It Can Happen only in Texas.

[SirJosephPorter]

I now know more than I ever wanted to know about anti-gay law in Texas since you began this thread with the above quote.

You are welcome, RanchHand. Had you even heard of the Texas Sodomy Law before this?

You rarely provide links to any source to substantiate your claims. Could you provide links this time to whatever you are using to make your assertion that either the Texas government or the Texas citizens are famous for anti-homosexual hatred today.

RanchHand, I provide a link where it is warranted. When I posted the thread, I did give the link for the mall incidence. As to Texas Sodomy law, I don’t think it is necessary to provide a link, just Google ‘Texas Sodomy Law’ and you will find all the links you need (and more).

As to anti-homosexual bias (call it bias, hatred or whatever), Texas is still famous today. It has achieved the pride of place in the Hall of shame as being the last state to arrest and imprison people for consensual homosexual act (which eventually led to the overturning of Texas Sodomy Law).

Even today, Texas has no law banning discrimination against homosexuals. A gay man may be fired from his job, denied employment, thrown out of has apartment just because he is gay, and for no other reason.

Now, you may call it anti-gay bias, I call it anti-gay hatred, it is a matter of semantics. But the fact is, it is perfectly legal to discriminate against gays in Texas, and I assume there is absolutely no prospect of passing anti-discrimination legislation (I assume unclepercy will know more about this). The legacy of the Texas sodomy Law will remain with Texas for a long time to come.

 

[RanchHand]

I now know more than I ever wanted to know about anti-gay law in Texas since you began this thread with the above quote.

You are welcome, RanchHand. Had you even heard of the Texas Sodomy Law before this?
These assertions are yours, not mine. It's not up to me to prove your claims did not happen. I will take your answer here to mean that my guess that the second sentence of your first post, upon which the whole thread is predicated, happend at least 10 years ago. I will also accept your claim that the perpetrators of 'this crime against nature' as I suppose it was known then, were released on bail back then.

You rarely provide links to any source to substantiate your claims. Could you provide links this time to whatever you are using to make your assertion that either the Texas government or the Texas citizens are famous for anti-homosexual hatred today.

RanchHand, I provide a link where it is warranted. When I posted the thread, I did give the link for the mall incidence. As to Texas Sodomy law, I don’t think it is necessary to provide a link, just Google ‘Texas Sodomy Law’ and you will find all the links you need (and more).
Again, these are your assertions about the state of gay rights in Texas. If you make the claim it is up to you provide your source when you're questioned. To tell me, in essence, to "go look it up" is confirming that what you say is nothing more than your unsubstantiated claim.
Could you provide links this time to whatever you are using to make your assertion that either the Texas government or the Texas citizens are famous for anti-homosexual hatred today
As to anti-homosexual bias (call it bias, hatred or whatever), Texas is still famous today. It has achieved the pride of place in the Hall of shame as being the last state to arrest and imprison people for consensual homosexual act (which eventually led to the overturning of Texas Sodomy Law).
I'm calling it anti-homosexual hatred. The reason I am doing this is because this is what you have used throughout this thread and to change it now, out of the blue, would be changing much of the tone of the thread and of course be another example of moving the flag as we go from point to point.
Since I doubt that there is a 'Hall of Shame' that I can visit to see where the last act of sodomy in Texas is commemerated with a statue or a time capsule or whatever, I am going to take your description of Texas in this case to be simple name calling.

Even today, Texas has no law banning discrimination against homosexuals. A gay man may be fired from his job, denied employment, thrown out of has apartment just because he is gay, and for no other reason.

Neither do most US states as you have pointed out. Most Americans would be suprised to hear this. I guess I'm pissing in the wind here, but could you provide links (other than telling me to go look it up) where I can see how often these laws are enforced? I would think virtually every company of more than a few employees will have codes of conduct or some such similar thing in place that prohibits discimination based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation.
But that's just my opinion, of course.

Now, you may call it anti-gay bias, I call it anti-gay hatred, it is a matter of semantics. But the fact is, it is perfectly legal to discriminate against gays in Texas, and I assume there is absolutely no prospect of passing anti-discrimination legislation (I assume unclepercy will know more about this). The legacy of the Texas sodomy Law will remain with Texas for a long time to come.

Why do you assume there is NO prospect? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume there is SOME prospect? I have already shown you that the majority of people in the US (not individual states) favor gay marriage and gay civil rights. Don't you think it's a tad unreasonable to therefore assume there will never be laws against anti-gay discrimination in Texas? How do you know the legacy of the sodomy laws in Texas that ended 6 years ago will continue for a long time to come? Other than to tell me to go look it up, can you clue me in on stats that back up this claim?

