Ever take a close look at the 10 Commandments?

[gerryh]

You never know, Gerry. This atheist may one day find a believer that can supply proof of some deity's existence. And sometimes you have to push someone to get info out of them.

It never ceases to impress me (negatively) as to how far some people will go to get others to believe in deities, either.

I'm not interested in ghosts either, BTW. lol
Leprachauns, maybe.
Easter bunny, definitely. I love chocolate and Easter eggs.

Well, I've said this before to people that have asked me to "prove it", God's existence is not something that anyone can "prove" to someone else. No one ever "proved" God's existence to me, the only way I can describe the "proof" I got was that it came from "inside" of me. It was not anything external. now I realize that for some, that "proof" isn't good enough, and I say fine, it's their loss not mine. However, the constant belittling of ones faith by those that have really have no idea, can be very frustrating. Most of the "questioning" coming from "non-Christians" is not about trying to find what others of the Christian faith have already fond, but instead is a way of trying to tear down the beliefs of those Christians. A way of trying to "convert" them to "non believer" status.

Truly, I have had only one person, and you know of his Karrie as he and I butted heads big time and he is from your neck of the woods, truly ask and listen and then inform me that he couldn't accept what I regarded as "truth of God's existence", it was to "faith based", too "ethereal" for him. He wanted some way of finding concrete, touchable proof, which is not available at this time. That was the end of it, he didn't put down my faith in what I believe, didn't compare God or Christ to the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, but then, at that time he WAS truly looking for answers.

 

[AnnaG]

I can accept that as proof that's how you see gods. I am a bit the same way, except I don't put the onus for my existence on it. I simply explain that my coyote spirit is the part of me that loves to play jokes and tricks. The bear is the healing part of me, etc. But I know they aren't real because I am simply me.
I agree that there are people on both sides constantly trying to convert everyone else. I think we all like to convince others of our beliefs at some time or other. "I have the best car made", "White grapes are better than dark grapes", etc.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Number two about craven images: what are those bleeding Jesus' doing in the churches and the mother Mary statues, angels etc. Seems to me the church has been breaking rule 2 from the get go.

Cliffy, to be fair, it is the Catholics who make images of Jesus and Mary, and Catholics don’t have the Commandment about making graven images. That is the Second Commandments for Protestants, and Protestants by and large do not make graven images. My guess is that Martin Luther inserted the Commandment about graven images during the Reformation, for reasons of his own.

So at least in this respect, there is no inconsistency. That is the one big difference between Catholic Ten Commandments and Protestant Ten Commandments.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

For a truly expert opinion about the Ten Commandments, ask an atheist.

Many with over-bloated ego on this forum.

Indeed YJ, it seems to me that many atheists are well versed in the Bible, more so than many ‘Christians’.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

This atheist may one day find a believer that can supply proof of some deity's existence. And sometimes you have to push someone to get info out of them.

Perhaps you may Anna, (and by ‘this atheist’ I assume you mean yourself), but I don’t see any proof that will convince me of the existence of God. Even if God appears on earth and performs miracles I am not sure how that would prove that he is God (and not just some alien life form from a much more advanced civilization).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

the reason I know that atheist organizations sell their point of view in exactly the same way that the religious sell theirs, is because someone encouraged me to look into their organization

Here I disagree with you karrie, Atheists do not sell their point of view like Christians do. Atheists do not promise rich rewards in after life to those who believe in Atheism (like Christians and Muslims do), Atheists do not threaten non believers with eternal torture in the lake of fire, in the pits of Hell (like Christians and Muslims do), Atheists have not killed non Atheists because they wouldn’t convert to Atheism (like Christians and Muslims have, they have killed millions because they would not convert to Christianity or Islam).

Atheists simply put forth their view that there is no God, it is for everyone to come to that view on their own, rather than by listening to somebody else. This is totally unlike Christianity or Islam, where one usually converts to Christianity or Islam because a Christian or a Muslim gave them the ‘good news’ about Jesus or Allah.

