You will have to elevate the maturity level if you expect a response from me.
The steps to belief (or disbelief)
- Thread starter eanassir
- Start date
You will have to elevate the maturity level if you expect a response from me.
Boy, the different faiths sure like to complicate the hell (please, excuse the expression 
) out of life. No K.I.S.S. principle involved whatsoever.
) out of life. No K.I.S.S. principle involved whatsoever.
It makes complete sense in the flow of the conversation. it was a reference to both Muslims and Christians.
PS To ParsonManning
He is! For some petty reason he has a burr up his ass!
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Whatever. As I said, if you cannot repeat the experiment, your hypothesis is out-of-whack.
About the burning bush that talks, or the olive tree, or whatever version whoever has: the listener was most likely on hallucinogens, or had synapses misfiring, or something was encephalically screwy.
Oh give it up. The Quran is just a bunch of collected traditions. There is nothing more authentic about them.
I don't get it, this isn't any worse than all the other sill crap you believe, so why doubt the nose/devil teaching?
And that he lived in your nose :lol:
See? More silly crap. What is that supposed to be? Poetry? Well it's silly crap whatever you may call it ;-)
More silly crap!
It's called a wet dream and the devil didn't do it and you won't go to hell for it.
And how can you tell that this paedophile Muhammad isn't the devil? Because he says he isn't :lol::lol::lol: your hysterical eanassir :lol:
I hope no-one let's eannasir near any sharp objects. At least none that he/she/it can pick up, anyway.
It is the same problem now and in the past: thousands of years ago and till now: there had been two parties: The believers in God alone, in the apostles of God, His Books and the afterlife; and the other party who did not believe in all of that; whatever it would be said to them.
It is a matter of God's guidance.
This is in the Quran 39: 14-15
It is a matter of God's guidance.
This is in the Quran 39: 14-15
قُلِ اللَّهَ أَعْبُدُ مُخْلِصًا لَّهُ دِينِي . فَاعْبُدُوا مَا شِئْتُم مِّن دُونِهِ قُلْ إِنَّ الْخَاسِرِينَ الَّذِينَ خَسِرُوا أَنفُسَهُمْ وَأَهْلِيهِمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ أَلَا ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْخُسْرَانُ الْمُبِينُ
The explanation:
(Say [Mohammed to the idolaters]: '[It is] God [Whom] I serve, making my religion [and obedience] sincerely devoted to Him [alone]; so serve what you [idolaters and associaters] desire apart from Him [and so you will lose].'
Say: 'Surely the losers are they who lose themselves and their families on Doomsday; is not that the manifest loss? [That is because they lost Paradise and exchanged it for the Fire.)
(Say [Mohammed to the idolaters]: '[It is] God [Whom] I serve, making my religion [and obedience] sincerely devoted to Him [alone]; so serve what you [idolaters and associaters] desire apart from Him [and so you will lose].'
Say: 'Surely the losers are they who lose themselves and their families on Doomsday; is not that the manifest loss? [That is because they lost Paradise and exchanged it for the Fire.)
It is the same problem for the present and the ancient generations. There are the believers in God alone, as are there the atheists, the idolaters and associaters, and the disbelievers.
The disbeliever is proud over his Lord and is haughty: he wants – in order to believe – to see his Lord God with his own eyes; and this is impossible: because God cannot be seen by the eyesight. And the disbeliever too wants to see the afterlife, which is invisible and imperceptible to some extent.
This is in the Quran 25: 21
وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءنَا لَوْلَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا الْمَلَائِكَةُ أَوْ نَرَى رَبَّنَا لَقَدِ اسْتَكْبَرُوا فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ وَعَتَوْ عُتُوًّا كَبِيرًا
The explanation:
(Those [associaters] who look not for a meeting with Us [in the Hereafter] say:
"Why are not the angels sent down to us [to testify the apostlehood of Mohammed],
or [why] do we not see our Lord [to tell us that He has sent Mohammed to us]!?"
Indeed they have become proud within themselves, and their arrogance has exceeded all limits.)
These are only claims of the disbeliever that he may believe if he sees the afterlife; while in fact he will never believe even though he sees the afterlife with his own eyesight and sees every miracle; because he has not been guided: God sealed on his heart and on his hearing and He made a veil on his sight.
