Man dies after Taser shock by police at Vancouver airport
- Thread starter CBC News
- Start date
New RCMP policy says Tasers potentially lethal, limits use
"Elliott said the contentious weapons save lives, and officers will now
refresh stun gun training each year instead of every two years."
There is essentially ZERO issue with the safety of police officers. If an officer's
life is on the line, then they've been issued with a sidearm (a gun). All they have
to do is be aware of the (lethal and legal) consequences when they pull the
trigger. And if the situation is truly dangerous and there is time, then stand
back and call in the tactical team.
With respect to the safety of citizens, personally (speaking as a citizen) I would
HONESTLY rather take my chances with old-school police armed with guns &
common sense, as opposed to police armed with Tasers...due to the overuse,
abuse, misuse, & torture administered with Tasers as a compliance tool. Refusing
to follow an illegal order could be called resistance. "Resistant" needs to be clearly
defined, and a "threat to an officer or public safety" needs to be clearly defined in
a very open and public way so they is absolutely no confusion by anyone regardless
of which end of the Taser they happen to find themselves on. Is refusing to follow
an illegal order being resistant, or a threat to an officer or public safety?
"Stop videotaping our beating of that Citizen or you'll get Tasered!" As an
example, when that order is an illegal order. Stun gun use must be reported with
each firing or threat to fire, and must be justified as a reasonable and necessary
response to a threat to an officer or public safety.
Must be reported to whom? Report accessible to whom, in what time frame?
[SIZE=+0]Must be justified as a reasonable and necessary response to whom? Justified &[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]reasonable under what guidelines? This doesn't inspire much confidence for me[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]at this point. Way to vague....without more details, this is just more smoke and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]mirrors.[/SIZE]
"Elliott said the contentious weapons save lives, and officers will now
refresh stun gun training each year instead of every two years."
There is essentially ZERO issue with the safety of police officers. If an officer's
life is on the line, then they've been issued with a sidearm (a gun). All they have
to do is be aware of the (lethal and legal) consequences when they pull the
trigger. And if the situation is truly dangerous and there is time, then stand
back and call in the tactical team.
With respect to the safety of citizens, personally (speaking as a citizen) I would
HONESTLY rather take my chances with old-school police armed with guns &
common sense, as opposed to police armed with Tasers...due to the overuse,
abuse, misuse, & torture administered with Tasers as a compliance tool. Refusing
to follow an illegal order could be called resistance. "Resistant" needs to be clearly
defined, and a "threat to an officer or public safety" needs to be clearly defined in
a very open and public way so they is absolutely no confusion by anyone regardless
of which end of the Taser they happen to find themselves on. Is refusing to follow
an illegal order being resistant, or a threat to an officer or public safety?
"Stop videotaping our beating of that Citizen or you'll get Tasered!" As an
example, when that order is an illegal order. Stun gun use must be reported with
each firing or threat to fire, and must be justified as a reasonable and necessary
response to a threat to an officer or public safety.
Must be reported to whom? Report accessible to whom, in what time frame?
[SIZE=+0]Must be justified as a reasonable and necessary response to whom? Justified &[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]reasonable under what guidelines? This doesn't inspire much confidence for me[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]at this point. Way to vague....without more details, this is just more smoke and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]mirrors.[/SIZE]
Almost any item you can imagine can be used to kill you, all it takes is the knowledge of how to use it.
Awesome. I had not thought of that. Remove one ball and shrpen that end and put it in a McD straw.
I'll keep one around just it case.
With one car stereo capacitor I can build a stun gun that will make theirs look like little toys ;-)
Of course the topic will be touchy as one side will be in favour while another against. That is always the way, but one cannot deny the impact of the studies and dangers these items bring.
That said I believe the responsibility falls upon the maker of this device to use more care in stating the dangers of use and doing its deligence in safety.
That said, the more information that is released and known the more people need to restrict the use of any device or weapon. One would not expect another to use a gun to subdue a jaywalker so why would we expect the same from another device just as dangerous.
That said I believe the responsibility falls upon the maker of this device to use more care in stating the dangers of use and doing its deligence in safety.
That said, the more information that is released and known the more people need to restrict the use of any device or weapon. One would not expect another to use a gun to subdue a jaywalker so why would we expect the same from another device just as dangerous.