 

[JLM]

the reason I know that atheist organizations sell their point of view in exactly the same way that the religious sell theirs, is because someone encouraged me to look into their organization

Here I disagree with you karrie, Atheists do not sell their point of view like Christians do. Atheists do not promise rich rewards in after life to those who believe in Atheism (like Christians and Muslims do), Atheists do not threaten non believers with eternal torture in the lake of fire, in the pits of Hell (like Christians and Muslims do), Atheists have not killed non Atheists because they wouldn’t convert to Atheism (like Christians and Muslims have, they have killed millions because they would not convert to Christianity or Islam).

Atheists simply put forth their view that there is no God, it is for everyone to come to that view on their own, rather than by listening to somebody else. This is totally unlike Christianity or Islam, where one usually converts to Christianity or Islam because a Christian or a Muslim gave them the ‘good news’ about Jesus or Allah.

Why do you always tar all "Christians" with same brush? What you are talking about aren't really "Christians" at all. What they are is a bunch of hypocrites who attend Church every Sunday, stick their noses in other people's business, act very holy for a couple of hours and by the middle of Sunday afternoon are right back out there back stabbing people. Some of us never go to Church, except for marrying and burying and mind our own business and don't really care what others believe. I have no problem with Atheists (more properly agnostics) - agnostics are more honest, they don't pretend to know, whereas Atheists are just as bad as a lot of "Christians".

 

[AnnaG]

Seems to be a couple atheists here that constantly claim the lack of gods. That sounds like attempted persuasion to me. I do that now and then myself. So there is coercion on both sides whatever the method.

 

[MHz]

What if the Ten Commandments where written today? What would they look like?8O

What if they were enforced today according to the NT, what would that look like?
Some religious radicals (Cliffy, SJP) might suggest some off-the -wall stuff to make God appear insane. One of the things that is said to not be done is to become a busybody in mens affairs. On a personal level is would appear to be the ones who look over fences but remain aloof and condemn only in private and by anonymous deeds. Thaken to the political extreme it would be do Nations have the right to judge other Nations. If they do not want judgments placed on them then they should not 'judge' (demand change). Exposing corrupt things is the duty of every person. Reality says if you pick the wrong one you will be silenced.....permanently.
The reality of Scripture is that God isn't all that concerned with our 'puny' attempts to 'clarify who He is'. Take away the things mentioned in this verse and a lot of potential 'arguments' simple disolve as totally unimportant to the things that really are important.

Col:2:16:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat,
or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:

The important things are covered by Peter in 1Pe:4:12: and on to the end of that passage. Even though it deals with the time referenced as the latter days the conduct of those that He will spare are quite clearly defined. You could boil that down to 'don't be the thorn is anybodies side, let alone a Christian that Jesus will 'go to bat for'. That isn't an idle threat, it is a warning of how not to blow the opportunity of the gift of life in the new world.

2Th:1:7:
And to you who are troubled rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Rest in this verse means death, when it appears in Revelation it might carry a higher penality. Say a Jew killed a Christian, that would void his 'free-pass into life in the 1,000 years. The sinners of the Gentiles would have his company instead, if he is lucky.

In todays place and time the Gov is our God, they make the rules and they apply the punishments to breaking the rules.
The discussion would then turn to how 'liberal are we' compared to the rest of the world. Does our constitution give the people as much rights to the recourses as does Venezuela's ?

 

[AnnaG]

This god allows kids to be abused. That sure shows condemnation of the act and a lot of love for the wee ones, doesn't it?
I can't see much difference between abusing kids and allowing them to be abused if one has the power available to stop it. If I were a god, I couldn't even bear the thought of allowing kids to starve or suffer from cancer and other things.
Perhaps the saying went not like "Suffer the little chidren to come unto me" but rather "Suffer, little children, then come to me".
I wish someone would explain to me reasonably why innocent kids need to suffer and be punished. I would spare them. If I made a second life for people afterwards, I would spare the innocents there, too. But that's me. I can't handle suffering very well.

