Evolution classes optional under proposed Alberta law

[Cannuck]

I think what's odd is that they're willing to participate but only if they can keep their children ignorant of certain well-tested ideas, and school boards are, if I've understood your story correctly, in effect willing to let them delete certain items from the standard curriculum when it comes to their children. I think that's a serious disservice to the kids. Keeping rural schools open--certainly a laudable goal I think--by keeping certain children ignorant of a major element in humanity's common intellectual heritage doesn't sound like a good trade off to me. This is a public, and publicly funded, school system, surely one of its primary duties is to pass on as much as possible of that heritage to the children who go through it. I don't believe the ends justify the means.

It's not a trade off. Were the School Boards not willing to accommodate the Mennonite community, they would have home schooled or built their own.

There were only three choices. Choice A was an isolated Mennonite community with a closed public school. Choice B was a less isolated Mennonite community with a thriving local public school. The third choice was to force the Mennonites to attend public schools, causing them to leave the province, crippling the ag sector. I believe the second option is the best option in the short term and the long term, especially for the Mennonite children. In fact, it is my understanding that one of the Mennonite girls in Burdett is an honour student and has convinced her parents to let her stay. She wants to be a vet.

The Alberta government deserves big Kudos on this one.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sometimes it's unnecessary to question everything. One can, for instance, feel that water is wet and see that oranges are orange and hear that dogs make noise. As one gets older, presumably one better learns whixh questions to ask.
Apparently, AB prefers to steer kids away from prudent questioning. Or rather giving the parents easier ways of limiting kids' ability to do some prudent questioning.

Gilbert, this is worse than anything proposed by Fundamentalists in USA. In USA the religious right wants to teach both evolution and creation (with bias towards creation, of course). The kids will grow up hating evolution, but at least they will know the rudiments of the theory of evolution.

Sadly, in Alberta they will grow up hating evolution, without knowing what the theory of evolution is all about.

 

[Cannuck]

Do you really deny with a straight face that Alberta is more conservative than Ontario or Quebec? Alberta is the home of Reform party and Alliance, which were very much parties of the right. Even during Mulroney era, the MPs and cabinet members form Alberta used to be blue Tories, those from Quebec red Tories, and those from Ontario a mix of the two.

This reminds me of a discussion I had on another forum with a liberal who refused to accept that he was liberal

Board Message

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Might as well make geology, anthropology, history, etc. optional, too. They each have information that contradicts creation "theory".

Well said, Gilbert. Now parents will have to be warned if school is going to teach astronomy (polluting students’ mind by telling them that stars and galaxies formed millions and billions of years ago), geology (where schools may teach that a particular strata is say, 50 million years old), Chemistry (Where half life of an element may be in thousands of years obviously greater than the age of the universe, according to the religious right), physics and of course, biology.

With this legislation in place, schools probably will have to warn the parent any time they want to teach anything about science.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

And who was that silly federal science minister who recently refused to answer a question about his views on evolution on the grounds that it was an inquiry into his religious beliefs?

Stockwell Day.

 

[Tonington]

SJP, it wasn't Stockwell Day, it was Gary Goodyear.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It's not a trade off. Were the School Boards not willing to accommodate the Mennonite community, they would have home schooled or built their own.

Uh... doesn't that by definition make it a trade off? We'll do X to benefit us, so you won't have to do Y, and in exchange we'll offer you Z so it benefits you too...

The Alberta government deserves big Kudos on this one.

I cannot agree. I think this is a mistake on both sides. There will be children from an insular and restricted religious community attending school with children who are not so insulated, the former are going to hear from the latter about what they're not being allowed to learn, they will be curious as all children are, and it won't take more than a small minority of them following up on their curiosity with the library and Internet access available at school and carrying the secular message back to their religious communities to deeply disrupt them. And when that happens, and it will, the children will be pulled out of the secular public school system and things will be back where they started. Except that it might be too late for those isolated religious communities, the secular influence will already be among them and there'll be no going back. I think that's no bad thing in the long term, because I think all religion is nonsense and should be put aside for better ways of thinking, but things might get ugly in the meantime.

 

[gerryh]

isn't a free society wonderfull...... you have religeous zealots on one side pushing their agenda, and on the other side, equally zealot atheists pushing their agenda, Of course the athiest would never admit to pushing any kind of agenda. They are only doing what is best for everyone.......lol

 

[Cliffy]

isn't a free society wonderfull...... you have religeous zealots on one side pushing their agenda, and on the other side, equally zealot atheists pushing their agenda, Of course the athiest would never admit to pushing any kind of agenda. They are only doing what is best for everyone.......lol

You forgot political zealots and trolling zealots and... and...

 

[Dexter Sinister]

isn't a free society wonderfull...

Yes it is. It allows us to have conversations like this one, in which people are free to argue and disagree. Societies where religious and secular authority are vested in the same people and institutions don't allow that, they are monstrous tyrannies. You've complained bitterly about what you think is bashing of religion here, even your current sig line makes that point sarcastically, and I've no doubt that you'd suppress it if you could. I believe you think religious belief deserves automatic respect. It doesn't. It has to take its lumps and defend itself in the marketplace of ideas the same as any other claims do.

