Gay Rights And The Bible

[MHz]

I think the gods sit around their heavenly pub, downing some heavenly beer, watching televangelists and laughing their genitals off.

By saying that does God now have the right to discard your life for (to Him) a very short time? He could have clenched teeth and tapping fingers. Then again you might not feel this way about your own children if they should ever be stolen from you. Now without this verse (and the two that echo that same theme) you would never have known just what God says He will be doing during a 'pause before the action'.

Zec:8:2:
Thus saith the LORD of hosts;
I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy,
and I was jealous for her with great fury.

In a lackluster situation there would be no need for speed, yet that is exactly what happens. People with vain imaginations about God might very well be included as being 'them' the group in this verse.

Zep:1:18:
Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath;
but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy:
for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If there is a God (& I'm not saying there is or isn't one), I wonder what his/her opinion would be with respect to organized religion?

I think that would depend on what attributes a person ascribes to god, and the person's own attributes; I'd expect people to project their values, wishes, and expectations onto a deity. If the god in question is the usual character envisioned by the major monotheisms, omnipotent, omniscient, and all the rest of it, he could hardly be surprised or chagrined by anything that happens, he's known all along what people would do and presumably it's all part of the plan. Logic requires that he would approve of it in all its manifestations, it must have some purpose we're not aware of, despite its diversity and inconsistency, and the harm it often does. That's the answer I always get when I ask the seriously religious to explain why things are the way they are. It amounts to saying there are things it's not given to us to understand, but there are reasons for them. That's always struck me as a refusal to answer, a retreat into mysticism and ignorance, and it's never satisfied me.

On the other hand, if the deity's a little more limited, more like a devoted parent trying to get the kids off to a good start so they can make good lives for themselves, but not really in control of events, I think he'd be, at best, surprised and disappointed by organized religion, and at worst repelled, depending on what the followers of any particular sect get up to. But as I indicated would happen at the beginning, that's just me projecting my own views onto him. I don't know any way to avoid that, I can't judge anything except by my own values, and I suspect your question is really unanswerable any other way. And I suppose that means the question I really answered is, "If you were the deity, what would your opinion of organized religion be?" It gets confusing though. As an atheist I consider there to be no basis in reality for religion at all, organized or not. I think it's all a delusion, but if I were the deity I'd know for an irrefutable fact that that's not true. Can't quite get my head around that one.

 

[MHz]

It amounts to saying there are things it's not given to us to understand, but there are reasons for them. That's always struck me as a refusal to answer, a retreat into mysticism and ignorance, and it's never satisfied me.

Maybe it is the person you ask doesn't know what God's answer to your question is. That means he doesn't have a verse to direct you to. If he can offer you one or more it is then it is up to you to do the journey and confirm the 'answer'.
If no reference is given you have to do a bit more work in finding the answer in Scripture all by yourself. Your question might not be fully answered but by the end of the research (reading all the verses that don't answer your question) you do have more info than you had when you first came up with a specific question.

 

[AnnaG]

You're funny Anna. Comprehension is no problem for me, neither is critical analysis and clearly, you are no anthropologist.

Again, best of luck in your pretend calling.

BTW - Thanks for the reference list... Google comes in real handy sometimes.

Opinion again? You really are monotonous and redundant. *yawns*

 

[AnnaG]

You have your own religion Cliffy. It's called Secular Humanism. ..a maudling acceptance of all of the frauds perpertrated by modern culture, the Culture of Death. It's primary characteristics is a commitment to self, a rejection of responsibility to God, or to any objective moral order and natural law.. a radical individualism cloaked in a rationale of moral relativism.

It is as self righteous, puritanical, and persecutorial of 'heresy' as any religion that has ever existed. It is actuated by facile lies. It is manifested in a legitimization and celebration of abortion, decadence, homosexuality.. scourges of life and the human spirit. Where it gains ascedancy, as it has in our civilization, it produces a disintegrating society, riddled with disease, corruption, death.

Your views are not unique, free of dogma, and servitude as you suggest.. they are really most conventional and unquestioning of the ethos of our times.

