Hmmm... those politicians do seem a little strange. Could be.
But then they can't be bastards, can they.
Liberals Preparing For A Summer Election
- Thread starter Liberalman
- Start date
Hmmm... those politicians do seem a little strange. Could be.
But then they can't be bastards, can they.
I like an erection in the summer.
Indeed that is the point, Juan. Getting rid of the deficit is never easy, it involves a lot of pain. The proper thing to do is to spread the pain around, make sure that everybody sacrifices to balance the budget (hence the need for tax increase and spending cuts) and cause as little hardship as possible, while balancing the budget.
When Chrétien tried to balance the budget, plenty of people cried foul, many people were not happy with the service cuts. When McGuinty raised taxes and cut spending here in Ontario, the popularity of Liberals fell through the floor. A few months after election, Liberals were intensely unpopular (later when people saw that McGuinty actually got the deficit under control, then Liberals became popular again).
Balancing the budget means aggravating a lot of people. Any service that is cut is going to affect somebody, and that somebody is going to howl with rage. That is why I said that it is quite possible that the government which tries to balance the budget may well be only one term government, and it can only be done by a majority government (in a majority government, people may howl as much as the want, it will still get done if the PM has enough resolve).
But a majority government does not necessarily have to mean a majority party. It could just as easily be a majority co-alition of parties or even independents.
Also, a responsible government doesn't just cut and slash randomly, blindly, with his eyes closed. He identifies those areas that are least likely to hurt the people. After all, ill thought out cuts could end up costing more in the long run. Let's look at the cuts of recent governments. The military budget has proven a sacred cow even though it's the one that brings in the fewest dividends to the economy. I agree we need a military for self defense, but it could be achieved just as effectively through a shared military force at less cost, and if it limited itself to defensive wars only or only when requested to go by the UN, that would reduce much of the burden on the military too.
I just got to thinking S.J. if the politician's salaries were adjusted monthly and formulated to the deficit, the deficit just may get under control a whole lot faster.
Actually, a low salary might attract better candidates, those who care for Canada, not money.
That may not be such a bad thing, but you'd get the confident ones that are competent chomping at the bit.
I have no idea what Bullroney did for it. It's not a usual habit of Cons to ignore the military, though. It started going down hill when Turdeau got in and and only under pressure would any liberal do something about it. I read one time that Bullroney's family was almost entirely liberal, so I am pretty sure Bullroney himself was a Glib in a blue suit (blue being the Con color).
BTW, Canada is still broke; almost half a trillion $ broke. Martin started the debt clock rolling back and Harper had kept it rolling back till this economic mess sprung up.
So you can be blind to the nasty crap the Glibs did if you like, but it won't change the facts.
Pol's salaries aren't that great. It's all the frills they get that's attractive. Nowhere else can people vote themselves raises. Nowhere else can they work 6 years and retire. And so on. And what does Canada get for all this money? Screwed in the ear.
That is only one category, Machjo. I can think of several other categories.
- Rich people will run for Parliament. They don’t need the money, and those who want to have power over other peoples’ live may find it attractive to pass some laws and impose their morality on others.
- Those how have very little education, have no other skills to earn significant amount of money will be interested in the Parliament. After all, this is one of the very few jobs which do not need any qualifications for it (other than being a citizen).
- Bored housewife types. The house wife who has a rich husband, a nanny to look after her babies and nothing else to do all day except perhaps play tennis (and have an affair with her tennis coach) may think it would be a hoot to run for Parliament.
- Septuagenarians. The old man, who is retired, has nothing else to do, who always tries to tell anybody who will listen how the world has gone to the dogs (anybody who will buy him a drink, of course) may find it attractive to run for Parliament and try to put the world right (and perhaps get several free drinks in the process).
- Religious zealots. To them, brining God’s kingdom to Canada is more important than money. And their church probably would support them while they are the MPs.
Now, would these type of people make better MPs than the current lot? Somehow I doubt it.
When I asked what Mulroney did for the military I was answering someone who was down on the Liberals for neglecting the military.
You know Gil, it doesn't do your argument any good when you start calling the opposition names like "Glibs". And don't try to pawn off Mulroney on the Liberals. I'm sure they don't want him either but he ran under the Conservative banner and he was supported by the conservatives for ten years at least so you can't just say aw he was a Liberal when he clearly wasn't.
Martin did nothing of the sort. Martin inherited a debt and a deficit from your friend Mulroney and he did the responsible thing. He cleared the deficit and tried to pay down the debt. The Liberals handed Harper a ten billion dollar surplus. If we are in an economic mess, it was Harper that made the mess.
This whole discussion is circular.
The facts are:
Trudeau started the deficit/debt problem.
Mulroney continued it.
Chretien/Martin turned it around.
Harper has led us back into a deficit.
There are things each could have done differently do lessen the impact, or heighten the impact of the economic conditions around them.
