To what extent should we grant the right to bear arms?

[Tyr]

People that live in big cities ahould have access to hand guns because the police can only clean up the mess after it happens, where people would be able to defend themselves effectively as it is happening.

To keep control on the weapons there should be police type stores to sell the hand guns and the police should offer hand gun safety courses.

The criminal would thing twice before attacking anybody.

People that live in big cities ahould have access to hand guns because the police can only clean up the mess after it happens, where people would be able to defend themselves effectively as it is happening.

So... If I don't like the way you look at me, it's ok to blow you away with about 5-6 shots, possibly "by accident"?

Brilliant

 

[Ron in Regina]

People that live in big cities ahould have access to hand guns because the police can only clean up the mess after it happens, where people would be able to defend themselves effectively as it is happening.

So... If I don't like the way you look at me, it's ok to blow you away with about 5-6 shots, possibly "by accident"?

Brilliant

Oh come on man. I don't think I've ever sided with Liberalman on
anything before, but he's talk'n about self-defense which you are
trying (& failing) to paint as a "Dirty Harry" type of situation. The
average law abiding mentally fit person is not a what you are trying
to paint here. Are you applying your own sense of self upon the rest
of society? If so, most of us aren't like you. You might shoot someone
because they're cross-eyed, but you would not be representative of the
bulk of non-criminals then, would you? A criminal might shoot you 'cuz
you look at them funny, but a criminal wouldn't be too concerned whether
he/she(it?) was legally carrying a weapon or not, eh?

 

[Spade]

People that live in big cities ahould have access to hand guns because the police can only clean up the mess after it happens, where people would be able to defend themselves effectively as it is happening.

So... If I don't like the way you look at me, it's ok to blow you away with about 5-6 shots, possibly "by accident"?

Brilliant

I think the liberalman subscribes to "There's many a slip, with a gun on the hip!"

 

[MHz]

People that live in big cities ahould have access to hand guns because the police can only clean up the mess after it happens, where people would be able to defend themselves effectively as it is happening.

So... If I don't like the way you look at me, it's ok to blow you away with about 5-6 shots, possibly "by accident"?

Brilliant

Somehow I get the feeling you would have a long time to contemplate what went wrong with that plan while you sit in prison servings a term that is measured in decades.

I don't have a link but I could find one that states that there is more crime on universities that are gun-free zones than there is on universities that do not have that policy in effect.

It probably works because a 'thug' is not going to try and rob (or whatever) certain people if there is a chance they will get shot.

 

[Tyr]

Oh come on man. I don't think I've ever sided with Liberalman on
anything before, but he's talk'n about self-defense which you are
trying (& failing) to paint as a "Dirty Harry" type of situation.

The average law abiding mentally fit person is not a what you are trying
to paint here. Are you applying your own sense of self upon the rest
of society? If so, most of us aren't like you. You might shoot someone
because they're cross-eyed, but you would not be representative of the
bulk of non-criminals then, would you? A criminal might shoot you 'cuz
you look at them funny, but a criminal wouldn't be too concerned whether
he/she(it?) was legally carrying a weapon or not, eh?

People that live in big cities ahould have access to hand guns because the police can only clean up the mess after it happens, where people would be able to defend themselves effectively as it is happening.

that's not "self-defence", it's vigilantism

The average law abiding mentally fit person

.. now, there's the "kicker" in the whole equation. What are we actually talking about? Possibly <10%

btw. the vast majority of "guns" aren't owned by "criminals

 

[Tyr]

Somehow I get the feeling you would have a long time to contemplate what went wrong with that plan while you sit in prison servings a term that is measured in decades.

I don't have a link but I could find one that states that there is more crime on universities that are gun-free zones than there is on universities that do not have that policy in effect.

It probably works because a 'thug' is not going to try and rob (or whatever) certain people if there is a chance they will get shot.

...and they are much more likely to shoot first and get on with the "task" at hand if they know you are armed.

To set the record straight...

I am not against "guns" per se. I have no problem with hunters who fill the larder for sustenance

I am opposed to every nutbar and fringe lunatic being able to procure a handgun on the premise of "self defence"

Hence, I am for much tighter controls on how and why handguns are issued.

If there is a legitamite need, then great.

The whole "self defence or hunting or just 'cause it's cool to have one "doesn't wash for the VAST MAJORITY and is a huge rationalization/justification for people to have a "soother" to overcome their own paranoia

 

[lone wolf]

Over the age of twelve, reasonably sane and sensible, and of good character.

