Can Ignatieff distance himself from his past?

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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So called Tory 'negative ads' are dead on
During the 2006 federal election, Michael Ignatieff, who had been lured back to Canada to run for the Liberals after 34 years abroad, made it quite clear in an interview with The Harvard Crimson newspaper just how dedicated he was to Canada.
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][/FONT]If he didn't win his Toronto riding, he said, he would move back to Massachusetts.
No great surprise there. After all, this is a man who continually referred to himself as an American, both in his speeches and his writing. In fact, in 2004, just one year before he was coaxed into coming north to grab a chance at his party's leadership, Ignatieff appeared on C-SPAN, the congressional cable channel, and said this:
"Look, this is America and you have to decide what kind of country you want. This is your country as much as it is mine."
At that time, by the way, Ignatieff was one of then president George W. Bush's strongest supporters of torture, the Iraq war and the Bush doctrine against terrorism on U.S. soil.
And now, just a few short years later, Ignatieff would have Canadians believe that Tory advertisements openly questioning his allegiance to his birth country are not only insulting to him, but to every Canadian who has ever lived or worked abroad.
What a hypocrite.
So too are his fellow Liberals, who are currently pretending to be outraged by those Tory ads.
Yet, during Ignatieff's first run at the leadership - the one where he actually contested the job and lost, as opposed to his second run, where he maneuvered his way into the job without having to run for it - Ignatieff's Liberal opponents where making exactly the same point as Prime Minister Stephen Harper is making now.
Bob Rae - then seen as Ignatieff's main opponent (that's before the disastrous Stephane Dion sneaked up the middle and won) - said bluntly that, "there are things about a country that you don't learn from a book," things that you can only learn by being here and taking part in the rough and tumble of constitutional and economic debates.
Another leadership hopeful, Toronto Liberal Joe Volpe, added that nobody who has been away for more than three decades could possible be an expert about either his country or his party.
In other words, these senior Liberals felt that Ignatieff was not fit to lead a party and/or a country when he had been absent pretty much his entire adult working life.
Which, of course, is precisely what the Tory ads are saying.
Does that make them qualify as the dreaded "negative ads?" You bet it does. But so what? They're dead on.
Ignatieff says those ads are an insult to all Canadians who have worked abroad. That it implies they are less Canadian than those who stayed here.
No, it doesn't. But the difference here is that all those other Canadians who spent however many years abroad, are not now claiming that they have the understanding and the knowledge of the country and its' people to be their leader. Ignatieff stands alone in that category.
And the Tories - whether people like negativity or not (personally, I don't see anything wrong with it, nor, as history shows, do Liberals and the NDP) - are simply hoisting Ignatieff on his own foreign-based petard. Supporters of Ignatieff like to point out that the man was born in Canada and, for the most part, educated here. He can also trace his ancestors in Canada back four generations.
All this is true. It's also beside the point.
The fact remains that Ignatieff left the country in the early 1970s and lived and worked abroad - in England and the U.S. - and became so comfortable in his skin in the United States that, as mentioned earlier, he consistently referred to himself as an American.
He's also the same guy who once dissed the Canadian flag - the one brought to us courtesy of Liberal prime minister Lester Pearson, who Ignatieff now says is one of his heroes - by telling a British journalist that the flag reminded him a "beer label."
Nice. There's no record whether the beer label he had in mind was Canadian, British or American, but it does indicate a rather smug and cavalier attitude towards the country he now wants us to believe that he loves above all else.
Indeed, the reason the controversial Tory ads have the Liberals in such uproar is really quite simple: it's because they're true. Politicians aren't accustomed to that.
 

Risus

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May 24, 2006
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Hey Risus good day my friend, hey how is it that Canadians that work out of the country are lesser Canadians then you or the ones who never travel. You are living on an Island my friend, Harper is on record doing a speech from the Australian PM to back Bush on a war rampage that found nothing at the end just a LIE, of course I am going to be pist-off about that, what? is Iggy just as bad because he was popular professor and an award winning author? Give it a rest................ Harper has put you in debt federally and you seem to ask for more. There, I am out of it what you say to that?