(Those [associaters] who look not for a meeting with Us [in the Hereafter] say:
"Why are not the angels sent down to us [to testify the apostlehood of Mohammed],
or [why] do we not see our Lord [to tell us that He has sent Mohammed to us]!?"
Indeed they have become proud within themselves, and their arrogance has exceeded all limits.)
These are only claims of the disbeliever that he may believe if he sees the afterlife; while in fact he will never believe even though he sees the afterlife with his own eyesight and sees every miracle; because he has not been guided: God sealed on his heart and on his hearing and He made a veil on his sight.
Here I ask all disbelievers (; they actually admit they are disbelievers, blasphemers and infidels):
Every man has seen during his lifetime many observations pertaining to the afterlife.
http://man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Soul_after_Death_
Every man has seen during his lifetime many observations pertaining to the afterlife.
http://man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Soul_after_Death_
The question is: Who among you has not ever seen any observation that might be related to the afterlife?
Be truthful (to yourselves before being truthful to others) and tell the truth: have you ever seen any observation that may be related to the afterlife, but you disregard it and try to forget about it?
Be truthful (to yourselves before being truthful to others) and tell the truth: have you ever seen any observation that may be related to the afterlife, but you disregard it and try to forget about it?
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Soul_after_Death_
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A question to all atheists, skeptics and associaters: Muslims and non-Muslims:
Here I ask all disbelievers (; they actually admit they are atheists, blasphemers and infidels):
Every man has seen during his lifetime many observations pertaining to the afterlife.
http://man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Soul_after_Death_
The question is: Who among you has not ever seen any observation that might be related to the afterlife?
Be truthful (to yourselves before being truthful to others) and tell the truth: have you ever seen any observation that may be related to the afterlife, but you disregard it and try to forget about it?
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Soul_after_Death_
I haven't. Certainly I've seen things that other people interpret that way, but I've always found that there are much simpler explanations that don't involve such an extraordinary claim. Have you any idea of the many proven ways that human thinking can go wrong? Hallucinations, confabulation, confirmation bias, false memories, magical thinking, pareidolia, logical fallacies, selective thinking, self-deception, wishful thinking, conflation... look them up. Perception and memory by themselves are not to be trusted.
But you are a disbeliever too. You have chosen a god and decided he is the only god. An arbitrary choice I might point out.
You don't believe in Ogyrvan, Ceros, Adeona, Saturn, Consus, Mu-ul-lil, Ubilulu, Odin, Vesta, Elum, Istar, Lagas, Aa, Bau, Samas, Qarradu, Zus, Zagaga, etc... and on and on.
So you are proud over these lords; you are an idolater and an atheist to these gods!
But this is OK, you say, because these gods are not real.
But I say your god is not real either. You believe in your god just as much as people believed in the gods of old. There is no difference between you and them.
You know they were misguided but you don't see that you're also misguided - how odd?
Someday you too will be shown to be as foolish as all the people who worshipped gods before you.
I have seen many things that made me wounder but only because I didn't know how to look at them. I didn't ask the right questions - I didn't know the right questions to ask. Now I look for a logical simple answer or explanation.
What I have found is that I made the illusions by believing in silly superstitions or not understanding that there is a plausible explanation for everything. Once I find such an explanation I test it to see which is most likely.
Is it likely that your god is real or more likely that he is just another like the ten thousand that preceded him? The answer is that your god is just like the rest - bogus.
And the man that talks to god: is he more likely crazy? Given the immense number of loonies alive today that claim they talk to god it is therefore most probable (certain) that he is just another nut.
Did this man produce something as evidence? Something you would expect from someone from god? The answer: no, he produced ambiguities exactly as would be expected if he were just another nut.
Does he rationalize inconsistencies with him being from god: yes. I call Muhammad a paedophile - which he certainly was - and should be struck down if he were really from god, but instead am told that someday I will surely get it in hell! What's that! Proof! Certainly not! They are the words and empty promises of a charlatan.
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Quoting Dexter: "Certainly I've seen things that other people interpret that way, but I've always found that there are much simpler explanations that don't involve such an extraordinary claim."
Today I asked one of my colleagues the same question; he answered in some way similar to your answer.