No charges for RCMP in airport Tasering: Report
Mountie testifies Taser victim's stance made him fear for his safety
By NEAL HALL, Vancouver SunFebruary 23, 2009 4:11 PM
Source: Mountie testifies Taser victim's stance made him fear for his safety
VANCOUVER - The first of four Mounties to testify about a fatal incident at the Vancouver airport in 2007 said he feared for his safety because of Robert Dziekanski's combative stance before being Tasered.
"I recall fearing for my safety, to some degree," Richmond RCMP Const. Gerry Rundel testified Monday at the Braidwood inquiry, which is probing Dziekanski's death and Taser use in B.C.
Rundel described Dziekanski as being unkempt and disoriented when police arrived.
"He had a wide-eyed glaze," Rundel recalled of the look on Dziekanski's face. "He seemed to be disoriented."
The man also had messy matted hair, his shirt untucked, was pacing and seemed agitated, Rundel said..
He said the call was dispatched as a possibly intoxicated person who was throwing around luggage.
Rundel and the other officers - Constables Bill Bentley, Kwesi Millington and Cpl. Benjamin Robinson - were all on a lunch break at the airport detachment when the dispatch came in.
They jumped in four separate police cars and arrived on scene about a minute later.
None of the officers said anything as they walked in the airport and saw
Dziekanski standing at the exit of a secure area of the international arrivals area, Rundel said.
He said Bentley greeted Dziekanski with a friendly, "Hi, how you doing."
Dziekanski, who spoke no English, responded with several words in Polish, the officer said.
He recalled that a woman had told him seconds earlier that the man did not speak English, but he didn't pass that along to the other officers.
Dziekanski, after police arrived, bent down and motioned toward his luggage.
"No," Robinson told Dziekanski, holding out the palm of his hand to indicate "You're not going into your luggage," Rundel said.
"Mr. Dziekanski clearly understood the command," the witness said.
Then the man "disobeyed Cpl. Robinson by flipping up his hands and leaving," Rundel said.
Rundel said he didn't think that the fact Dziekanski spoke no English was a factor in his disobeying a police command.
"I don't think the language barrier was a problem," he testified.
"He understood what Cpl. Robinson was instructing him to do," the witness said.
"He disobeyed that command and then was non-compliant - he flipped up his hands and moved away," Rundel recalled.
"My interpretation of that was 'To hell with you guys - I'm out of here,' " he added.
"I didn't see it myself but he grabbed a metal object, later determined to be a stapler. He had a firm grasp of it."
Rundel said Dziekanski then assumed a combative pose - with his arms near his upper chest, with the hand not grasping the stapler in a clenched fist and moved his left foot forward.
That's when Millington deployed the Taser, he said.
Dziekanski yelled, indicating the Taser shock was having an effect but the man failed to fall.
"Hit him again," Robinson told Millington, meaning deploy the stun gun again,Rundel said.
After the second shock, Dziekanski dropped the stapler and fell to the ground.
He said the incident unfolded very fast.
Rundel thought Dziekanski was Tasered twice, but the inquiry has heard the Taser was deployed five times.
Rundel and his colleagues then moved in to handcuff the suspect.
He said they had trouble handcuffing Dziekanski's hands behind his back and had to get on his back and hold the man's legs down.
"Once Mr. Dziekanski was handcuffed there was still a kicking motion for five or 10 seconds," then he stopped resisting, Rundel said.
Dziekanski died minutes later at the scene.
Hours after Dziekanski died, Rundel made a police statement that said the suspect "raised the stapler above his head and started motioning toward us."
But after watching a citizen's video of the event, the witness said it appeared Dziekanski lifted the stapler above his head after the second time the Taser was deployed.
The stapler then is dropped and Dziekanski writhes on the floor, howling in pain.
At the time of the incident, on Oct. 14, 2007, Rundel had only been a Mountie for two years.
Dziekanski, 40, had no alcohol in his system that night. He had left Poland 24 hours earlier and had spent about 10 hours in the airport unable to find his mother.
His mother had left the airport to return to her home in Kamloops after being told by officials that her son could not be located.
Several people called 911 after the exhausted man became agitated and began throwing luggage and furniture.
