Whose death deserves respect?

[Francis2004]

wow. It never fails to amaze me how common decency becomes the first casualty of forum interaction.

Death is rarely about the deceased. They're gone, what the hell do they care who says what about them? In the end, their lives will be defined by how they lived them anyway.

As for gerry - I know his style is to play devil's advocate, and I've yet to see this tactic play out the way he intends, but I respect his motives on this issue - like it or not you guys, he's completely right. A double standard is a double standard no matter how you try and justify it.

Zan, this has little to do with death and much more with how the threads were being discussed..

And by the way gerry is not the only issue here, he just happen to be the one who took the hit in my thread while I was away on Canada Day..

The issue I see greatest here is the use of foul language used and personal attacks. If you condone these as well as other on this Forum then the few who use them will stay and control the board while many of your good posters will leave and you will be left with transients that will come and go and spammers.

While everyone is defending, and being defensives of people and themselves, the issues are not being addressed.

While I don't want anyone banned and wonder why people like Arrow & Praxius have been banned for so long yet some do much worse and have been banned for only one week ?

 

[karrie]

banning someone over swear words is more juvenile than the poster using the words in the first place. ****ing stupid bull**** imo.

Censorship of expression.

People don't get banned around here over a cuss word or two. They get banned over sustained attempts to cause trouble and lack of attempts to contribute. Avro did just that. And Praxius had declared his intent to do just that from what I recall.

Gerry, like him or not, contributes. There is a message behind the stir up he caused here, even if you guys refuse to hear it because of the words he used, and your personal dislike of him. Plain and simple.

 

[VanIsle]

I think you have an issue with hero worship of Hollywood celebrities.

I assume it's okay for me to comment on a cancer victim if I've had a family member die from cancer, or else you wouldn't have asked me that question.

Really! I don't know most of the Hollywood celebrities. I have an issue with respect for the dead and dying. It doesn't have to be from cancer. Comment on anything that suits you. I just hope that you can do it with respect in regard to someone who has just died. Is it that hard to show respect? No wonder the world is upside down and backwards.

 

[Unforgiven]

wow. It never fails to amaze me how common decency becomes the first casualty of forum interaction.

Shut up Latoya and get off my Internets! :lol:

No, the aftermath that accompanies death isn't about the dead. They're done. It's about the living.... the ones left behind who are in the midst of grief. Anyone who's had to learn how to take the next step of their lives with a gaping hole where a loved one used to be will immediately recall how surreal and raw that time is. Comments like I've read here serve no positive purpose but to pour salt on fresh wounds.

So you shouldn't look for a thread about Michael Jackson when you know there are people who may just post a joke or two about it. Rather, you should be looking for a site for grieving about him where all comments are viewed by a moderator before they are published to the forum so no one gets mangled in the carnage that is reality.

Think the family and friends of these people won't stumble upon the comments I've read here? I wouldn't want to take that chance, and I'm shocked anyone would.

Yeah I think I saw Pa Jackson posting in the Cage about Nuggler a while ago so you're probably right.

Grief is the same for all of us - it's possibly one of the most painful experiences any of us will ever go through. And even the most insensitive person I know wouldn't make a point of saying any of the horrid things that I've read here in the presence of fresh grief in real life. So why is it suddenly ok behind a cloak of anonymity? Is that the only thin line that separates us from being complete assholes??

I know, you should see the nose jokes about Karl Malden all over the place. I know seeing one made me pull over on the 401 for a weep. You do understand that I used to watch a show he was on once in a while back in the early 80s don't you? Yes we were that close!

There are people in this world I don't like.

Now Zan! What happens if they happen to read this? They could be anywhere you know. Watching and waiting for someone to say something that might be interpreted to be a slight against them. And at a time like this.

Yet I can't fathom going to a place where people are gathered to remember them for the sole purpose of dissing them. Never mind how disrespectful it is to the dead - it's disrespectful to their living loved ones. More than that, it's just damn cruel.

I didn't even get an MJ armband when I logged in here. I think Andem has gone too far this time with the out and out mocking of his martyrdom! Granted this is Michael Jackson central and I had initially registered here and logged on a couple of years ago so that I could be positioned so well to really stick it to his family when the time came. I just roll that way.

Some people need to give their heads a shake before they hit submit. You don't have to utter out loud or in print every nasty thought that crawls across your mind.

Yeah, some people do. Of course it's not mandatory to have a breakdown should someone accused child molester/king of Pop kick the bucket. I am not sure how it is some people make it out of bed each morning knowing that some where someone is going to buy the farm and all the people that love them, are going to feel bad for a while.

