The Improbability of God

[Dexter Sinister]

If MHz had Dexter on "ignore" he/she wouldn't be able to quote Dexter as his posts would be hidden from MHz. It's just a pedomorphic game he/she is playing.

Yep. Conversations with MHz on religious matters always end up with him behaving like a spoiled 12-year old when he fails to win his point. Fairly typical of the fundamentalist mindset, I've found: "I have the authority of god and scripture, I cannot possibly be wrong, you therefore must be wrong and can be freely mocked and insulted." And in less civilized circumstances than we currently enjoy here in Canada, tortured and killed.

 

[talloola]

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads

Same attitude as the- klu klux klan, skin heads, and ignorant red necks,- religion fits
right into that mindset, narrow minded and cruel, and they have the nerve
to spout that they hold the 'deed' to high morality and true faith, unbelievable,
oh um parden the pun.;-)

 

[eanassir]

"Any object has its maker and any action has its doer."

What's your argument against this? ( in summary, without detailed composition.)

 

[Scott Free]

Think of it as a boxer, if the left doesn't get you the right one will.
In reality you might get there via the 3rd door which is called the grace of the Lord which is just by the skin of your teeth but in is in and anyway is better than not in. That would be the kick to the groin that gets you on one knee in record time.

Two points on this: my teeth don't have skin and there is no god.

 

[Scott Free]

Which god is it you think I should believe in? Yours or eanassir's?

And what proof do you have that your god exists? And what proof do you have that eanassir's doesn't and what proof do you have that your god is better?

Scott Free, to be on the safe side, why not believe in both the Gods? And also be an Applist (one must cover all the bases).

I know the argument sounds stupid, but that is the argument that religious fanatics seriously make.

Their argument is ‘suppose I am wrong (this is the religious fanatic speaking) and there is no after life, I haven’t lost anything. But suppose you are wrong and there is an afterlife, you will be damned to eternal Hell forever.’

It is a very silly argument. I cannot pick and choose what to believe in. There is either evidence for a premise or there is not. when I do decide something is true I mean only that it is supported by evidence and I can make an inference from the evidence of the truth of something, but if new information comes to light It can change my understanding through new inferences and thereby the truth of it.

Since I do not think I can understand anything completely, It follows that I cannot believe anything either; I can only understand something to be true. Belief suggests complete conviction of something (at least in this thread) which would be silly. If I say I believe something I mean only that I think it to be true not that I am convinced of its truth beyond all reason (which again seems to be the definition in this thread).

I was once religious. I thought atheists and agnostics chose unbelief instead of belief. I always wondered why they didn't just choose to believe.

I now understand that true atheists and agnostics don't choose either. Something is either real or not and that distinction is based on evidence. I know many religious people honestly believe they can choose their reality. What they are really choosing to do is run away from reality.

This is a hard thing for religious people to understand.

 

[eanassir]

The ways of atheists​

It is very strange the way of atheists: they contradict everything related to or commanded by God Almighty:

The homosexuality with all its dangers to community and families and killing the manhood in the object on whom the action is done the guy) and that the subject will like this abnormal and disgusted way – this they encourage.

The adultery with all its dangers to the family and disruption of the lineage so that the son may not know who is his father – this they enhance and confirm.

The gambling with its danger to the loss of money and making many quarrelling – this they like.

The consumption of alcohol with its undeniable risks to the individual and community – this they encourage.

And so on they dislike everything pertaining to God, and cling to everything bad contradicting His way and religion. This indicates they follow the footsteps of their invisible enemy: Satan and his servants, although they deny it.

This is in the Quran 43: 36-39​

ومن يعشُ عن ذكرِ الرحمنِ نقيّضْ له شيطاناً فهو له قرين ...الخ​

The explanation:
(And anyone whose sight is dim to the admonition [: the Quran] of the Most Gracious [God], We exchange for him a devil who becomes his comrade (in stead of the believers whom he disliked).

And the [devils] surely turn the [associaters] from the way [of the truth], and yet the [associaters] deem themselves rightly guided.

Till when the [associater after death] comes to Us, he says [to his comrade, the devil]: "Would that between me and you there was the distance of the two sun-rises -- an evil comrade!"

And [the angels will say to the associaters and their comrades, the devils]: "[Your disputing] profits you not this day; because you wronged [people in the past], so you will be shares in the doom.")

man-after-death.t35.com/1.htm#Devils_​

 

[Scott Free]

The ways of atheists​

It is very strange the way of atheists: they contradict everything related to or commanded by God Almighty:

The homosexuality with all its dangers to community and families and killing the manhood in the object on whom the action is done the guy) and that the subject will like this abnormal and disgusted way – this they encourage.

The adultery with all its dangers to the family and disruption of the lineage so that the son may not know who is his father – this they enhance and confirm.

The gambling with its danger to the loss of money and making many quarrelling – this they like.