 

[Johnnny]

you know i think some of us need to be less confrontational with our neighbours, from down south

 

[Niflmir]

Neither do most US states as you have pointed out. Most Americans would be suprised to hear this. I guess I'm pissing in the wind here, but could you provide links (other than telling me to go look it up) where I can see how often these laws are enforced? I would think virtually every company of more than a few employees will have codes of conduct or some such similar thing in place that prohibits discimination based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation.
But that's just my opinion, of course.

Its his claim that there are no such laws in Texas. You cannot put the burden of proof on someone to provide evidence of non-existence. In any case, earlier in this very thread he provided the links which he has used to defend his position:

This is what Wikipedia says about discrimination against gays.

The states banning sexual orientation discrimination in private sector employment are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin

Plus, this whole thread is about a case of discrimination against gays occurring in Texas.

 

[Tyr]

you know i think some of us need to be less confrontational with our neighbours, from down south

Hmmm. I wa thinking that it would be the other way around. They need us more than we need them and they should try to show it

 

[ironsides]

"Tomorrow, March 26, 2003 the United States Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in Lawrence v. Texas, a case based on the criminal conviction of two men who engaged in homosexual conduct (each was fined $200). They appealed their convictions, arguing that the Texas anti-sodomy law violated the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. and Texas Constitutions." This happened 6 years ago and was settled back then, it is a non issue today.

Examples of Discrimination laws:
California: It is against the law for women to drive while wearing a bathrobe.
Florida: It is illegal for a single, divorced, or widowed woman to parachute on
Sunday.
It is illegal for men to be seen in public wearing a strapless gown.
Kentucky: It is against the law to ask a girl in a bikini for a date.
The law states that "no female shall appear in a bathing suit on any highway
unless she is escorted by at least two officers of the law or unless she
be armed with a club". An amendment to the law says that "the provisions
of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90 pounds nor
to females exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to female horses."
These are all laws of discrimination and will not be addressed by any court untill someone complains. Every State seems to have weird laws.

Oh yes, watch where you park your elephant.

 

[EagleSmack]

Mass still has a law that states all horses shall be tied to hitching posts in front of businesses.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I will also accept your claim that the perpetrators of 'this crime against nature' as I suppose it was known then, were released on bail back then.

RanchHand, I don’t know if they were released on bail or not. However, I do know that they did serve some time in prison. Which in today’s day and age (having to serve prison time for having consensual sex with an adult) is nothing short of barbaric.

Again, these are your assertions about the state of gay rights in Texas. If you make the claim it is up to you provide your source when you're questioned.

I may not have provided links to your satisfaction, but I have certainly provided them to my satisfaction. I did provide a link to the article about the incidence in the mall. Also I have told you how to find the link to the Texas Sodomy Law story (Google for ‘Texas Sodomy Law’).

Now, I don’t know what more links you are looking for, but I think these links are quite adequate to illustrate my point (that the state of gay rights in Texas is abysmal, to put it mildly).

Could you provide links this time to whatever you are using to make your assertion that either the Texas government or the Texas citizens are famous for anti-homosexual hatred today

Again, I have already provided the link. I did give a list of the states which have passed legislation banning discrimination against gays, and name of Texas doesn’t appear in the list. Which tells me that Texas does NOT ban discrimination against gays, that in Texas a person may be fired form his/her job, denied employment, denied admission to an educational institution, may be thrown out of the apartment and so on, just for being gay.

So again, I may not have given links to your satisfaction, but I have given them to my satisfaction.


Neither do most US states as you have pointed out. Most Americans would be suprised to hear this.

What does this mean? That most Americans are ignorant about the status of gay rights in USA? That sounds plausible I suppose, but that still doesn’t detract from my contention that gay rights in Texas are practically non existent.

I guess I'm pissing in the wind here, but could you provide links (other than telling me to go look it up) where I can see how often these laws are enforced?

And what are you talking about here? If the (anti-discrimination) law doesn’t exist, how can it be enforced?

I would think virtually every company of more than a few employees will have codes of conduct or some such similar thing in place that prohibits discrimination based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation.
But that's just my opinion, of course.

Yes, that is only your opinion. No doubt some small companies would indeed have such a policy. However, not all of them. Especially if the owner of the company himself is a Fundamentalist Christian, you can be sure that he would be careful not to hire any gay employees. Can’t have the righteous, pure as driven snow fundamentalist workforce polluted by the presence of a gay worker now, can we?

Why do you assume there is NO prospect?

