct. I've confused the two. I don't use an overdraft or NSF things...
so they're both abstract to my banking style. Good catch.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
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Backwater, Ontario.
By the way if your system is immediate in its transactions do the banks still allow you to overdraft ?

Yes. You are offered overdraft protection, and told, in writing, what it will cost you to overdraw. Then, being a shmuck and not knowing what your balance is will cost you only interest.......no penalty.
It's a mugs' game though. Charges are charges and debt is debt.
Debit card transactions are immediate. No holds are placed on your account. Such as the one you mentioned when you press OK for $100. worth of gas, but only pump $40.00.
Unbelievable that someone would allow "Imperial Oil" access to one's bank account. Or Paypal, or anything else.
The U.S. banking system must be as wonderful as its' health care.
Can hardly wait for Harpo to get a majority, so we can live life to the fullest...........amount of misery.:angry3:
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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By the way if your system is immediate in its transactions do the banks still allow you to overdraft ?

Depends on what you want. I do not have an overdraft by choice. If necessary I can use a credit card which I do at times and get essentially a free loan for a month since it is a rare occasion when they are not paid in full each month. People must learn to take control of their finances since there are millions of sharks out there just waiting to separate a fool and his money. Basic houshold finance should be taught in school instead of some of the more useless courses that are mandatory.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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Depends on what you want. I do not have an overdraft by choice. If necessary I can use a credit card which I do at times and get essentially a free loan for a month since it is a rare occasion when they are not paid in full each month. People must learn to take control of their finances since there are millions of sharks out there just waiting to separate a fool and his money. Basic houshold finance should be taught in school instead of some of the more useless courses that are mandatory.

You are sooo right. I've been saying that for years. Parents who manage their money poorly certainly do not teach their kids to manage it well. My husband's Dad always said "it's only money". I think for years my husband believed two things. One was that his Dad had a ton of money and two was that "it's only money". He was always stepping up to the plate offering to pay for everyone no matter how many. I took his credit card away. Hah! He even tried again last night to figure a way to get the card back - in case he needed it today. It's still in my purse!!
 

jimmoyer

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I just want to thank all of you. This is a great forum to vett any ideas or compare differences between both countries. Having an egocentric-country-centric point of view I keep making the mistake of assuming this delay in transactions was the same for Canada.

I made some mistakes in explaining the system in the states and also contributed to some misunderstandings.

Overdraft. This term can mean:
1 ----- Just as in Canada, banks here do offer overdraft protection,
2 ----- or this can mean the ability to have a line of credit in being allowed
to overdraft and be charged 2 percent or whatever to pay it back.
3 -----or when a bunch of delayed transactions all attempt to post at same time
and go into the negative, this negative balance will occur and then after a
short time the bank will deactivate your debit card and will report insufficient
at the point of sale.

It is that last meaning of overdraft where you can actually achieve a negative balance is what I was referencing. I liken this to an analogy of a car going fast and trying to screech to a halt. In that sense banks will allow a negative balance and then in a short delayed response will deactive your card and report at point of sale NSF, not sufficient funds.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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The Dinosaur speaks!

I don't get overdraft charges, because I bloody well don't use debit cards. I take the money out of the bank as I need it, and pay cash......

Cash is lovely........you can't spend more than you have, it is wonderfully anonymous, and it works everywhere....whether their debit machines are working or not..........
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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One thing I don't understand is how you can get overdrawn with a debit card. Whenever I use a debit card I have to wait for approval from the bank before the purchase goes through. I have a set overdraft and once that is used up, I assume my debit carding is finished until I make a deposit.
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
The Dinosaur speaks!

I don't get overdraft charges, because I bloody well don't use debit cards. I take the money out of the bank as I need it, and pay cash......

Cash is lovely........you can't spend more than you have, it is wonderfully anonymous, and it works everywhere....whether their debit machines are working or not..........

The best part about cash is that it isn't easy to trace. Pay cash, and don't bother with airmiles.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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The best part about cash is that it isn't easy to trace. Pay cash, and don't bother with airmiles.
What you both say is true. The sad reality is that these days, many seniors are a little afraid to carry cash. Lots of them use debit but most seem most comfortable with credit cards. Many younger people are strapped. They use anywhere from 1 - 3 forms of payment --- all at once. Some will pay $5.00 cash, $10.00 on debit and put the rest of their credit card. Some call the bank from their cell phone, right there at the checkout and transfer funds somehow so they can use their debit card. I've never needed to do such a thing so I don't know how they do it that fast. They give me their debit card and it says insufficient funds (I cannot see that - I hear them talking)so they call and get funds transferred. When I watch people paying by these methods I have to wonder about things like the cost of a cell phone, the cost of the bags of chips and the case of pop and worse yet - the cost of the pack of cigarettes that seems to trump almost all other things.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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The debit is processed at the POS though, using the debit PIN pad... the transaction is approved or rejected by the system, you’re told immediately if there are NSF, rather than having it surprise you through overdraft.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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What you both say is true. The sad reality is that these days, many seniors are a little afraid to carry cash. Lots of them use debit but most seem most comfortable with credit cards. Many younger people are strapped. They use anywhere from 1 - 3 forms of payment --- all at once. Some will pay $5.00 cash, $10.00 on debit and put the rest of their credit card. Some call the bank from their cell phone, right there at the checkout and transfer funds somehow so they can use their debit card. I've never needed to do such a thing so I don't know how they do it that fast. They give me their debit card and it says insufficient funds (I cannot see that - I hear them talking)so they call and get funds transferred. When I watch people paying by these methods I have to wonder about things like the cost of a cell phone, the cost of the bags of chips and the case of pop and worse yet - the cost of the pack of cigarettes that seems to trump almost all other things.

Obviously, these people have different priorities, and having a cell phone but no money is important to them.

Who are we to argue? Each of us is free to set our own priorities, whether it be food, shelter, drugs, or toys.