The consumption of alcohol with its undeniable risks to the individual and community – this they encourage.

And so on they dislike everything pertaining to God, and cling to everything bad contradicting His way and religion. This indicates they follow the footsteps of their invisible enemy: Satan and his servants, although they deny it.
​

You are making another fallacious argument. You cannot say that parts (an atheist) are the same as the whole (all atheists) or that the whole is the same as the parts. It simply isn't true to over generalize.

I could say all Muslims are suicide bombers. That would be a fallacious over generalization of the whole (Muslims) is like the part (suicide bomber). Certainly some Muslims are suicide bombers, like some atheists drink, but not all Muslims are suicide bombers just like not all atheists drink. It is even true that some Muslims drink while some atheists do not.

 

[Scott Free]

Not about Canada but you'll get the idea:

Vid

 

[eanassir]

In my "religion" and language, gods are called "fictitious".

This is only your assertion, which is only you lie to yourself, to your conscience and to reason and logic, in addition to others.

God is the Creator of the universe and nature and everything in existence; nothing may come spontaneously without a doer; and to God all of you people will return following your death; as in the Quran 10: 4​

إِلَيْهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا وَعْدَ اللّهِ حَقًّا إِنَّهُ يَبْدَأُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ لِيَجْزِيَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّالِحَاتِ بِالْقِسْطِ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لَهُمْ شَرَابٌ مِّنْ حَمِيمٍ وَعَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَكْفُرُونَ​

The explanation:
(To Him [:God] is the return of all of you [man-kind and genie-kind]; it is a promise of God in truth.
Lo! He begins the creation [of souls from the ether], then returns it [: the soul to the ether world after death];
that He may reward those who believe and work righteousness with justice;
while, as for those who unbelieve, theirs will be a boiling drink and painful doom because they did unbelieve.)


man-after-death.t35.com​

 

[eanassir]

I was once religious...

You might have been once religious, but that your religion was not the true religion of God; but you belonged to some sect, and you followed the enthusiasm about some imams which is not the pure religion of God, but only the religion of the associating some imams with God, which is like the idolatry.

The atheism and the association with God or idolatry are two similar things; and both the idolater (or the associater) and the atheist will be in Hell forever.

As in the Quran 5: 72 concerning Jesus Christ who was sent to Jews in particular:

لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللّهُ عَلَيهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ​

The explanation:
(They are unbelievers who say: "God is the Christ the son of Mary",
but the Christ said:
"Children of Israel, worship God: my Lord and your Lord;
surely, whoso associates [anything or anyone] with God, God has forbidden him Paradise, and his resort is the Fire;
wrong-doers will have no helpers [to save them from the chastisement.] )


man-after-death.t35.com​

 

[Scott Free]

You might have been once religious, but that your religion was not the true religion of God; but you belonged to some sect, and you followed the enthusiasm about some imams which is not the pure religion of God, but only the religion of the associating some imams with God, which is like the idolatry.

Right, I forgot, the true religion of man is the one your father belongs to :lol:

The atheism and the association with God or idolatry are two similar things; and both the idolater (or the associater) and the atheist will be in Hell forever.

Since I am also supposed to be in misery and yet I'm not, so then you found a quote that said I could enjoy myself, you'll have to understand that your god has lost all credibility with me. He obviously just makes sh!t up to suit himself and buffalo people like you.

As in the Quran 5: 72 concerning Jesus Christ who was sent to Jews in particular:

لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللّهُ عَلَيهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ​

The explanation:
(They are unbelievers who say: "God is the Christ the son of Mary",
but the Christ said:
"Children of Israel, worship God: my Lord and your Lord;
surely, whoso associates [anything or anyone] with God, God has forbidden him Paradise, and his resort is the Fire;
wrong-doers will have no helpers [to save them from the chastisement.] )


man-after-death.t35.com​

Actually heaven is inhabited by blue elephants in pink pajamas that will judge you. If you can sing three songs in key (the whole thing from start to finish - no cheating) they will let you live by the sacred banana tree of eternity but if you cannot then they will send you to live in the land of socks and smelly water.

This verily is the truth - prove me wrong.

 

[eanassir]

repeated and deleted.​

 

[eanassir]

The Canadian, Dr. Gary Miller, who converted​

http://www.themodernreligion.com/essays_Gary_Miller.htm
The Canadian: Dr. Gary Miller who converted and became Muslim at 1977, he gave many arguments to the authenticity of the Quran:​

1- The Quran is the miracle of Prophet Mohammed – salam be to him; this miracle is still available with us, while the miracles of all the past prophets disappeared with them after their death: like the staff of Moses, the medical miracles of Jesus, etc.

2-The Quran does not mention the name of Prophet Mohammed more than 5 times only, while the name of Jesus Christ was mentioned 25 times, in addition to a large number the names of Moses and the other prophets were mentioned. So if Mohammed invented the Quran as do some claim, then he would mention his name more than others.