You ignored the question. Get your head out of the sand (or your butt, whichever the case may be). Iggy is just a yankee puppet. You can't ignore that fact...

And iggy's answer to the debt is just to raise taxes....
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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BINGO!

Mr. Hoy strikes the nail on the head.....

Good day Colpy, as I am sure Mr. Hoy votes for Harper, well good for him Mr Hoy's story has lots of hypocritical fiber in it, he immigrated from his be-loved China or Asia and moved to the west for prosperous considerations.

We have all witnessed that Globalization is based on people moving around doing business with each other, that does not label them unpatriotic but rather savvy in current or past world history and trends.

Many Chinese people came to Canada back in early 90’s and called Canada their new home, is that mean that the entire Chinese community are les Chinese because they called Canada their present home? Of course not! Mr. Hoy is talking from both sides of his mouth and that declares one to be a hypocrite on the subject. His little poster on this thread is nothing but partisan propaganda.:roll:


 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Good day Colpy, as I am sure Mr. Hoy votes for Harper, well good for him Mr Hoy's story has lots of hypocritical fiber in it, he immigrated from his be-loved China or Asia and moved to the west for prosperous considerations.

We have all witnessed that Globalization is based on people moving around doing business with each other, that does not label them unpatriotic but rather savvy in current or past world history and trends.

Many Chinese people came to Canada back in early 90’s and called Canada their new home, is that mean that the entire Chinese community are les Chinese because they called Canada their present home? Of course not! Mr. Hoy is talking from both sides of his mouth and that declares one to be a hypocrite on the subject. His little poster on this thread is nothing but partisan propaganda.:roll:

Early 90's? You mean 1890's? Before that. Remember the Canadian Pacitif Railway? Chinese were helping to build it in 1880's!
 

Walter

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Rick Salutin Thursday, May. 28, 2009 07:00PM EDT

Personally, I find nothing that's basically more vile in “attack” ads or negative campaign ads than in any type of political ad. Voters have a right to know the down side of their candidates and leaders should expect to be attacked. The only issue is whether ads are informative or deceptive, and that holds equally for a smarmy pitch about how warm and sweatery the candidate is and how his or her policies will rescue the economy.
In the current avalanche of Conservative attack ads against Michael Ignatieff, one theme is that he's “just visiting” Canada, because he lived elsewhere for 34 years. I do find that kind of humiliating, but in his defence, it probably wasn't his idea to return and run the country; it came from a cabal of Liberal Party heavies. There's always been a self-putdown component among Canada's elites. Linda McQuaig says when she interviewed Moody's bond rater for Canada, he told her with surprise that the only national business leaders who regularly demanded a down grade were the Canadians. At any rate, the guy's been back for a few years and besides, some humiliation is good for the soul.
But there's another element in the ads that sticks better, and may be responsible for this week's levelling-off in Liberal support: Mr. Ignatieff's past claims that he was an American. The ads show him in a clip: “You have to decide what kind of America you want ... It's your country just as much as it is mine.” This is not an isolated aberration. In a New York Times article just five years ago, he wrote “we,” meaning Americans, six times in a single paragraph, and throughout.
That's pretty blatant misrepresentation and raises the question: Why did he do it, repeatedly? The answer matters to voters who have to choose.
It could be because he's a liar or delusional - neither of which would necessarily disqualify a person from leading his country and even leading it well. But citizens have a right to know what they're getting. Is he forgetful, or on some medication that makes him go in and out of a foreign identity?

Even Rick Salutin and the Globe and Mail, both big Liberal supporters, find the ads raise good questions.
 