He said: "Truly, I haven't." Then he added: "Well, there were some observations that almost are because of natural factors."
I said: "How was that?"
So he mentioned to me some observations that cannot be ascribed to natural factors.
I also saw few of such observations, and many other people have also noticed many things. Some I told you, and others I haven't.
Of course, there are the confusions, hallucinations, mistakes, wrong interpretation, etc. but this cannot affirm that all such incidents and observations are like that.
All this has been noticed in the present time as well as in the past; and this point at least to the possibility of the next afterlife, which cannot be denied scientifically.
man-after-death.t35.com
Today I asked one of my colleagues the same question; he answered in some way similar to your answer.
He said: "Truly, I haven't." Then he added: "Well, there were some observations that almost are because of natural factors."
I said: "How was that?"
So he mentioned to me some observations that cannot be ascribed to natural factors.
I also saw few of such observations, and many other people have also noticed many things. Some I told you, and others I haven't.
Of course, there are the confusions, hallucinations, mistakes, wrong interpretation, etc. but this cannot affirm that all such incidents and observations are like that.
All this has been noticed in the present time as well as in the past; and this point at least to the possibility of the next afterlife, which cannot be denied scientifically.
man-after-death.t35.com
How could he, or you, possibly know that? All it means is that the two of you don't know of natural factors that could account for the observations. If you're not going to give examples it's hard to comment specifically, but by far the most likely explanation is simply that he saw things he didn't properly understand, or was fooled by one of the many ways people do that to themselves.
Agreed, but most people find it very easy to convince themselves of the truth of things they want to believe, mostly because, as I indicated, they don't understand the many ways thinking can go wrong. Here are some of them.
Of course not, it's a metaphysical claim, not a scientific claim. The evidence we have, however, strongly suggests that the idea of some part of the personality surviving the death of the body is *extremely* improbable, so improbable I would say as to be not worth taking seriously.
From the religion of a terrorist god.
A gang of British Islamists plotted to cause deaths on an "almost unprecedented scale"
Britons on trial over airliner bomb plot | International | Reuters
A gang of British Islamists plotted to cause deaths on an "almost unprecedented scale"
Britons on trial over airliner bomb plot | International | Reuters
He mentioned some examples like: He was alone in his house, a door was opened slowly (he thought one of his children was there, but then remembered all of them went out), then that door was closed slowly: no wind or similar causes were there.
Another example: He thought about his younger brother: that he has died and they are sad about him (when his brother in fact was healthy and strong), so he asked God to save him from the suggestions of Satan; and he forgot about this idea; then later on a teacher came and told him: that his brother had suddenly died. I told him: this idea was inspired to you by an angel or the soul of a dead relative.
While about what I saw: I told you in a past thread: when I saw the ghost of my father:
I went to visit my uncle and brother; it was just before sunset, and the sky was cloudy: it was not yet dark; the electrical power was cut off: the room where we sat was darker than outside; and the outside was not shining with sunlight.
And I saw, through the glass of the window, one walking: coming to the kitchen along the lane of the garden; I saw him wearing a white shirt, he moved quickly and certainly: he knew his way where he went not hesitating like a foreign one. I did not see his face [I only saw his trunk and arms].
I thought he was my brother Hussein who worked in another city and that he came, so I jumped to welcome him: "Hussein!" But when I went to that lane: there was none; I went to the kitchen: its door was locked from inside. Where did this person go? I went to the kitchen from inside the house: its door locked by the key: there was none there.
So I realized that that one was the ghost of my father: like his body frame: height and gait. Hussein was very much similar to my father from many aspects: his body and his voice even.
I told them to recite the opening soora of the Quran for his soul.
My uncle and brother said there is nothing, it may be an imagination; but my son 15 years old (at that time) who was sitting beside me saw this person also, and he shouted: "Yes, father; I too saw him", and he added "I saw his face with some whitish : his face was not clear."
My uncle and brother said there is nothing, it may be an imagination; but my son 15 years old (at that time) who was sitting beside me saw this person also, and he shouted: "Yes, father; I too saw him", and he added "I saw his face with some whitish : his face was not clear."
And there are many of such observations that I saw which cannot be ascribed to such explanations as hallucinations or imaginations.