Werll, one thing is for sure, your diction is a little above average even if you can't spell properly. As for your analysis, it's only another opinion. So far, Cliffy is less of a hypocrite than most of the Christians I've seen here, you included, if you indeed call yourself one.
See? No-one's perfect, even you.

 

[captain morgan]

Opinion again? You really are monotonous and redundant. *yawns*

... Yet likely quite accurate

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Your question might not be fully answered...

That's exactly my point, you've just given me the same answer everybody else does, which is not an answer at all. Epicurus posed the key questions over 2200 years ago, and there's still no answer:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

 

[AnnaG]

Well, my question had nothing to do with Christ or how he feels about certain subject. Christ isn't a universal theme to all religions, and My
question had to do with Gods opinion of organized religion.

I was asking you and the other members here for your opinions, not
Christ's, or the authors of the Bible, or any other religious documents.
That's all.

That's your own opinion. That's Cool. Thank You.

I cannot say about anyone or their god, but I can tell you if I were a god, I would not judge people by whether they believe in me, Bastet, Tuatha-de-Danaan, Indra, or Mudjekeewis; nor by wealth or some such shallow idea, nor by their mistakes. I would judge people by their action and intent.

 

[AnnaG]

Frustrating when someone, that doesn't have a clue who you are or know anything about you, decides to make ignorant generalizations, eh?

roflmao Isn't it, though, Mr. Pot?

 

[AnnaG]

You lead by example very well.

Thx

hehe Yet you seem curiously impervious to learning. Funny how people differ, isn't it?

 

[AnnaG]

By saying that does God now have the right to discard your life for (to Him) a very short time? He could have clenched teeth and tapping fingers. Then again you might not feel this way about your own children if they should ever be stolen from you. Now without this verse (and the two that echo that same theme) you would never have known just what God says He will be doing during a 'pause before the action'.

Zec:8:2:
Thus saith the LORD of hosts;
I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy,
and I was jealous for her with great fury.

In a lackluster situation there would be no need for speed, yet that is exactly what happens. People with vain imaginations about God might very well be included as being 'them' the group in this verse.

Zep:1:18:
Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath;
but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy:
for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Now, how omnipotent can a god be if it gets jealous? That's just inane.

 

[Cliffy]

By saying that does God now have the right to discard your life for (to Him) a very short time? He could have clenched teeth and tapping fingers. Then again you might not feel this way about your own children if they should ever be stolen from you. Now without this verse (and the two that echo that same theme) you would never have known just what God says He will be doing during a 'pause before the action'.

Zec:8:2:
Thus saith the LORD of hosts;
I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy,
and I was jealous for her with great fury.

In a lackluster situation there would be no need for speed, yet that is exactly what happens. People with vain imaginations about God might very well be included as being 'them' the group in this verse.

Zep:1:18:
Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath;
but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy:
for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

OOOO!!! I am shaking in my boots! You are a twit if you think I am afraid of your god. In fact, I have been challenging that psychopath to come down here and tell me face to face what he is going to do to me for not bowing down and kissing his ass for the past 45 years and the coward has not showed up yet.

 

[AnnaG]

... Yet likely quite accurate

And yet another opinion. Keep going, you might get an opinion right yet.

 

[captain morgan]

And yet another opinion. Keep going, you might get an opinion right yet.

Anna,

Your focus on my 'opinion' is laughable based on the fact that any interpretable elements of your area of focus is entirely based on opinion and subjectivity. Yeah, sure, you can point to artifacts, but in the end, you can only guess, can't you?

You can post all of the references you like, but iultimately, it's still speculation at best... That's the big laugh about the social sciences isn't it? - Sure, you can try and pretend that you have statistics and models to back it all up, but in the end, it's nothing more than opinion. That said, your accusations of others' opinions are pretty shallow.

BTW - An anthropologist would know that. Maybe you skipped that class.

 

[AnnaG]

Anna,

Your focus on my 'opinion' is laughable based on the fact that any interpretable elements of your area of focus is entirely based on opinion and subjectivity. Yeah, sure, you can point to artifacts, but in the end, you can only guess, can't you?

