Canada more democratic than the U.S.?
- Thread starter Sublime
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Now if the argument is whether Reform was far right or extreme right, then by no means. Some members might have been giving the Hitler salute, but they would certainly not have been representative of the rank and file.
That's the way it works with SJP. Once his ideas are firmly trounced he just pretends the discussion is about something else altogether. This discussion stems from SJP's need to label anyone that disagrees with him. That is why SJP is not partaking in the test. Gawd forbid if it showed he was more to the right of us. He probably has taken it a number of times and won't post the results until he "fixes" it to the results he wants.
Of course Senate reform belongs here. You've brought it up and suggested it was a far right policy.
Your biggest problem is that you view everything as left/right with yourself squarely in the middle. Aside from the obvious silliness of the claim, it's also a ridiculous oversimplification.
See The Political Compass as just one of the sites that expand on right/left thinking.
I score
Economic Left/Right: -0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.64
So, let's see where everybody fits so we can cut the "far-right" nonsense.
My thoughts exactly and I was just going to post requesting the characteristics of far right vs. centre right. Really I think it's all nonsense. There is correct ways of doing things and wrong ways of doing things, generally speaking running up debt is wrong especially if you don't have the assets to cover the debt.
My definition of extreme, be it right or left, is when we're prepared to use violence to achieve our means.
Neither the Reform Party (or current Conservative Party) nor the NDPcondone violence to achive their ends, at least within the Canadian political system.
Now according to that same definition, we could thus say the Conservatives are extremist in that they're using violence to achieve their ends in Afghanistan. But then we'd have to distinguish between force and violence, and establish which of the two we're exercising there, force being legitimate and within the confines of justice and the law, violence being outside such confines.
Neither the Reform Party (or current Conservative Party) nor the NDPcondone violence to achive their ends, at least within the Canadian political system.
Now according to that same definition, we could thus say the Conservatives are extremist in that they're using violence to achieve their ends in Afghanistan. But then we'd have to distinguish between force and violence, and establish which of the two we're exercising there, force being legitimate and within the confines of justice and the law, violence being outside such confines.
You haven't already? I always thought this was you
Oh my. And I thought I had too few tattoos!
It doesn't deserve a whole new thread, because you're misrepresenting what the Reform party wanted.
The triple E senate was one of the main planks in the party. The contrast you issued above is a perfect example of why they wanted Senate reform. PEI already has unequal representation in the Senate. The Reform wanted equal representation. This doesn't mean 10 Senators for every province and territory, because that would be unequal representation.
I'm actually about as far left as Colpy turned out (though about 5 times greater libertarian,) and Preston Manning is a man I have quite a bit of respect for. It takes a great amount of will and determination to forge a new party that is bent on changing the establishment. He didn't have the stuff to be the PM, but he did a phenomenal job of growing the brand.
Democratic reform does not make you right wing. That is ludicrous.
The Reform wanted equal representation. This doesn't mean 10 Senators for every province and territory, because that would be unequal representation.
Tonington, my understanding is that Reform Party wanted the triple E senate, equal, elected and effective. They wanted equal number of senators for each province (modeled after US senate).
I'm actually about as far left as Colpy (though about 5 times greater libertarian) turned out
That means you belong to the right.
Democratic reform does not make you right wing. That is ludicrous.
I agree. However, Senate reform, along with call for referendums, opposition to equal right for gays (Reform opposed the Chrétien legislation to ban discrimination against gays), taken all these things together, it definitely makes Reform party right wing.
And as to equal senate, that was part of the pattern of Reform Party blindly following USA (the motto of the far right is, everything American, good, everything Canadian, bad). Their demand for equal Senate was modeled after US equal Senate. Same as their demand for referendums was patterned after US style referendums.
Tonington, my understanding is that Reform Party wanted the triple E senate, equal, elected and effective. They wanted equal number of senators for each province (modeled after US senate).
I'm actually about as far left as Colpy (though about 5 times greater libertarian) turned out
That means you belong to the right.
Democratic reform does not make you right wing. That is ludicrous.
I agree. However, Senate reform, along with call for referendums, opposition to equal right for gays (Reform opposed the Chrétien legislation to ban discrimination against gays), taken all these things together, it definitely makes Reform party right wing.
And as to equal senate, that was part of the pattern of Reform Party blindly following USA (the motto of the far right is, everything American, good, everything Canadian, bad). Their demand for equal Senate was modeled after US equal Senate. Same as their demand for referendums was patterned after US style referendums.
Holy Mackerel!!! And I STILL think the Conservatives are the closest
to the political centre by far!!! Wacky!!! What does that say?
I'm somewhere between Cannuck & Colpy on the Lefty Libertarian
scale, and not too far from that Lefty Lone Wolf....
to the political centre by far!!! Wacky!!! What does that say?
I'm somewhere between Cannuck & Colpy on the Lefty Libertarian
scale, and not too far from that Lefty Lone Wolf....
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It says we are Canadians. This far-right that SJP speaks of just does not exist in Canada. The "so-called" right in Canada are actually middle of the road.