 

[JLM]

What if the Ten Commandments where written today? What would they look like?8O

I'm not sure that we want or need Ten Commandments, I'd scrap the whole kit and caboodle and just keep the Golden Rule- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"- that gets rid of all the malarkey about praising Gods and just provides for people to live in peace and harmony.

 

[AnnaG]

I'm with you there, JLM. And that policy doesn't really need a whole book's worth of sometimes vague and ambiguous interpretations to figure out its meaning.

 

[Cannuck]

Here I disagree with you karrie, Atheists do not sell their point of view like Christians do. Atheists do not promise rich rewards in after life to those who believe in Atheism (like Christians and Muslims do), Atheists do not threaten non believers with eternal torture in the lake of fire, in the pits of Hell (like Christians and Muslims do), Atheists have not killed non Atheists because they wouldn’t convert to Atheism (like Christians and Muslims have, they have killed millions because they would not convert to Christianity or Islam).

Give them time. It's a fairly new religion.

 

[AnnaG]

Give them time. It's a fairly new religion.

lol
That reminds me of a saying I heard once (or read): "atheism is a religion like 'off' is a tv channel". It's funny. :lol:

I'm going for a swim. Bloody hot here today. 42 to be exact.

 

[Cannuck]

When the TV's off, it doesn't try to sell you anything....unlike Atheists.

 

[Unforgiven]

He could get this tattoo!!

Oh Kerrie you bubbly nymph of a girl, that would be copyright infringment.
Plus Durka told me gerryh already has a tattoo. He sent this pic to me during a heated discussion of nipple height rulings.

The hands are rumoured to be those of Elbarto. 8O

 

[Spade]

The Ten commandments were plagiarized from Hammurabi's Code.
EAWC Anthology: Hammurabi's Code of Laws

 

[Spade]

Of course, Judaism, the Orthodox, Catholics, most Protestants all have different lists for the Ten Commandments. It is really not a list of ten.
Judaism 101: Aseret ha-Dibrot: The "Ten Commandments"

 

[MHz]

He wanted some way of finding concrete, touchable proof, which is not available at this time.

Then he should have followed the instruction given on how to get God to enter your life.

NT Lords Prayer is step one.

It is like a name being called in todays world. Even with the amount of noise about the throne these days (before tribulation) the words of our prayers still are heard. (the alter of coals in Re:4&5). The day of action is a day that cannot be stopped once started. If it could be done today (God saving people) then the full measure of prophecy must follow

That part never becomes 'vain repetitions' as God used that same method to talk to the Prophet"s so they could write words meant just for 'a future generation, it is known as calling somebody by name. Even an atheist uses that method, or at least I assume he does). When you speak to a room of people you call out a name before the message is sent, those people will turn and listen. To date that cannot have possibly have been fulfilled in the most extreme of renderings of Scripture.

One recent post mentioned idols in the Churches and in the homes of tha 'believers'. The Bride of Christ is the one who does but does not speak. She obeys the voice of her master. Even one picture hanging on your wall is more than enough to convict you of being in sin before your Father. (covered by grace BTW) The mirror on earth is the respect we have for our natural parents, even with their human faults.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

What if the Ten Commandments where written today? What would they look like?

That is easy to speculate, Ron. First four Commandments will be out. First will be considered as too divisive, second would be considered nonsense (not make a graven image? Why not?), the third Commandment will be considered too hypocritical (even many Christians take God’s name in vain) and the fourth Commandment (no Sunday shopping) will be considered too inconvenient.

From the rest of the six, I think most would survive, they are mostly common sense commandments (although one could question the fifth one, honour and respect have to be earned and cannot be given as a matter of right, perhaps the fifth would be modified somewhat).