See also what Abu abd-Allah heard in a way of inspiring him by the soul of his dead brother Salih (who died when he was child); I myself encountered somewhat similar personal experience.
< New Page 1[_How_Can_souls_inspire_us_]_ >New Page 1[_How_Can_souls_inspire_us_]_
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Curtis Soles of Davie's Tropical Firearms said he recently received a shipment of five 1,000-round boxes of .223-caliber rifle cartridges used in the AR-15 and sold all five in one day. Price: $450 a box.
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"People are stocking up because they think they're not going to be able to get it anymore," Soles said.
Fueling the buying spree is uncertainty. Some sport shooters tell dealers they fear certain military-caliber rounds could be unavailable if the Obama administration restores the Clinton-era ban on assault weapons that President George W. Bush allowed to expire. As a candidate, Obama said he favored the ban.
Others voiced concerns about price hikes as the cost of copper and other metals used in the cartridges rises.
At the 911 Store in Hollywood, owner Walter Philbrick said he knows of gun owners who have stockpiled 10,000 rounds or more. "They are buying all they can get," Philbrick said.
While high-caliber ammunition for rifles is most in demand, Larry Smith, general manager of Bass Pro Shops in Dania, said sales have risen "pretty much across the board" to include all ammunition. Smith said that although his store has not run out of any type of ammunition, or had to ration sales, "it's been a challenge to keep up. The supply is limited."
Who is buying?
"Everybody," Servideo said. "Your normal Joe is now buying four, five boxes where before they might have just bought one."
He described buyers as "collectors, sportsmen who shoot targets once or twice a week, and then your guys who are afraid they won't be able to get it later on."
Gun sales have spiked in recent months, according to figures compiled by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms and ammunition industry. Some dealers report a shortage of certain types of handguns, including Glock pistols.
Citing data from the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System, foundation spokesman Ted Novin said the sales of firearms rose by 28.8 percent in January compared to January 2008. The increase follows a 24 percent rise in December and a 42 percent jump in November, when a record 1,529,635 background checks were performed, Novin said.
Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, background checks by gun dealers are designed to identify people prohibited from owning a gun because of a criminal record.
Novin said sales figures for ammunition during the same period were not available. But according to figures from January to September 2008, ammunition sales rose between 15 percent and 20 percent over the same period the previous year.
Novin attributed that rise both to higher prices for copper used in some cartridges, and "the political reasons."
Also alarming to the National Rifle Association and many gun owners are legislative proposals that would require ammunition manufacturers to engrave a serial number on bullets and cartridge casings as a crime-fighting tool. Numbering ammunition would make it more expensive, many gun owners believe.
In [URL="http://www.sun-sentinel.com/community/news/delraybeach?track=tax-delraybeach"]Delray Beach[/URL], Delray Shooting Center manager Scott Bowen said some customers were buying rounds for AR-15s and AK-47s — semi-automatic weapons made to look like military arms — in large quantities.
"I've got guys buying whatever we got, hundreds at a time," Bowen said. "They're scared. We have an anti-gun president and an anti-gun Congress, and the rumor mill is going nuts."
Bowen said his shop has not run out of any type of ammunition. He added that some supply problems may be caused by the demands of the U.S. military.
Servideo said he has begun to limit ammunition sales, permitting customers to buy a case — 1,000 rounds — only if they also buy a gun.
"We are not short here in our shop," Servideo said. "But everything is difficult to find. That's the first time I've seen that in my eight years in the business."
Mike Clary can be reached at mclary@sunsentinel.com or at 305-810-5007.
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"People are stocking up because they think they're not going to be able to get it anymore," Soles said.
Fueling the buying spree is uncertainty. Some sport shooters tell dealers they fear certain military-caliber rounds could be unavailable if the Obama administration restores the Clinton-era ban on assault weapons that President George W. Bush allowed to expire. As a candidate, Obama said he favored the ban.
Others voiced concerns about price hikes as the cost of copper and other metals used in the cartridges rises.
At the 911 Store in Hollywood, owner Walter Philbrick said he knows of gun owners who have stockpiled 10,000 rounds or more. "They are buying all they can get," Philbrick said.