Socrates the Greek

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Apr 15, 2006
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Rick Salutin Thursday, May. 28, 2009 07:00PM EDT

Personally, I find nothing that's basically more vile in “attack” ads or negative campaign ads than in any type of political ad. Voters have a right to know the down side of their candidates and leaders should expect to be attacked. The only issue is whether ads are informative or deceptive, and that holds equally for a smarmy pitch about how warm and sweatery the candidate is and how his or her policies will rescue the economy.
In the current avalanche of Conservative attack ads against Michael Ignatieff, one theme is that he's “just visiting” Canada, because he lived elsewhere for 34 years. I do find that kind of humiliating, but in his defence, it probably wasn't his idea to return and run the country; it came from a cabal of Liberal Party heavies. There's always been a self-putdown component among Canada's elites. Linda McQuaig says when she interviewed Moody's bond rater for Canada, he told her with surprise that the only national business leaders who regularly demanded a down grade were the Canadians. At any rate, the guy's been back for a few years and besides, some humiliation is good for the soul.
But there's another element in the ads that sticks better, and may be responsible for this week's levelling-off in Liberal support: Mr. Ignatieff's past claims that he was an American. The ads show him in a clip: “You have to decide what kind of America you want ... It's your country just as much as it is mine.” This is not an isolated aberration. In a New York Times article just five years ago, he wrote “we,” meaning Americans, six times in a single paragraph, and throughout.
That's pretty blatant misrepresentation and raises the question: Why did he do it, repeatedly? The answer matters to voters who have to choose.
It could be because he's a liar or delusional - neither of which would necessarily disqualify a person from leading his country and even leading it well. But citizens have a right to know what they're getting. Is he forgetful, or on some medication that makes him go in and out of a foreign identity?

Even Rick Salutin and the Globe and Mail, both big Liberal supporters, find the ads raise good questions.


Hey Walter you got it right on, the Cons are not informative and if anything they are deceptive and they will be butted out on the coming up election.
They cheat, they are bigots, and they have no clue of how arithmetic works, their finance minister is far from a genius. Canada watch out you are up for a bad ride.
Bad red ink will make many hard working Canadians suffer...
 

johnnyhangover

now with added fiber!
Feb 20, 2009
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While there are many unanswered questions surounding Ignatieff, I find his political views quite refreshing. His ideas (expressed in his books) are largely free from political affiliation and he approaches each issue pragmatically. Having a politician whose views are readily available to be dissected is refreshing and offers a certain degree of credibility and accountability.

To Cannuck: Regurgitating political attack ads calls into question your own credibility and shows you lack of respect for the intelligence of everyone on these boards. Do some research and find the context from which Iggy's words have been taken.
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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While there are many unanswered questions surounding Ignatieff, I find his political views quite refreshing. His ideas (expressed in his books) are largely free from political affiliation and he approaches each issue pragmatically. Having a politician whose views are readily available to be dissected is refreshing and offers a certain degree of credibility and accountability.

To Cannuck: Regurgitating political attack ads calls into question your own credibility and shows you lack of respect for the intelligence of everyone on these boards. Do some research and find the context from which Iggy's words have been taken.


Good day Johnny, :cool::cool::cool:
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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To Cannuck: Regurgitating political attack ads calls into question your own credibility and shows you lack of respect for the intelligence of everyone on these boards. Do some research and find the context from which Iggy's words have been taken.

If you are going to comment on something specific that a poster has said, please quote it so that everyone will know what you are talking about. Otherwise, some of us will assume you are just an Iggy disciple with your head up your ass.

Personally I'm far too lazy to look back through the entire thread to find where you have mistakenly thought I was regurgitating political attack ads so until you can point it out, I will consider you the Iggy disciple.
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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Info directly from the source on Iggy...

Enjoy the ride!

Ignatieff.me


Hey Captain,

Harper is looking behind him more often now with Iggy ready to pull the pin. The question to the Canadian people should be do you want to be spared from another fiscal disaster much like the Mulroney days as sings show to day that Harper will sir pass Mulroney’s deficit by triple. That is the question to the people.....DO YOU WHAT YOUR GREAT GRAND KIDS PAYING FOR YOUIR VOTE WITH HARPER?