As for gerry - I know his style is to play devil's advocate, and I've yet to see this tactic play out the way he intends, but I respect his motives on this issue - like it or not you guys, he's completely right. A double standard is a double standard no matter how you try and justify it.

So this is no different than making fun of my wife passing away? I'm afraid I have to call bull**** my dear. Michael Jackson hasn't posted a damn thing on this board ever. Neither has anyone in his family. I expect that they learned to have a tough skin after all the molestation jokes each time he was accused of it and settled any litigation against him out of court.

Sarcasm aside, you're usually far more level than you present in this post. He was a celebrity and public figures like him are open to all the roses and rotten tomatoes tossed his way. I would suggest that he would take them all rather than missout on being famous any day. If it makes you feel so upset to read jokes and negative remarks about public figures, then I suggest you turn off the dam thing and enjoy the summer.

 

[VanIsle]

banning someone over swear words is more juvenile than the poster using the words in the first place. ****ing stupid bull**** imo.

Censorship of expression. That's not censorship of expression. Do you feel better now that you have those words out of your system?

People don't get banned around here over a cuss word or two. They get banned over sustained attempts to cause trouble and lack of attempts to contribute. Avro did just that. And Praxius had declared his intent to do just that from what I recall.

Gerry, like him or not, contributes. There is a message behind the stir up he caused here, even if you guys refuse to hear it because of the words he used, and your personal dislike of him. Plain and simple.

Plain and simple - just the way things should be - without yours (and everyone's)foul language. Gerry contributes trouble. Nothing more and nothing less. This message is definetly about the stir up he caused and his lack of respect for anyone here or anywhere. You protecting his right to what he has to say is no different that me standing up for SJP but at least I'm standing up for someone who is respectful, doesn't use foul language and would never dis-respect the dead.

 

[darkbeaver]

Respect for the dead and dying is in short supply in our world, sometimes we shower it on one at the expense of the many, this is the way it is with popcult royalty.

 

[Cannuck]

And even the most insensitive person I know wouldn't make a point of saying any of the horrid things that I've read here in the presence of fresh grief in real life. So why is it suddenly ok behind a cloak of anonymity? Is that the only thin line that separates us from being complete assholes??

I completely disagree. I was at the local pub a few days after MJ died and the same types of things were being said there, in public. Anonymity has little to do with it. It is acceptable to joke about it because it is not a personal issue. Some people will make Jeffery Dahlmer jokes because that didn't personally affect them but the generally don't make 9/11 jokes. September 11th touched them in a way that Dahlmer didn't.

As for gerry - I know his style is to play devil's advocate, and I've yet to see this tactic play out the way he intends, but I respect his motives on this issue - like it or not you guys, he's completely right. A double standard is a double standard no matter how you try and justify it.

I agree.

 

[Outta here]

Zan, this has little to do with death and much more with how the threads were being discussed.

Well then colour me illiterate. I could have sworn the title of this thread was "Whose death deserves respect?"

I commented on the issue of respect.... and who it is exactly that we're disrespecting when we diss the dead.

 

[Cannuck]

You protecting his right to what he has to say is no different that me standing up for SJP but at least I'm standing up for someone who is respectful, doesn't use foul language and would never dis-respect the dead.

You embarrass yourself. Joey is anything but respectful. You are a major league hypocrite. Maybe he can start a thread about you.

 

[L Gilbert]

If someone feels offended by my hubby calling MJ "weird", I apologize for that. He was only stating how we both feel, however. Both of us have respect for the man's talent, but as a person, we lost a lot of respect when he held his child over a balcony railing. To us that is just inexcusably weird, doped up or not.
Condolences to his family.
A.

 

[karrie]

Well then colour me illiterate. I could have sworn the title of this thread was "Whose death deserves respect?"

I commented on the issue of respect.... and who it is exactly that we're disrespecting when we diss the dead.

Definitely not illiterate Zan. You got the point. Just like you got gerry's point while others are willingly letting it zoom over their heads as they focus on such petty trivialities as the words chosen.

And yes VI, I feel better having gotten 8 asterisks out of my system.

Oh geez, Nugg, where's our ****ing **** thread?

 

[karrie]

If someone feels offended by my hubby calling MJ "weird", I apologize for that. He was only stating how we both feel, however. Both of us have respect for the man's talent, but as a person, we lost a lot of respect when he held his child over a balcony railing. To us that is just inexcusably weird, doped up or not.
Condolences to his family.
A.