While high-caliber ammunition for rifles is most in demand, Larry Smith, general manager of Bass Pro Shops in Dania, said sales have risen "pretty much across the board" to include all ammunition. Smith said that although his store has not run out of any type of ammunition, or had to ration sales, "it's been a challenge to keep up. The supply is limited."
Who is buying?
"Everybody," Servideo said. "Your normal Joe is now buying four, five boxes where before they might have just bought one."
He described buyers as "collectors, sportsmen who shoot targets once or twice a week, and then your guys who are afraid they won't be able to get it later on."
Gun sales have spiked in recent months, according to figures compiled by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms and ammunition industry. Some dealers report a shortage of certain types of handguns, including Glock pistols.
Citing data from the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System, foundation spokesman Ted Novin said the sales of firearms rose by 28.8 percent in January compared to January 2008. The increase follows a 24 percent rise in December and a 42 percent jump in November, when a record 1,529,635 background checks were performed, Novin said.
Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, background checks by gun dealers are designed to identify people prohibited from owning a gun because of a criminal record.
Novin said sales figures for ammunition during the same period were not available. But according to figures from January to September 2008, ammunition sales rose between 15 percent and 20 percent over the same period the previous year.
Novin attributed that rise both to higher prices for copper used in some cartridges, and "the political reasons."
Also alarming to the National Rifle Association and many gun owners are legislative proposals that would require ammunition manufacturers to engrave a serial number on bullets and cartridge casings as a crime-fighting tool. Numbering ammunition would make it more expensive, many gun owners believe.
In [URL="http://www.sun-sentinel.com/community/news/delraybeach?track=tax-delraybeach"]Delray Beach[/URL], Delray Shooting Center manager Scott Bowen said some customers were buying rounds for AR-15s and AK-47s — semi-automatic weapons made to look like military arms — in large quantities.
"I've got guys buying whatever we got, hundreds at a time," Bowen said. "They're scared. We have an anti-gun president and an anti-gun Congress, and the rumor mill is going nuts."
Bowen said his shop has not run out of any type of ammunition. He added that some supply problems may be caused by the demands of the U.S. military.
Servideo said he has begun to limit ammunition sales, permitting customers to buy a case — 1,000 rounds — only if they also buy a gun.
"We are not short here in our shop," Servideo said. "But everything is difficult to find. That's the first time I've seen that in my eight years in the business."
Mike Clary can be reached at mclary@sunsentinel.com or at 305-810-5007.
Share
Related topic galleries: FBI, Pompano Beach, Larry Smith, Government, Heads of State, Weaponry, Delray Beach
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News breaking now: Click here to get the most up-to-date news stories breaking now.
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Yeah, I know you're not kidding, but realistically, every one of those examples, despite the lack of details, can be ascribed to misperception, misunderstanding, imaginings, wishful thinking, and other such things. A properly hung and balanced door, for instance, will move in a very slight draft, it doesn't require anything you'd feel as a wind. The story about your friend fearing his brother had died and then finding out that he did is confirmation bias and selective thinking. How many times had he had a bad feeling about a loved one that turned out to be false? People don't remember that kind of information, they just remember coincidences that seem to be significant, but without that information, you don't have the complete dataset, you can't conclude anything from that. Under very poor lighting conditions through a window you saw something white that appeared to be moving along a path and interpreted it as being the ghost of your father. That might be pareidolia, it might be wishful thinking, it might have been a reflective or refractive effect on the window glass of a passing vehicle's lights, you don't have enough information to conclude it must have been the ghost of your father. Your 15-year old son jumping in to support you after your uncle and brother said it was nothing, well, that hardly needs explanation, assuming you're a good father and your son loves and respects you, which I do.
You already believed in the reality of ghosts and spirits before any of these things happened, and you've many times shown yourself willing, even eager, to accept a supernatural explanation of events when there are perfectly ordinary explanations available. Even when your claims are easily falsified, like all the junk science threads you've started here based on Al-Hilly's interpretation of the Quran, you cling to the supernatural explanations, and you trust your memory and perceptions far more than you should. They're notoriously unreliable, that's why scientific procedures have such elaborate safeguards against errors in memory and perception. They're not like recordings, they're subject to additions and excisions and modifications and reconstructions over time to conform to other beliefs and values and what people want to be true, these things are well documented. I simply do not believe you're a reliable witness, your biases are too obvious.