Jack Finally Got The Shaft

[Francis2004]

Quoting justfred Does anybody think that a big part of the problem is that we have 5 parties trying to catch the golden ring? We do not need 4 parties on the left, splitting up the left vote and only 1 on the right. If we can analyze what is going on here, if the left and right voters are equal, guess what, each left parties get 12.5% of the first 50% and the right gets the second 50%. Duh.



I guess it's not hard to tell which side of centre the intelligence is located.

OK JLM, what side of centre and why are you refering to ?

 

[Liberalman]

Justfred

According to Elections Canada there is more than a dozen federal parties.

The Conservatives core belief is every man for themselves, they except women because they are good organizers of potluck party dinners and they have the right to vote.

The Liberals core belief is that everyone who is a Canadian is part of a family.

The NDP core belief is your money belongs to everyone.

Canada will always have three main parties when one of the parties decide to take governing seriously then people will vote for a majority.

 

[Praxius]

The Liberals, NDP, Bloc, or the Green Party didn't have anymore foresight than anybody else.

Certainly a lot more then Harper..... how long did it take him to clue in to what they, the Canadian public, the US, and the rest of the world was saying again?

They where all just trying to buy the Seat of Power with your (& my) tax dollars before the election.

That's all any of them ever do.... but who called that pointless election, only to bring us right back into the exact same crap that was the "reason" why the election was called in the first place?

At the time I voted for the party that promised away about 1/25th of what the other Parties where promising to spend (with OUR tax dollars) in vote purchasing promises. I don't think any of them truly had a friggin clue of the scope & magnitude of this economic mess.

Whether or not they understood just how big of a problem there was doesn't really matter in comparison.... the point is, they knew there was a problem.... Harper just lingered around, picking his nose and telling us there's no problem, they prepared for this and took all the measures....... only for them to completely change their position months down the road after everybody else told them the economy is fokked. If he actually gave a damn, he and his party would have looked into the matter a little further, came up with some decent plan, and presented it during the last election.

Instead he gave us squat except the old "Stay the Course" response during the election and everybody sucked it in like gold..... then he screwed around with his political games in the government, rather then presenting any reasonable solution to the problem, delayed government, PR'd the other parties as being the bad guys for wanting to actually do their jobs for once, and then months down the road, he then destroys every single one of his election promises and claims and tosses us a deficit with a budget that won't do a damn thing..... and he designed it so that it wouldn't do a damn thing.

So then when it fails, rather then the Liberals pointing the finger at the Cons for being dumbasses, the Cons can point the finger back and say this was what they wanted and they voted for it at that..... then we're back in another stupid, predictable election between the two asshat parties.... Liberals / Conservatives.

It's so predictable it's pathetic. And what's more pathetic is that there will still be those who suck it all up and vote for them anyways, like the same old routine....

I suppose staying the course falls into other categories of politics too.... oh well.... I guess that's their choice.

I'm still not sold on the shear volume of the Canadian budget as being really necessary in the current proportions. The current budget is set up in such a way that (with so many strings attached) that much of the $$$ supposedly flowing out of it, just will not flow out of it. ALL THE PARTIES DO KNOW THIS, and yet the Budget gets a pass.

Exactly... they all know this, much of the public knows this and those who are currently laid off from their jobs know this very well.... which is why neither the Bloc or the NDP are voting on it..... they may have pre-determined if they would vote on it or not, but it matters not.... their reasons match the proper response.

Jumping back to their reasons, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Harper would just continue to play his little games and provide nothing useful for a budget..... and he did exactly that.

That's some pretty good foresight if you ask me.

And yet...... The Liberals did their Wrestling act on TV of trying to look tough on the Conservatives, yet they still side with the Conservatives and plan to support this joke..... which makes them just as bad as the Conservatives, if not, worse.

Which is why I understand Layton's frustrations and agree with his position, regardless if he had personal intentions of trying to gain some power or not..... he's right..... I agree with him, and as you wrote above, you agree to some degree with him in regards to this budget. And they have every right to turn their backs on the Liberals after this, because all they are doing is dragging us through more of the very same that's causing more and more people in Canada to just not vote anymore.

Layton wasn't talking about dramatic change like the US and Obama.... he was talking about change in that the government might actually start doing its damn job the right way for once.

The $85 Billion dollar predicted deficit is a huge (and ugly) number, and when it settles out at only (I want to puke when I say "only") $50 Billion-ish...it'll be claimed that it's ONLY that much due to Conservative foresight.

After the election, the whole power-play by the three (two with the third having veto power so their loyalty was purchased with all of our tax dollars)

Doesn't matter... they are a Canadian political party (Even if they only represent one part of the nation) voted in by other Canadians.... they are just as ligitamate as any other party in our government, and should have every right to have a say in what occurs in this country.

Not to mention the Conservatives attempted to pull the same stunt as well.... regardless if they actually carried it through or not, they didn't see it as a problem until other parties tried to do the same.... then it was an illegal power grab through the back door with an evil dealing with "Seperatists" OOooooooo Booga booga!

And yet.... This coalition only made it as far as a brain fart, very much like the Conservatives' plans..... but the Libs/NDP/Bloc get more flack over it?

Where's the sense in that? That's hypocracy if I ever saw it.

non-winning Parties was orchestrated by two (OK....one with the other having veto power so their loyalty was purchased with all of our tax dollars) knowing the third party Leader was a very malleable puppet. Ignatius isn't the puppet that Dion was.