“It’s your country just as much as it is mine”
Nothing wrong with that statement,

If you are a born Canadian, live in a Canadian city, and a neighbor is talking to you about Canadian affairs who is not a born Canadian,………………. while on conversation the neighbor refers to Canada as his home,………………. you as the born Canadian feel good that a none Canadian born citizen like your neighbor calls Canada their home.

Iggy was lecturing in the US no big secret, and went as far as confirming that he is not an enemy of the US but rather a resident of the US and when you reside in a country that is your present home.

Now the Conservative political propaganda will go into the sewer by some unfit mentality, at the end what counts is that single presses vote come election time. I would take Iggy any day as a PM OVER Snow White no deficit Harper, and I think Quebecers will do the same.


It is a very serious problem when a chicken little (minority Government) in the beginning of the term telling the Canadian people, Canada is in a better position economically and a short time later to tell the people that DEFICITS ARE ESSENTIAL starting with $50 Billion. WHAT KIND OF CRAP IS THAT? THAT IS BAD POLITICS AND BAD economic PROGRESS……..
In the next 5 years Canada will exceed the 600 Billion federal deficit thanks to the Conservatives up in it at the end of the 5 years by $100 Billion. Some thing very wrong here.
 
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captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Harper is looking behind him more often now with Iggy ready to pull the pin.


The only reason for anyone to be looking behind them is if Iggy 'the buggerer' is hiding in the shadows.



DO YOU WHAT YOUR GREAT GRAND KIDS PAYING FOR YOUIR VOTE WITH HARPER?




It will be the great, great (and possibly) great grand children that will still be paying-off Trudeau's stupidity... No one, past, present or future will be able to eclipse PET's dumb-ass leadership (except Dion or maybe Iggy).


“It’s your country just as much as it is mine”
Nothing wrong with that statement,


.. You conveniently left-out the bit that the conversation was explicitly about the good ole US of A.


Now the Conservative political propaganda will go into the sewer by some unfit mentality, at the end what counts is that single presses vote come election time. I would take Iggy any day as a PM OVER Snow White no deficit Harper, and I think Quebecers will do the same.

You still don't want to admit that it was Iggy himself that said all that tripe. The cons are hanging him and the liberal party with his own words both in print and video.


As far as the next election is concerned, yawn.. I heard all that malarkey last election too. In the final count I believe that all the other parties picked-up seats at the expense of the liberals.


It is a very serious problem when a chicken little (minority Government) in the beginning of the term telling the Canadian people, Canada is in a better position economically and a short time later to tell the people that DEFICITS ARE ESSENTIAL starting with $50 Billion. WHAT KIND OF CRAP IS THAT? THAT IS BAD POLITICS AND BAD economic PROGRESS……..

What was Trudeau's excuse?.. Further, According to Iggy, the gvt is "on probation". Why, he and the libs could have collapsed the gvt on the last budget or a myriad of other votes. The only chicken-****s in Ottawa are the liberals. They've had years to make good on their threats, but never pulled the trigger... Go and bitch to the liberal polituro on that one.

By the by, Canada IS in a much better position than most other nations... Do a little research other than just reading-up from the liberal bible.
 

captain morgan

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Why aren't conservatives mad at harper for running the country as if he were the leader of the ndp? i mean, his actions are about as far from conservative as you can get.


C'mon... There is not one single gvt in the western hemisphere that isn't deficit spending at this point. Lyin' Brian had to debt-finance just like Trudeau (gag) and the same stands for Harper. The alternative is to allow the that erosion of the labour markets and the industrial sector. The direct result is that you'll see more EI and Welfare claims being required. The gvt doesn't get nearly as much tax from those areas (from recipients) as opposed to funding make-work programs (infrastructure) and helping prop-up business upon which they will tax (fed+prov) up to 53%, let alone the applicable hidden taxes or GST.