While I don't blame Harper for the recession - I do blame him for needlessly spending money on ill-thought out bailouts, raising the cost of government by 2x the rate of inflation over the last few years, for reckless tax cuts when there was still a mountain of debt to pay, and for not taking any responsibility for any of it.
As I'Ve stated before I don't believe in Gov't. bailouts- never worked at Ocean Falls. Business has to succeed or fail on it's own.
As someone who views politics as a spectator sport somewhat akin to the feeding of the Christians to the lions it certainly should make for an interesting spectacle if Iggy does decide to pull the plug.
I originally thought that a late summer , early fall election was in the cards.
Lately,however, I am beginning to wonder if the Count has the stones for it.
The pressure from the rank and file Liberal party membership to run is certainly there.
After all continuing to vote like trained seals for every Conservative bill has got to be getting depressing if not downright demoralizing for the Liberals.
Polling shows the Liberal party is up and the Conservative party is down.
So thats a huge plus for the LIb's.
However if you poll which politician is the peoples choice for the PM slot Canadians are favoring Harper over Iggy.
Bummer for Iggy there.
And if you were to poll Canadians about actually going to an election the answer is; no thanks.
And if you polled them about penalizing a party that forces them to go to the polls, again, Iggy would suffer.
What to do?
Harper is a cold, controlling and somewhat unlikable Prime Minister.
He is not terribly popular within party ranks and tends to run a one man show which I feel does not really benefit the Conservative Party of Canada in the long haul.
And while he is doing extremely well on the International circuit at home Harper has made some horrible mistakes.
Take for example the old attempted coup of Canada by the triumvirate( Lib's,NDP and Bloc).
If the roles had been reversed and the LIbs were in a minority leadership situation, Chretien would have let that little joke of a charade play right out, he would have branded all participating parties involved as traitors to the country, Canadians would have agreed and he would have then forced an election.
And he would have won an easy majority out of it.
Conversely Harper botched it completely, proving once and for all that he is nowhere near as skilled a political knife fighter as Chretien once was.
But still Harper polls as the most capable leader presently available.
He is the status quo.
In 2010 Harper can stack the Senate, and that means he can pass any non fiscal bill he wants.
In 2014 the Federal electoral seats and ridings are going to be re-jigged to compensate for population growth and it is widely assumed that it will benefit the Conservatives over the Liberals.
Keep in mind that now the Conservative party is the true national party of Canada and the Liberals are a powerful regional party with their support mainly located in the GTA and purchased on a temporary basis from the mercenary Quebecois as needed.
As a result of the above the pressure is mounting on Iggy to run and soon.
The Cons have 140 odd seats, the Libs have 70 give or take.
In an election Its quite possible the Cons would loose a few seats, the Libs would gain a few and then we would have another Conservative minority government as a result.
And that would finish Iggy.
The Count has said publicly that he will only give Canada six years to coronate him leader and so if he blows a fall election he is probably gone back to his real home (the United States).
The Liberals are still broke although to be honest Iggy has dredged in a few more sheckles on the rubber chicken circuit.
But the cold reality is they are still far too broke to help out troopers like Dion who will probably now remain in debt for the rest of his natural life.
And thats how the Liberals are repaying party loyalty and honesty these days when money is involved.
The Hill Times and other inside sources report widespread unhappiness and factional loyalties are still rife within the Liberal party.
The Martinite, Chritienite lines are still drawn in the sand.
And left wing media is slowly starting to turn on Iggy as a rudderless and issueless member of the expecting elite.
Iggy needs to bust a move.
Lets just imagine what would happen if the Conservatives loose a huge chunk of seats, the liberals win in a ton of ridings and then what happens?
Its basically a draw.
And that would be a total disaster.
The GG could and probably would insist on a coalition government if the Liberals and the Conservative were within 8 or 9 seats of each other.
Can you imagine?
During a recession?
There would be yet another election within six months and the chances are the Liberals would be severely penalized for causing the whole mess.
In a fall election a Liberal majority would be virtually impossible.
The loyal party drones hope otherwise, but just look at the seats and ridings and where a potential change is possible.
The best the Liberals can hope for is a slim minority government.
But look at the potential downsides for the Liberals.
If they blow it and loose then they are utterly crippled.
And then Harper takes the Senate and gets the ridings in 2014.
So does Iggy have the stones?
I say no.
He will stall and vote right alongside the Conservatives and pray for a real showstopper to sideswipe the Con's .
And only then will he nut up and run.
Trex
I originally thought that a late summer , early fall election was in the cards.
Lately,however, I am beginning to wonder if the Count has the stones for it.
The pressure from the rank and file Liberal party membership to run is certainly there.
After all continuing to vote like trained seals for every Conservative bill has got to be getting depressing if not downright demoralizing for the Liberals.
Polling shows the Liberal party is up and the Conservative party is down.
So thats a huge plus for the LIb's.
However if you poll which politician is the peoples choice for the PM slot Canadians are favoring Harper over Iggy.