The thing is, in the way minority governments work in our democracy, is that the leading party has to reach out to other parties in order to form their own coalitions in order to make the minority last long enough to do something productive..... if the leading party doesn't want to do this, the other parties have the legal right to form their own coalition to make the government work......

.... and yet, Harper either didn't know this, or refused to accept this..... therefore, he should be fired for his great level of incompetence.

People may be knocking Jack Layton here, but I really have to give him his due. Through the month of November, whenever Dion spoke, I could barely see Jacks lips move at all! I swear Jack could probably drink a glass of water and still have somewhat coherent words come from what appeared to be Stephane Dions direction. That takes skill.

Actually I see it more like Jack holding a fragile bottle of Nitro-Glycerin-Dion..... just waiting for him to screw up and blow everything up around him..... which basically happened.

He blew up, destroyed everybody around him..... and suddenly, nobody sees him around anymore..... hmmmm.... odd. :-?

 

[JLM]

OK JLM, what side of centre and why are you refering to ?

Which side of centre is Government?

 

[Praxius]

Ron, your missing the point..

During the Election of Sept / Oct 2008 the Conservatives claimed no economic problems.. All the while saying the budget would be balanced and all would be fine.. This was not true back then as much as it is not true today.. Most parties were saying there were problems and that help was required.

Exactly.... Harper practically lied to the nation, yet again, and went on the promise that nothing was wrong and everything is fine, vote for them and it will remain fine..... people sucked it up, he gained a couple of extra seats...... and now he tells us the truth after it's too late to do anything about it.

For that, he should be fired, if not, jailed. And all the other parties had every right then and there to vote a non-confidence and form a Coalition because of Harper's actions.

I agree with you but if Harper had introduced a budget 1/2 the deficit it is today in Nov 2008 it would probably have done twice the good it will today at the new cost. The faster you catch something like this at the start the better. They either failed, lied or did not want to face the true facts.

Once again, I agree..... everybody else was saying there was a problem even before the summer hit..... yet here it is, Feb 3rd.... and still nothing has gone forward yet to help fix the problem... and the longer we have to wait, the worse it's going to get.

Which was another justified reason for the Coalition because something needed to be done and done soon.... rather then playing around with delaying the government to save Harper's sorry robot ass, and rather then going through another expensive election (Delay yet again on doing something) a Coalition could have been put into place because of this emergency and we probably would have had some results coming out of our government to fix this crap a couple of months ago.

But instead.... here we are.... still waiting.... and what we're waiting for, won't make a licking difference.

Dion's strings may have seemed to be pulled but I doubt that was the case. Dion was certainly not a good TV image man but he was not an idiot most make him out to be. I also don't think Jack is stupid but I do believe he is an opportunistic type of guy and he got sucked in by both Dion, Ignatieff and the Liberal party.. He just failed in his atttempt and is now peeved because it has made him look bad ( hence the Attack Ads ).

Well I see the attack ads (Although I didn't actually see any of them yet) as just another way of continuing the tale of the same two good/bad cop routine people keep getting sucked into.

The odd thing is, in hypothetical speaking here, a few here in the forums said I should run in the government and they'd vote for me..... if hypothetically I was going to run, to be honest, I would probably do much of the same actions as Layton did..... but I have had a chance to explain my reasoning for these actions in these forums..... my reasons so far haven't been political in a way for me to advance myself in a selfish way, because I'm nowhere in the government to advance at this stage, period.

My reasons are because I'm sick and damn tired of the same bullsh*t day in and day out in that government and continually being screwed over.

Yet..... when someone like Layton is in the government and does many of the same things I would probably have done, he's a complainer and whiner because he didn't become Prime Minister?

To me, that seems a bit of a trvial-downplay view on the situation.

(Mind you, there are many things about the NDP and Layton I don't agree with... but his reasons for the Coalition in my books, were justified based on the situation at hand)

 

[Praxius]

Justfred

According to Elections Canada there is more than a dozen federal parties.

The Conservatives core belief is every man for themselves, they except women because they are good organizers of potluck party dinners and they have the right to vote.

Somewhat true.

The Liberals core belief is that everyone who is a Canadian is part of a family.

Oh, how cuddly... I think I'm gonna puke.

The NDP core belief is your money belongs to everyone.

See, I voted for them twice and I've looked into their plans, and I don't ever remember seeing anything claiming the above. Your money is your money, but when it comes to the taxes / money from the government and how it is spent, it shouldn't just be handed out to the rich or just to those who voted you into power.... .that should belong to everyone who put their money into it, when it comes to distribution of that money for programs, development and services..... in that sense, it does belong to everybody, because it is everybody's money.

Why the hell should I pay taxes and put my money forth to a government, when my money goes to the rich assholes out west and nothing is done here where I live?

You're view is obviously biased towards the liberals and you seem to avoid any of the screw ups and screw overs they have done to us in the past..... cuz you know.... we're all one big happy family..... awwww ukeleft: Yeah..... one big happy incest family, and the Liberals are Daddy screwing us over each day of our lives.

Am I biased towards the NDP?

You bet.

Why?

Because they haven't had a chance to screw us over like the other two in the family, therefore I have no justification to sway to another party yet.

When they do, don't worry, you'll hear about it.