You can post all of the references you like, but iultimately, it's still speculation at best... That's the big laugh about the social sciences isn't it? - Sure, you can try and pretend that you have statistics and models to back it all up, but in the end, it's nothing more than opinion. That said, your accusations of others' opinions are pretty shallow.

According to you, but then you are your own authority aren't you? No-one else's opinion carries any weight at all with you. That is what makes YOU laughable.
Anyway, you are right, it is guesswork, but it is EDUCATED guesswork, not just empty speculation which you seem to be just crammed full of.

BTW - An anthropologist would know that. Maybe you skipped that class.

Nope. I didn't. Read the above.
BTW, I don't think you'd know a social science from a avocado.
So, having said that, I'm done with you like a disposable toy.

 

[captain morgan]

According to you, but then you are your own authority aren't you? No-one else's opinion carries any weight at all with you. That is what makes YOU laughable.

Those would be your assumptions Anna... Didn't you learn anything from your earlier tirades?.. Apparently not.

Regardless, you might apply some of those finely honed 'social sciences' observation skills you have. All that I have done is question your opinions that you have offered as fact - nothing more.

Regardless, it is no surprise that your entire argument is based on questioning the precepts of others rather than providing anything concrete.. That is the default strategy that any of the social sciences must rely.

Anyway, you are right, it is guesswork, but it is EDUCATED guesswork, not just empty speculation which you seem to be just crammed full of.

Ohhh.. Educated guesses.. Well, that's much different isn't it?

 

[Cliffy]

AnnaG,

As an anthropologist, have you studied the culture and history of the West Kootenays, in particular the Interior Salish tribe known as the Sinixt? I am an amateur anthropologist of sorts (no formal education) but I have been collecting data on these people since I moved here. Just wondering if we could compare notes.

 

[AnnaG]

Actually no, my people came from northern Manitoba so I'm more interested in culture there. Main interest is in cultures even older than aboriginal, though. My wish when I was young was that I follow Mead and the Leakeys. (please don't laugh, I was young and full of dreams of becoming as famous as they lol) I did pick up a little bit about Okanagan peoples, but then I spent a lot longer time there than here. I doubt I could share anything that you haven't already discovered. Hubby has a couple books but they are books of history and not particularly cultural history even.

 

[AnnaG]

Morgan, here's an opinion for you:
I don't think you are here to debate. You offer nothing but opinion and snide remarks about what other people post. You provide no information and nothing that substantiates your opinion. That puts you in a lower class than any Bible quoting sheeple as they at least use THAT to try and substantiate themselves.

lol I think you just go to forums to spew comments that you know will rile or disgust people. You're likely a gynephobic, homophobic, misogynistic, bitter, lonely little person sitting at your pc in your mommy's basement trying to feel like you have some kind of power over people.
There. Now you can have the last word or not. And you can continue sidetracking the threads by nitpicking at the irrelevant and trivial points in other's posts if you like, I don't care. And yes, educated opinions are a little better than uneducated opinions, but I don't expect you would be able to understand that.
Bye

 

[captain morgan]

Think whatever you like. The reality is that you talk the talk but can't walk the walk... In the end, that's all I've done is challenge you to do so and apparently this is not what you're used to. All of your commentary is based on opinion, which is all anyone can really offer on a topic like this, but somehow you have the idea that your educated guesses qualify as fact and you don't like it when you're called to task. On a side note, I couldn't help but chuckle at your enlightened comment about 'sidetracking' threads. What you haven't been able to fathom is that my questioning you is specifically focused on the very basis of your sad input on this subject, certainly that is the most relevant element of this topic.... But then again, that's highly uncomfortable for the person that knows the questioning is entirely valid.

Now that this is out in the open, all you have left are personal attacks, I really like the gynephobic label that you've attached - it substantiates the notion that you're without any valid or progressive input in any way, shape or form - For one that has taken the line you have taken, that is the only solution you are left with.

You're just a pretender Anna, and not a very good one at that.