Man, would that ever rule out a lot of folks who bear arms now....

 

[Spade]

Remember Dr. Gerald Bull?
Dr. Gerald Bull: Scientist, Weapons Maker, Dreamer | CBC Archives
See clip#2
I wonder what Masters and Johnson would have said?

 

[Nuggler]

I'm wrong about the 19.5........Sheesh, all these years I believed that, as was told it by a dyed in the wool gun man, and great outdoors guy. Moot point. I never owned a shotgun with a shorter barrel, anywho.

A shotgun is actually measured in overall lenght....
I had a 410 backpacker a few years ago with a twelve inch barrel.....absolutely legal ...

So, you might want to check this gun's legality. I'm NOT saying it's ILLEGAL, or trying to start a shyte-storm, it just doesn't seem to jibe with the legalspeak from the Arcymp.

lost a whole post. be right back............dang!!!

Actually, wish I had one.......(squirrels and groundhogs)


OK< here's what I got from their site: RCMP Canadian Firearms Program as of Jan/09::

Definition of a Prohibited Firearm

The Criminal Code states that a prohibited firearm is:

• a handgun with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.1 inches) or less;
• a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 25 or 32 calibre ammunition;
• a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make it less than 660 mm (26 inches) in overall length;
• a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make the barrel length less than 457 mm (18 inches) where the overall firearm length is 660 mm (26 inches) or more;
• an automatic firearm and a converted automatic firearm;
• any firearm prescribed as prohibited.

This'un here: ""a rifle or shotgun that has been altered to make the barrel length less than 457 mm (18 inches) where the overall firearm length is 660 mm (26 inches) or more.""

So, yours has not been "altered", rather, was factory. Is that what makes it legal.??

 

[lone wolf]

That's the rub.... If it came from the factory with a short barrel, it's legal....

 

[Ron in Regina]

People that live in big cities ahould have access to hand guns because the police can only clean up the mess after it happens, where people would be able to defend themselves effectively as it is happening.

that's not "self-defence", it's vigilantism

The average law abiding mentally fit person

.. now, there's the "kicker" in the whole equation. What are we actually talking about? Possibly <10%

btw. the vast majority of "guns" aren't owned by "criminals

Tyr, are you and I reading the same sentance? You're not on the same track as
I am. If where you live, less than 10% of the population are law abiding mentally
fit people; do you live in a Federal Correctional Facility, or are you just jaded. Not
everyone is in the same state as you. Law abiding, clean criminal record, tax
paying, mentally stable are the norm and not the exception or society just would
not work. 8O8O :lol::lol::lol:

 

[DaSleeper]

That little 410 backpacker wasn't accurate at all out of the box....being so light and with that particular length of barrel at the end of a full size stock ....muzzle flip made it shoot way too high.....
Had to unscrew the front sight and put in a much longer one......and with that new sight...it was fairly accurate even with rifled slugs....

 

[Tyr]

Tyr, are you and I reading the same sentance? You're not on the same track as
I am. If where you live, less than 10% of the population are law abiding mentally fit people; do you live in a Federal Correctional Facility, or are you just jaded. Noteveryone is in the same state as you. Law abiding, clean criminal record, tax paying, mentally stable are the norm and not the exception or society just would not work. 8O8O :lol::lol::lol:

If where you live, less than 10% of the population are law abiding mentally fit people

Have you ever broken the law? Speeding, cheated on your taxes, threw some trash on the ground? Tsk Tsk. You've broken the law and had no intention of upholding the letter of the law, nor it's intent for our protection. Does that disqualify you from owning a handgun? Nope.

Although you are not "law abiding", you are still able to obtain a handgun for any contrived reason (and believe me, the vast majority of reasons are "contrived"). There may be a "want", but rarely a need

Law abiding, clean criminal record, tax paying, mentally stable are the norm

I beg to differ. Recent studies have indicated ~50% of all "law abiding" citizens "fudge" their taxes to some extent. 90% will admit to "speeding" - hardly law abiding or it can be argued "mentally stable"

Canada has more guns and fewer controls on them than most nations in Western Europe (exceptions being Finland, Norway and Switzerland which have comparatively fewer restrictions) or Japan. Gun ownership rate is about 27% of households with great regional variations, rural much higher urban, west higher than east.