Dziekanski's mother began crying in court when the video of her son's final minutes were shown. She left court sobbing.
_______________________
If we as Citizens of Canada (and others around the World) hadn't SEEN
and HEARD the video recording of this death of Mr. Dziekanski, this
would almost sound believable. I watched that video (as did we all) and
I HEARD one of the RCMP ask, before they crossed into the secure area
where Mr. Dziekanski was, if he'd be able to get to use his Taser!
Four Armoured Mounties vrs one guy who didn't speak English, who picked
up a stapler and moved his left foot (the B@stard!!!). Start to finish, arrival to
the first of FIVE Taserings in just 26 seconds. Could it be that Mr. Dziekanski's
legs where kicking still as he was on the floor 'cuz he was being Tasered 2-3
more times? How DARE this guy squirm as he's being electrocuted!!! :angryfire: :idea: 8O8O8O
Mountie testifies Taser victim's stance made him fear for his safety
By NEAL HALL, Vancouver SunFebruary 23, 2009 4:11 PM
Source: Mountie testifies Taser victim's stance made him fear for his safety
VANCOUVER - The first of four Mounties to testify about a fatal incident at the Vancouver airport in 2007 said he feared for his safety because of Robert Dziekanski's combative stance before being Tasered.
"I recall fearing for my safety, to some degree," Richmond RCMP Const. Gerry Rundel testified Monday at the Braidwood inquiry, which is probing Dziekanski's death and Taser use in B.C.
Rundel described Dziekanski as being unkempt and disoriented when police arrived.
"He had a wide-eyed glaze," Rundel recalled of the look on Dziekanski's face. "He seemed to be disoriented."
The man also had messy matted hair, his shirt untucked, was pacing and seemed agitated, Rundel said..
He said the call was dispatched as a possibly intoxicated person who was throwing around luggage.
Rundel and the other officers - Constables Bill Bentley, Kwesi Millington and Cpl. Benjamin Robinson - were all on a lunch break at the airport detachment when the dispatch came in.
They jumped in four separate police cars and arrived on scene about a minute later.
None of the officers said anything as they walked in the airport and saw
Dziekanski standing at the exit of a secure area of the international arrivals area, Rundel said.
He said Bentley greeted Dziekanski with a friendly, "Hi, how you doing."
Dziekanski, who spoke no English, responded with several words in Polish, the officer said.
He recalled that a woman had told him seconds earlier that the man did not speak English, but he didn't pass that along to the other officers.
Dziekanski, after police arrived, bent down and motioned toward his luggage.
"No," Robinson told Dziekanski, holding out the palm of his hand to indicate "You're not going into your luggage," Rundel said.
"Mr. Dziekanski clearly understood the command," the witness said.
Then the man "disobeyed Cpl. Robinson by flipping up his hands and leaving," Rundel said.
Rundel said he didn't think that the fact Dziekanski spoke no English was a factor in his disobeying a police command.
"I don't think the language barrier was a problem," he testified.
"He understood what Cpl. Robinson was instructing him to do," the witness said.
"He disobeyed that command and then was non-compliant - he flipped up his hands and moved away," Rundel recalled.
"My interpretation of that was 'To hell with you guys - I'm out of here,' " he added.
"I didn't see it myself but he grabbed a metal object, later determined to be a stapler. He had a firm grasp of it."
Rundel said Dziekanski then assumed a combative pose - with his arms near his upper chest, with the hand not grasping the stapler in a clenched fist and moved his left foot forward.
That's when Millington deployed the Taser, he said.
Dziekanski yelled, indicating the Taser shock was having an effect but the man failed to fall.
"Hit him again," Robinson told Millington, meaning deploy the stun gun again,Rundel said.
After the second shock, Dziekanski dropped the stapler and fell to the ground.
He said the incident unfolded very fast.
Rundel thought Dziekanski was Tasered twice, but the inquiry has heard the Taser was deployed five times.
Rundel and his colleagues then moved in to handcuff the suspect.
He said they had trouble handcuffing Dziekanski's hands behind his back and had to get on his back and hold the man's legs down.
"Once Mr. Dziekanski was handcuffed there was still a kicking motion for five or 10 seconds," then he stopped resisting, Rundel said.
Dziekanski died minutes later at the scene.