Bummer for Iggy there.
And if you were to poll Canadians about actually going to an election the answer is; no thanks.
And if you polled them about penalizing a party that forces them to go to the polls, again, Iggy would suffer.
What to do?
Harper is a cold, controlling and somewhat unlikable Prime Minister.
He is not terribly popular within party ranks and tends to run a one man show which I feel does not really benefit the Conservative Party of Canada in the long haul.
And while he is doing extremely well on the International circuit at home Harper has made some horrible mistakes.
Take for example the old attempted coup of Canada by the triumvirate( Lib's,NDP and Bloc).
If the roles had been reversed and the LIbs were in a minority leadership situation, Chretien would have let that little joke of a charade play right out, he would have branded all participating parties involved as traitors to the country, Canadians would have agreed and he would have then forced an election.
And he would have won an easy majority out of it.
Conversely Harper botched it completely, proving once and for all that he is nowhere near as skilled a political knife fighter as Chretien once was.
But still Harper polls as the most capable leader presently available.
He is the status quo.
In 2010 Harper can stack the Senate, and that means he can pass any non fiscal bill he wants.
In 2014 the Federal electoral seats and ridings are going to be re-jigged to compensate for population growth and it is widely assumed that it will benefit the Conservatives over the Liberals.
Keep in mind that now the Conservative party is the true national party of Canada and the Liberals are a powerful regional party with their support mainly located in the GTA and purchased on a temporary basis from the mercenary Quebecois as needed.
As a result of the above the pressure is mounting on Iggy to run and soon.
The Cons have 140 odd seats, the Libs have 70 give or take.
In an election Its quite possible the Cons would loose a few seats, the Libs would gain a few and then we would have another Conservative minority government as a result.
And that would finish Iggy.
The Count has said publicly that he will only give Canada six years to coronate him leader and so if he blows a fall election he is probably gone back to his real home (the United States).
The Liberals are still broke although to be honest Iggy has dredged in a few more sheckles on the rubber chicken circuit.
But the cold reality is they are still far too broke to help out troopers like Dion who will probably now remain in debt for the rest of his natural life.
And thats how the Liberals are repaying party loyalty and honesty these days when money is involved.
The Hill Times and other inside sources report widespread unhappiness and factional loyalties are still rife within the Liberal party.
The Martinite, Chritienite lines are still drawn in the sand.
And left wing media is slowly starting to turn on Iggy as a rudderless and issueless member of the expecting elite.
Iggy needs to bust a move.
Lets just imagine what would happen if the Conservatives loose a huge chunk of seats, the liberals win in a ton of ridings and then what happens?
Its basically a draw.
And that would be a total disaster.
The GG could and probably would insist on a coalition government if the Liberals and the Conservative were within 8 or 9 seats of each other.
Can you imagine?
During a recession?
There would be yet another election within six months and the chances are the Liberals would be severely penalized for causing the whole mess.
In a fall election a Liberal majority would be virtually impossible.
The loyal party drones hope otherwise, but just look at the seats and ridings and where a potential change is possible.
The best the Liberals can hope for is a slim minority government.
But look at the potential downsides for the Liberals.
If they blow it and loose then they are utterly crippled.
And then Harper takes the Senate and gets the ridings in 2014.
So does Iggy have the stones?
I say no.
He will stall and vote right alongside the Conservatives and pray for a real showstopper to sideswipe the Con's .
And only then will he nut up and run.
Trex
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It's not a question of who has got the stones. Ignatieff has said that he wouldn't cause yet another election unless absolutely necessary. Ignatieff knows that the people are not ready for another election. There is another Nanos poll coming out I think, on Thursday. If that poll shows the Liberals to be in a majority situation, Harper should be very carful because I think his days as Conservative leader are numbered without him losing another election.
The polls showing Harper to be the most popular leader have not gotten him enough votes to even win a minority. That poll is changing as well.
The Liberals are moving up and by the Fall, they will likely have enough support to win a majority
There was no attempted coup. Parliament reacted to Harper's BS and Harper had to run to the GG to save his pathetic minority
Ignatieff has never said he would "go back to his real home". He is a university professor who is in demand. Harvard would give him his job back. I see nothing wrong with that.
I doubt the Conservatives would win a single seat in Quebec next election and their support in Ontario is dwindling. Let's face it, Harper is on the way out.
The polls showing Harper to be the most popular leader have not gotten him enough votes to even win a minority. That poll is changing as well.
The Liberals are moving up and by the Fall, they will likely have enough support to win a majority
There was no attempted coup. Parliament reacted to Harper's BS and Harper had to run to the GG to save his pathetic minority
Ignatieff has never said he would "go back to his real home". He is a university professor who is in demand. Harvard would give him his job back. I see nothing wrong with that.
I doubt the Conservatives would win a single seat in Quebec next election and their support in Ontario is dwindling. Let's face it, Harper is on the way out.