That is my conclusion based upon the following:

Until recently, sodomy was a crime in Texas, and it isn’t a crime any longer just because of the Supreme Court. Left to Texas, sodomy would still be a crime today.

The incident like the one described in this thread (the incidence in the mall) does still happen in Texas today.

Religious right is very strong in Texas, both at the local and federal level. Strength of religious right is usually in inverse proportion to gay rights, stronger the religious right, weaker the status of gay rights.

I have already shown you that the majority of people in the US (not individual states) favor gay marriage and gay civil rights.

You have showed nothing of the sort. The poll given by you (and which sounds reasonable) says that 39% of Americans support gay marriage, hardly a majority. The same poll says that 51% of American support civil unions, again, hardly a majority, more like 50:50.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Mass still has a law that states all horses shall be tied to hitching posts in front of businesses.

Every state (and every province in Canada) has such archaic laws on its statute book. Most of the times, it is not worth repealing such laws, it is best to leave them on statute book and ignore them.

The problem with Texas Sodomy Law was that Texas was making arrests under the law and it did lead to a conviction.

Let us look at the law about horses. Suppose a man comes to a small, isolated country store, ties his horse to a bicycle parking post (there are no hitching posts), is charged with crime as a result and is convicted.

What would be the result? There will be an outcry over unjust prosecution, unjust prison sentence and there will be demands to repeal the law (if courts haven’t struck down the law already as unconstitutional).

It is the same with Sodomy law. We may have an anti-Sodomy law here on Ontario statute book, I don’t know. But the point is even if there is such a law, it is a dead law, and nobody here in Ontario would even dream of charging anybody under such a law (assuming one exists).

If Texas Sodomy Law was dormant and nobody had been charged under it, it won’t be such a problem.

 

[ironsides]

They were fines $200, which they got back after appeal. Here are the results again.
"Tomorrow, March 26, 2003 the United States Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in Lawrence v. Texas, a case based on the criminal conviction of two men who engaged in homosexual conduct (each was fined $200). They appealed their convictions, arguing that the Texas anti-sodomy law violated the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the U.S. and Texas Constitutions." Looking up Lawrence v. Texas will give you the whole federal reply.
As of 2003 there are no more sodomy laws in the U.S. this case ended them all.

 

[Spade]

Texas, Texas?? Isn't that the part of New Spain all around the Alamo?
PS to Ironsides
Nice avatar. Isn't that a hood ornament from a classic Case tractor?

 

[ironsides]

Very funny. :smilebox:

 

[YukonJack]

Cannuck, you oponed thus:

"They say a sense of humour is a sign of intelligence."

I beg to disagree, or at least dispute your assertion.

The folks who appear to have the least sense of humour, those who get "offended" at the drop of a hat, at the utterance of ANY word that can (and by them WILL) be used as provocative, are the liberals.

Yet, they claim to have the highest education, the most sophisticated view of the world and the most compassionate and loving outlook on life.

So, something does not compute.

However, I will give them full marks for name-calling and denigration of people - indeed entire countries - as seen by the post od SisRupertMurgartroyd.

 

[YukonJack]

"Federal laws protect all minorities blacks, hispanics, gays. women, disabled etc. from being unjustly evicted or fired from a job, just because they are a minority."

By the time you count up all of the above, I, as a white, heterosexual male, am in a definite minority.

Could I please have the same rights of expression and entitlements as any or all the groups, above???

 

[Tyr]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

It must be Friday the 13th or someone is playing a very sick joke

Yukon Jack?????


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[Spade]

Yukon, you old neo-con reprobate. Welcome! But remember, this is a gentler, kinder forum.
Your cousin,
Spade

 

[Spade]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

It must be Friday the 13th or someone is playing a very sick joke

Yukon Jack?????


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Run, run, run away!
Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Michael the Archangel, John the Baptist, Peter, and Paul preserve us!

 

[petros]

Don't forget to ask Satan. You'll need all the help you can get.

 

[Spade]

Don't forget to ask Satan. You'll need all the help you can get.

Hey, right!
Saint Nick and Old Nick, too!
We live in interesting times!

 

[YukonJack]

One of your fellow liberals burped:

"My gawd if there's one thing I cannot stand it's a bigot."

To which - in your objective, tolerant, liberal wisdom - replied:

"Maybe so Zan, but USA is full of them. We have our share here in Canada of course, but nowhere near as many as they have in USA."

SirRupertMurgartroyd, your initial post and your resonse to the emotional claptrap, above, clearly indicates that when it comes to name-calling and hypocrisy, nobody can beat a died in the wool liberal such as you. Got a mirror handy??

What gives you more satisfaction: denigrate and offend a person, a group or an entire nation?