Hours after Dziekanski died, Rundel made a police statement that said the suspect "raised the stapler above his head and started motioning toward us."
But after watching a citizen's video of the event, the witness said it appeared Dziekanski lifted the stapler above his head after the second time the Taser was deployed.
The stapler then is dropped and Dziekanski writhes on the floor, howling in pain.
At the time of the incident, on Oct. 14, 2007, Rundel had only been a Mountie for two years.
Dziekanski, 40, had no alcohol in his system that night. He had left Poland 24 hours earlier and had spent about 10 hours in the airport unable to find his mother.
His mother had left the airport to return to her home in Kamloops after being told by officials that her son could not be located.
Several people called 911 after the exhausted man became agitated and began throwing luggage and furniture.
Dziekanski's mother began crying in court when the video of her son's final minutes were shown. She left court sobbing.
_______________________
If we as Citizens of Canada (and others around the World) hadn't SEEN
and HEARD the video recording of this death of Mr. Dziekanski, this
would almost sound believable. I watched that video (as did we all) and
I HEARD one of the RCMP ask, before they crossed into the secure area
where Mr. Dziekanski was, if he'd be able to get to use his Taser!
Four Armoured Mounties vrs one guy who didn't speak English, who picked
up a stapler and moved his left foot (the B@stard!!!). Start to finish, arrival to
the first of FIVE Taserings in just 26 seconds. Could it be that Mr. Dziekanski's
legs where kicking still as he was on the floor 'cuz he was being Tasered 2-3
more times? How DARE this guy squirm as he's being electrocuted!!! :angryfire: :idea: 8O8O8O
Last edited:
No charges for RCMP in airport Tasering: Report
RCMP officer testifies he feared
Dziekanski's combative stance
Const. Gerry Rundel demonstrates the gesture made by Robert
Dziekanski moments before he was stunned with a Taser. (CBC)
Source: RCMP officer testifies he feared Dziekanski's combative stance
What gesture would anybody make when confronted with four
armed and armored law enforcement officers? I think I'd make
this gesture also...I might even throw my arms up above my
head after I was electrocuted, if I was still on my feet. Scary.
RCMP officer testifies he feared
Dziekanski's combative stance
Const. Gerry Rundel demonstrates the gesture made by Robert
Dziekanski moments before he was stunned with a Taser. (CBC)
Source: RCMP officer testifies he feared Dziekanski's combative stance
What gesture would anybody make when confronted with four
armed and armored law enforcement officers? I think I'd make
this gesture also...I might even throw my arms up above my
head after I was electrocuted, if I was still on my feet. Scary.
No charges for RCMP in airport Tasering: Report
Your hands are in the air, and then you see this:
What do you do with your hands? Would your feet move?
Your hands are in the air, and then you see this:
What do you do with your hands? Would your feet move?
No charges for RCMP in airport Tasering: Report
Mountie in Dziekanski death 'feared for my safety'
Source: globeandmail.com: Mountie in Dziekanski death 'feared for my safety'
The Crown has ruled out charges against the four officers.
???? threatening posture ???? Non-compliant ???? Feared for HIS safety ????
Mountie in Dziekanski death 'feared for my safety'
Source: globeandmail.com: Mountie in Dziekanski death 'feared for my safety'
The Crown has ruled out charges against the four officers.
???? threatening posture ???? Non-compliant ???? Feared for HIS safety ????
Classic: from the standard, “feared for safety” to the “combative stance”. And the icing on the cake: Crown rules out all—ALL—charges.
Clearly the RCMP did an exhaustive analysis of all of the footage and made sure to limit the testimony to only those statements which could not be confirmed (read: not questioned).
That said, the evidence was so condemning that I have to admit I’m surprised they didn’t get at least the token slap on the wrist.
A Polish man who is prone to drink (definitely not unusual in Poland—or much Eastern Europe for that matter) but hadn’t drunk spends 10 hours looking for answers in an airport to the point of becoming dehydrated, and has to deal with unsympathetic and completely useless airport staff (anyone who’s travelled by air knows what that’s like—and that’s without the language barrier), only to be treated like a criminal by four hostile, morally-bankrupt police officers.
Why was he treated this way?