It's simple. Greater control of handguns, fewer crimes

 

[Tyr]

and oh yes. 25% of the population suffers from some form of mental illness. Do they get disqualified from hand gun ownership.... Nope

 

[Tyr]

There is a permit that allows people to carry if they can prove they need to protect their lives but the permit is very rarely issued.

Only about 50 permits had been issued in all of Canada as of 2000. In the same year there were approximately 1 million hand guns in Canada

Am I missing something? If it's "extremely rare" to be issued a permit, how did we end up with a million handguns. How "rare" is really "rare"?

 

[Ron in Regina]

You and I are interpreting what Liberalman said in very different
contexts. Perhaps he could step forward and clarify himself.

Yes, I must have littered at some point in time, but that's a huge
jump to "Dirty Harry" vigilantism and shooting people that look at
my funny.

This is how I'm reading what Liberalman has written, and I'll
explain it in a scenario, as perhaps I'm not being very clear either.

Your wife Tyr, is about to get into her car at the back of the
parking lot at the mall. Someone approaches her with a knife, &
tells her to get into her car with him 'cuz he's taking her somewhere
else. Your wife pulls her gun, tells buddy to walk away, and then
your wife drives (alone) to the police station and fills out a statement
after reporting the criminals location & description via 911. I'm not
seeing vigilantism in that scenario. I'm seeing self defense.

Currently, your wife in that same scenario (seeing as pepper spray is
also illegal) doesn't carry a weapon and gets to either:
A) resist, get stabbed, maybe raped, and most likely robbed.
B) complies, maybe raped, most likely robbed, & might end up dead.
If she lives, she'll report this to the police eventually. Maybe someone
sees this happening and calls the police, and maybe they will respond
but the situation is over before they do, one way or another, and the
police give her a file# is she lives through the experience, or they give
you a file# if she doesn't.

You are seeing (I think) society as a pack of barely controlled mental
defects all just itching to shoot someone. I see the criminal element as
already disregarding the law and being armed, and the general citizens
as not being on a level playing field as they respect the laws that the
criminals do not.

 

[DaSleeper]

There is a permit that allows people to carry if they can prove they need to protect their lives but the permit is very rarely issued.

Only about 50 permits had been issued in all of Canada as of 2000. In the same year there were approximately 1 million hand guns in Canada

Am I missing something? If it's "extremely rare" to be issued a permit, how did we end up with a million handguns. How "rare" is really "rare"?

Where does that figure come from????

 

[DaSleeper]

Permits are being issued for target shooting, collecting,prospecting,trapping....among other things ....A target shooter will not buy only one firearm....there are many classifications of shooting...Rim fire. center fire, long range shooting ....there is also Slow fire, timed fire, rapid fire....each requiring a different firearm if you want to excel....

 

[Tyr]

Where does that figure come from????

Crime in Canada

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Only one third of Canadian murders involve firearms. Most Canadian weapons are rifles or shotguns owned by rural property owners, hunters and target shooters, and are less likely to be used in crimes. Many types of weapons are banned or restricted in Canada. The two biggest provinces, Ontario and Quebec have had a long history of strict gun controls. Most of the users of these illegal firearms are youth in their teens and early 20s.
It is effectively illegal to carry concealed handguns in Canada. There is a permit that allows people to carry if they can prove they need to protect their lives but the permit is very rarely issued. Only about 50 permits had been issued in all of Canada as of 2000. In the same year there were approximately 1 million hand guns in Canada, compared to 77 million in the United States.[10] Defensive use of firearms is uncommon in Canada.[11]
Canada has more guns and fewer controls on them than most nations in Western Europe (exceptions being Finland, Norway and Switzerland which have comparatively fewer restrictions) or Japan. Gun ownership rate is about 27% of households with great regional variations, rural much higher urban, west higher than east. Guns are also illegally brought into Canada.[

 

[Tyr]

Permits are being issued for target shooting, collecting,prospecting,trapping....among other things ....A target shooter will not buy only one firearm....there are many classifications of shooting...Rim fire. center fire, long range shooting ....there is also Slow fire, timed fire, rapid fire....each requiring a different firearm if you want to excel....

A target shooter will not buy only one firearm....there are many classifications of shooting...Rim fire. center fire, long range shooting ....there is also Slow fire, timed fire, rapid fire....each requiring a different firearm if you want to excel....

To what extent should we grant the right to bear arms?

Target Shooting (at <50 permits) is not quite what we're on about. It's Joe six pack with a Colt in the closet that is the contention.

Thanks for clarifying the "permit" issue though