 

[Cliffy]

Tyranny is a human thing, right:?: Well Jesus is cumming soon and he will straighten out this political none sense and run the world in a righteous manner, right:?:

Oh, that would be a dictatorship too!8O I just re-read that part and it looks like JC will be a tyrant too.:-( What with swinging swords and throwing people into a fiery lake. My we are in a pickle. Damned if we do and damned if we don't. God must be a sick, sadistic *******.:angryfire:

I vote George Carlin for world leader. I know he's dead. That will insure he can't make things any worse.:lol:

 

[Nuggler]

:angry3:....Bullshyte !!

It's a well known fact that only 96 angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Well known.

Fact.

8O

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SJP, it wasn't Stockwell Day, it was Gary Goodyear.

What, another one? I thought Stockwell Day was the only nut around.

 

[Toro]

Evolution is science. It has been recreated in the lab.

Scientists recreate evolution of butterfly species - Science, News - The Independent

 

[captain morgan]

Nuggler,

Thanks for the info on to, too and two champ, I suppose that there is a puny little use for your puny little troll mind after all despite the messages sent to me stating the contrary..

Don't forget to deal with yer Mama.... She did work ever so hard to help ya out, least you can do is pay the bill.

I'm a little curious.... Is 'Nuggler' your pet name in prison? the name sounds like you are a currency in the pen.

 

[Cannuck]

Uh... doesn't that by definition make it a trade off? We'll do X to benefit us, so you won't have to do Y, and in exchange we'll offer you Z so it benefits you too... I cannot agree.

No it isn't. The reality is that the school board has not given anything up...unless you consider being flexible as giving up something. Personally I think flexibility is a good thing.

I think this is a mistake on both sides. There will be children from an insular and restricted religious community attending school with children who are not so insulated, the former are going to hear from the latter about what they're not being allowed to learn, they will be curious as all children are, and it won't take more than a small minority of them following up on their curiosity with the library and Internet access available at school and carrying the secular message back to their religious communities to deeply disrupt them. And when that happens, and it will, the children will be pulled out of the secular public school system and things will be back where they started. Except that it might be too late for those isolated religious communities, the secular influence will already be among them and there'll be no going back. I think that's no bad thing in the long term, because I think all religion is nonsense and should be put aside for better ways of thinking, but things might get ugly in the meantime.

It's been close to ten years since the Burdett school has integrated. the Mennonite population and the non-Mennonite populations consider this a huge success and there has not been any problems. You sound like a fear monger. It's really cut and dried. The history has proven you wrong and, as I said, the Alberta Government needs a pat on the back for supporting this initiative.

 

[gerryh]

Yes it is. It allows us to have conversations like this one, in which people are free to argue and disagree. Societies where religious and secular authority are vested in the same people and institutions don't allow that, they are monstrous tyrannies. You've complained bitterly about what you think is bashing of religion here, even your current sig line makes that point sarcastically, and I've no doubt that you'd suppress it if you could. I believe you think religious belief deserves automatic respect. It doesn't. It has to take its lumps and defend itself in the marketplace of ideas the same as any other claims do.

obviously, you feel that religeon should be suppressed and if you had your way, it would be. Schools in Alberta have found a way to integrate it into the system without stepping on anyones toes and all you can do is blather on about how it can't work, even though it has already proven that it does, and if you had the power, you would throw this out.

Now, who is the one calling for suppression?

 

[ironsides]

Evolution as "earth_as_one" has said is a part of science. I personally do not even attach "theory of" in front of it. It is now fact that we all evolved from primordial ooze. If a parent takes a child out of a science class that child should fail. When I went to school, my parents had me take Catechism classes for religious training, but that was in addition to what ever I learned in science class. (one did not interfere with another) You cannot separate the teaching of evolution from science.

 

[gerryh]

You cannot separate the teaching of evolution from science.

WHy? because you say so? Of course you can. What you are saying is no different than the fundies saying you can't understand how the world works if you don't believe in creationism and God.

 

[coldstream]

How could something as complex as the human eye develop naturally? More importantly, how could it develop in gradual stages while still being functional? The eye's evolution is actually quite simple, starting as primitive light-sensitive cells with gradual improvements over about 364,000 years.

Not only have scientists discovered how such a complex eye could have evolved from a light-sensitive cell, proving the process is not impossible, but every stage of the eye's development can be seen in nature!

I would note that such a methodical and purpose driven process, producing such an elaborate and beautiful construct.. makes a much stronger case for intelligent design than it does for random happenstance.

Why is there such commonality of features amongst species. If it corresponds to natural laws, then why are these laws so regular and uniform. Who designed them. Surely a universe developed by random mutation would produce a much more chaotic outcome, than that of a creation, with a given purpose.