3- The daughter and the wives of the prophet are not mentioned in the Quran, while there is a complete soorah (or chapter of the Quran) called the soorah of Mary (mother of the Christ.)

4-None may challenge all people to find any defect and difference from the other heavenly books concerning the monotheism, other than God only may say this.
As in the Quran 4: 82​

أَفَلاَ يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا​

The explanation:
(Will they not ponder the Quran?
If it had been from [anyone] other than God they would have found therein much variation [from the ancient heavenly scriptures, contradicting the monotheism.] )​

I say: This is right, while this challenge cannot be said by anyone unless by God Himself: i.e. no one can say this which is in the Quran 17: 88 ​

قُل لَّئِنِ اجْتَمَعَتِ الإِنسُ وَالْجِنُّ عَلَى أَن يَأْتُواْ بِمِثْلِ هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لاَ يَأْتُونَ بِمِثْلِهِ وَلَوْ كَانَ بَعْضُهُمْ لِبَعْضٍ ظَهِيرًا​

The explanation:
(Say [O Mohammed, to these associaters]: "Even though the whole man-kind and genie-kind [: demon-kind] were to gather together in accordance to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like, even if they aided each other with support.")​

quranandhebrewbible.t35.com ​

 

[Spade]

Today is MoonDay, March 9
The god du jour is Selene, the Titan goddess of the moon.

From Wikipedia
Quote:
"In post-Renaissance art, Selene is generally depicted as a beautiful woman with a pale face, riding a silver chariot pulled by a yoke of oxen or a pair of horses. Often, she has been shown riding a horse or bull, wearing robes and a half-moon on her head and carrying a torch. Essentially, Selene is the moon goddess but is literally defined as 'the moon'."

No one can prove she does not exist!

 

[Scott Free]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove that the blue elephants in pink pajamas aren't in heaven.

Here is more proof:

1. There are no books about them where they are mentioned four times.

2. Milk

3. I know someone who knows someone who saw one in the window of a truck.

4. If you don't believe in them they will get mad and send you to the smelly water.

5. They say this: Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

meaning: moo

 

[Spade]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove that the blue elephants in pink pajamas aren't in heaven.

I know! And, sometimes my neighbour Henry has "visions." I will have to ask him if his elephants are blue. However, knowing Henry's randy streak, I suspect his elephants are nude.

Now I suspect the moon goddess is real, for I have seen her looking at her reflection. "Vanity, thy name is woman!"

 

[MHz]

Yep. Conversations with MHz on religious matters always end up with him behaving like a spoiled 12-year old when he fails to win his point. Fairly typical of the fundamentalist mindset, I've found: "I have the authority of god and scripture, I cannot possibly be wrong, you therefore must be wrong and can be freely mocked and insulted." And in less civilized circumstances than we currently enjoy here in Canada, tortured and killed.

Just to refresh your mind, our conversation came to an end when you refused to reply to the question about the banking rules of the OT being far better than what exists today (to the fairness of the poor rather than the detriment).
Another correction that should be made (and it isn't a big enough of an issue to even look back a few posts let alone many) is that you simply refused to answer several questions put forward. I know that statement is true so this post of yours is in error.

Is this your attempt (as victor) at re-writing history? LOL

A few general points to clear up.
SJP need to come up with a verse from the NT that confirms his view of the severity of the penalty of his preferred lifestyle. Since he is in a nation that has many so called "Christians" if that penalty was in effect he would now be dead, so obviously his understanding of Scripture is in error. Also if he cares to carry this on come over to Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum. Don't let the name fool you, drunken sailors have been made to blush if it was called for and you don't have to register so you can post as an AC (anonymous coward lol)

The God of the Bible and the God of the Quran are one and the same so that is a commonality not a difference.

 

[Cliffy]

Our reality reflects our beliefs. Buddhists and Quantum Physicists believe that physical reality is a manifestation of our beliefs and ideas about life and reality, that thought has a direct affect on what we witness and experience.

During the Bush years, what the hell were we thinking?

Also, if a person believes in hell, that is where they go when they die until they figure out it is just a figment of their imagination.

 

[Spade]

Our reality reflects our beliefs. Buddhists and Quantum Physicists believe that physical reality is a manifestation of our beliefs and ideas about life and reality, that thought has a direct affect on what we witness and experience.

During the Bush years, what the hell were we thinking?

Also, if a person believes in hell, that is where they go when they die until they figure out it is just a figment of their imagination.

Our thoughts are real, Cliff? That's a terrible thought.

 

[Cliffy]

The God of the Bible and the God of the Quran are one and the same so that is a commonality not a difference.

This is true but why do they come across as two different gods? From what eanassir has posted (cut and paste Koran) I would have to say that his version is even nastier than the biblical psychopath. But, hey! to each his own. Hell awaits you all who sit in judgment of your fellow man.