Because he didn’t speak English (that’s a no-no) and spending half a day in an airport waiting area without a clue as to what was going on wasn’t particularly appealing to him.
Why was he killed?
Because the RCMP suffers from an underlying hatred of immigrants (short of being overtly racist) and like most police forces, is highly classist (Dziekanski was basically a Polish average Joe). This is most noticeable through the actions of its lower level ‘patrol’ officers (constables…whatever), who in this case viewed the victim as little more than eastern garbage to be given an introductory lesson in Canadian politeness.
Then he “disobeyed” them. That pretty much sealed his fate.
Try ignoring a cop that has just pulled you over for not stopping the full 3 seconds at a deserted stop-sign t-intersection, closing your window and driving off slowly------consider yourself lucky if you live through what happens next.) Psychopathic cops frequently hide behind the sanctity of the law in order to justify extreme violence against those who fail to obey (regardless of whether a threat actually exists).
If there was any lingering doubt that our Justice system is heavily influenced by the RCMP, this despicable verdict should pretty much kill it.
Clearly the RCMP did an exhaustive analysis of all of the footage and made sure to limit the testimony to only those statements which could not be confirmed (read: not questioned).
That said, the evidence was so condemning that I have to admit I’m surprised they didn’t get at least the token slap on the wrist.
A Polish man who is prone to drink (definitely not unusual in Poland—or much Eastern Europe for that matter) but hadn’t drunk spends 10 hours looking for answers in an airport to the point of becoming dehydrated, and has to deal with unsympathetic and completely useless airport staff (anyone who’s travelled by air knows what that’s like—and that’s without the language barrier), only to be treated like a criminal by four hostile, morally-bankrupt police officers.
Why was he treated this way?
Because he didn’t speak English (that’s a no-no) and spending half a day in an airport waiting area without a clue as to what was going on wasn’t particularly appealing to him.
Why was he killed?
Because the RCMP suffers from an underlying hatred of immigrants (short of being overtly racist) and like most police forces, is highly classist (Dziekanski was basically a Polish average Joe). This is most noticeable through the actions of its lower level ‘patrol’ officers (constables…whatever), who in this case viewed the victim as little more than eastern garbage to be given an introductory lesson in Canadian politeness.
Then he “disobeyed” them. That pretty much sealed his fate.
Try ignoring a cop that has just pulled you over for not stopping the full 3 seconds at a deserted stop-sign t-intersection, closing your window and driving off slowly------consider yourself lucky if you live through what happens next.) Psychopathic cops frequently hide behind the sanctity of the law in order to justify extreme violence against those who fail to obey (regardless of whether a threat actually exists).
If there was any lingering doubt that our Justice system is heavily influenced by the RCMP, this despicable verdict should pretty much kill it.
Police were justified in using a Taser stun gun on a Polish immigrant in 2007 because the man was agitated, failed to obey police commands and caused police to fear for their safety, an RCMP officer told the Braidwood inquiry Monday.
Hmmm. 4 cops in fear for their lives????
Upside (I guess), they didn't pump him full of lead - that would be murder. Death by taser should be classified as 1st degree manslaughter and the four of them should not be in court giving lame excuses (and outright lies), but behind bars fior 5 yrs minimum
Hmmm. 4 cops in fear for their lives????
Upside (I guess), they didn't pump him full of lead - that would be murder. Death by taser should be classified as 1st degree manslaughter and the four of them should not be in court giving lame excuses (and outright lies), but behind bars fior 5 yrs minimum
I think with a comment like you have just made you would not have any RCMP friends to be showing it to.
I tend not to hang out with low lifes
No charges for RCMP in airport Tasering: Report
This clip makes inferences to the Patriot Act in the USA.
The “feared for safety”&“combative stance” are the RCMP
version of Jim-Bob's "He/She/It's Coming Right For Us!!!" 8O
YouTube - Patriot Act - South Park Style
This clip makes inferences to the Patriot Act in the USA.
The “feared for safety”&“combative stance” are the RCMP
version of Jim-Bob's "He/She/It's Coming Right For Us!!!" 8O
YouTube - Patriot Act - South Park Style
Your hands are in the air, and then you see this:
What do you do with your hands? Would your feet move?
Hit the deck!!!
There's little hope anyone will be punished for Taser death