No worries on my part Anna. I used it as an example of a double standard, not to point a finger at Les.

Hey, when are you going to get your own user id? :smile:

 

[Outta here]

Sarcasm aside, you're usually far more level than you present in this post. He was a celebrity and public figures like him are open to all the roses and rotten tomatoes tossed his way. I would suggest that he would take them all rather than missout on being famous any day. If it makes you feel so upset to read jokes and negative remarks about public figures, then I suggest you turn off the dam thing and enjoy the summer.

lolll Unf - I haven't been around a whole lot lately, and to be honest I think I was the last one on the planet to hear about MJ's death. I won't go into my personal thoughts on the man, it's irrelevent here.

If I left the impression that I'm personally offended by anything I've read here, let me correct that immediately. I'm not impressed by celebrity but I do think that the issue of respect should be held to a firmer standard under certain circumstances - regardless of whose death it is.

If anything, you could accuse me of finding it difficult to keep up with what I perceive to be devolving standards of decency. But I promise not let it ruin my summer.

 

[VanIsle]

wow. It never fails to amaze me how common decency becomes the first casualty of forum interaction.

Death is rarely about the deceased. They're gone, what the hell do they care who says what about them? In the end, their lives will be defined by how they lived them anyway.

No, the aftermath that accompanies death isn't about the dead. They're done. It's about the living.... the ones left behind who are in the midst of grief. Anyone who's had to learn how to take the next step of their lives with a gaping hole where a loved one used to be will immediately recall how surreal and raw that time is. Comments like I've read here serve no positive purpose but to pour salt on fresh wounds.

Think the family and friends of these people won't stumble upon the comments I've read here? I wouldn't want to take that chance, and I'm shocked anyone would.

Grief is the same for all of us - it's possibly one of the most painful experiences any of us will ever go through. And even the most insensitive person I know wouldn't make a point of saying any of the horrid things that I've read here in the presence of fresh grief in real life. So why is it suddenly ok behind a cloak of anonymity? Is that the only thin line that separates us from being complete assholes??

There are people in this world I don't like. Yet I can't fathom going to a place where people are gathered to remember them for the sole purpose of dissing them. Never mind how disrespectful it is to the dead - it's disrespectful to their living loved ones. More than that, it's just damn cruel.

Some people need to give their heads a shake before they hit submit. You don't have to utter out loud or in print every nasty thought that crawls across your mind.

As for gerry - I know his style is to play devil's advocate, and I've yet to see this tactic play out the way he intends, but I respect his motives on this issue - like it or not you guys, he's completely right. A double standard is a double standard no matter how you try and justify it.

Is that the only thin line that separates us from being complete assholes?? YES!
There is no double standard between what he said about Farrah Fawcett and what others said about M.Jackson. He is not playing the devil's advocate. I'm very familiar with people who apparently like to play that role and it never works. It always causes a major dis-agreement. It was not the time or the place for such "play" anyway. You had a great well thought out post going until you defended gerry. What you had to say made great sense. In regard to gerry, since he should be able to see that way of thinking doesn't work - why doesn't he just stop it. People who do that cause nothing but grief for those who are around them frequently. It goes beyond tiresome and it never quits. Who needs the devil's advocate anyway.

 

[Cannuck]

Jesus ****ing Christ Karrie, could you ****ing well tone down the mother****ing language?

 

[VanIsle]

You know, everyone was getting along on these forums really quite well until the devil's advocate spoke up and until Cannuck joined in.

 

[Cannuck]

You better report me then.

 

[Outta here]

You had a great well thought out post going until you defended gerry. What you had to say made great sense.

Thanks VI, but as long as my posts make sense to me, I'm gonna go with 'em.

I didn't say I agreed with gerry's tactics, and it's unfortunate that when he's right, his passion dictates his demeanor and his point gets lost in the presentation... and his reputation often precludes people taking what he has to say seriously.

He did go for the shock value here, and it did work. Unfortunately, people got so busy looking in the direction they were pointing their fingers at, that they forgot to look at the three pointing back at themselves.

 

[Outta here]

You know, everyone was getting along on these forums really quite well until the devil's advocate spoke up and until Cannuck joined in.

oh for heaven's sake! You can't seriously mean this can you?? 8O

 

[Outta here]

Definitely not illiterate Zan. You got the point. Just like you got gerry's point while others are willingly letting it zoom over their heads as they focus on such petty trivialities as the words chosen.

And yes VI, I feel better having gotten 8 asterisks out of my system.

Oh geez, Nugg, where's our ****ing **** thread?

When ya find the f***ing thing, link me.