Canada talks tough on 'Buy American'

Tyr

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Nov 27, 2008
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One of the dumbest policy decisions to come out of the US in a very long time. Do you think we can throw up an oil embargo?

In a sharply worded letter to Democratic and Republican leaders in the U.S. Senate, the Canadian government warned Monday the United States will "lose the moral authority" to stave off global trade protectionism if it retains controversial "Buy American" provisions in its $819-billion economic stimulus plan.


"If Buy America becomes part of the stimulus legislation, the United States will lose the moral authority to pressure others not to introduce protectionist policies," Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the U.S., said in the letter.


It was sent to Senator Harry Reid, the Democratic majority leader, and Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader.


"A rush of protectionist actions could create a downward spiral like the world experienced in the 1930s," Wilson adds. "We are your largest single customer. If either of our governments were to introduce new barriers or preferences at this time, we would load increased costs and burdens onto businesses, cause delay, disrupt and distort the way businesses have organized themselves in our two countries, and decrease North American competitiveness, thereby killing jobs rather than creating them."


Hours before Wilson's letter was sent to the Senate leader, McConnell had himself publicly urged lawmakers to remove the Buy American clause.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Reasonable enough warning, but even if the US decided to go on with this, I'd still hope Canada doesn't degenerate into tit-for-tat protectionism.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Obama stimulus package is insane. So much pork, so much money going down the drain.

One of my favorites is $4 Billion to ACORN which is the group that registers (and got him elected) the dead, cartoon characters, sports teams, etc. to vote... and vote they do. They are also under investigation for fraud. I bet $4 Billion will get themselves a nice defence team.

$335 Million for the study of sexually transmitted disease...

$400 Million to study Global Warming...

I could go on.

How are these going to stimulate the economy?
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Reasonable enough warning, but even if the US decided to go on with this, I'd still hope Canada doesn't degenerate into tit-for-tat protectionism.


We're not that shallow. If it did come down to it, Canada would be just fine and the USA would be devastated. If Canada cut off hte oil spigot, their economy would grind to a halt in a couple of weeks
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
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38
Sitting at my laptop
Obama stimulus package is insane. So much pork, so much money going down the drain.

One of my favorites is $4 Billion to ACORN which is the group that registers (and got him elected) the dead, cartoon characters, sports teams, etc. to vote... and vote they do. They are also under investigation for fraud. I bet $4 Billion will get themselves a nice defence team.

$335 Million for the study of sexually transmitted disease...

$400 Million to study Global Warming...

I could go on.

How are these going to stimulate the economy?

$292 million tax elimination for the importation of Puero Rican rum. Americans are not adverse to "voodoo" economics or gettin' "sloshed"
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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We're not that shallow. If it did come down to it, Canada would be just fine and the USA would be devastated. If Canada cut off hte oil spigot, their economy would grind to a halt in a couple of weeks

Come now... don't be silly. That has ALWAYS been a threat here on CanCon.

SHUT OFF THE OIL!

SHUT OFF THE WATER!

Even if you did embargo we would get the oil elsewhere. It would never happen.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Come now... don't be silly. That has ALWAYS been a threat here on CanCon.

SHUT OFF THE OIL!

SHUT OFF THE WATER!

Even if you did embargo we would get the oil elsewhere. It would never happen.


What was I thinking!!! You'd get it from Venezuala, Russia and Iran...:lol::smile:
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Come now... don't be silly. That has ALWAYS been a threat here on CanCon.

SHUT OFF THE OIL!

SHUT OFF THE WATER!

Even if you did embargo we would get the oil elsewhere. It would never happen.


Sure, but you'd also pay elsewhere prices. You get gas cheaper than we get gas, and its our gas.

That was one of the things you yanks wanted from Nafta, and thats fine. Fairly agreed to, but don't think if you start stripping your end of the bargain others won't strip theirs.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Eaglet

A simple analogy

"An ongoing trade deficit could be detrimental to the nation’s economy over the long term because it is financed with debt. In other words, the U.S. can buy more than it makes because the countries that it buys from are lending it the money. It is like a party where you’ve run out of money, but the pizza place is willing to keep sending you pizzas and put it on your tab. Of course, this can only go on as long as there are no other customers for the pizza, and the pizza place can afford to loan you the money. One day the lending countries may decide to ask the U.S. to repay the debt. On that day, the party is over."
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
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Backwater, Ontario.
:cool:.....Talkin the goddam talk and walkin the walk is two different things.

Our politicos only know one way of walkin.

How do you spell fellatio??
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
31,670
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Reasonable enough warning, but even if the US decided to go on with this, I'd still hope Canada doesn't degenerate into tit-for-tat protectionism.


All the Canadian Government can do is point out the obvious. We may not
get involved in an economic p*ssing match over this protectionism, but we can
point out what the globe may tumble into....we've seen it before as have the USA
and in turn the Globe in the '30's...

Saudi Arabia has some very large construction companies, and I wonder how
much of the American Debt paper they hold? What will they do?

China has a large steel export market (as do Canada and Australia), and I
wonder how much of the American Debt paper they hold? What will China do?
I can go on and on in this fashion, and I think that's what Canada is trying to
point out. We don't have to threaten, just point out the future using the example
of the past.

What could be even worse than this passing, is the USA giving Canada an exemption
on their "Buy American" clause, and having the rest of the World boycott Canada
when it boycotts America....that would force Canada into the position of having
only one trading partner without tariffs and such...until we're not deemed useful.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
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38
Sitting at my laptop
All the Canadian Government can do is point out the obvious. We may not
get involved in an economic p*ssing match over this protectionism, but we can
point out what the globe may tumble into....we've seen it before as have the USA
and in turn the Globe in the '30's...

Saudi Arabia has some very large construction companies, and I wonder how
much of the American Debt paper they hold? What will they do?

China has a large steel export market (as do Canada and Australia), and I
wonder how much of the American Debt paper they hold? What will China do?
I can go on and on in this fashion, and I think that's what Canada is trying to
point out. We don't have to threaten, just point out the future using the example
of the past.

What could be even worse than this passing, is the USA giving Canada an exemption
on their "Buy American" clause, and having the rest of the World boycott Canada
when it boycotts America....that would force Canada into the position of having
only one trading partner without tariffs and such...until we're not deemed useful.

Chaina holds a lot of American "paper" period and has a firm toehold in their economy. They'd best be nice to whom they ask money from
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
Another point. If the world decides to retaliate against 'Buy American', the US economy will tank even further than where it is now. Where will Canada be left then? It really is in Canada's best interests to talk the US out of this. If they refuse, quite honestly, there'd be no point for Canada to retaliate if the rest of the world does.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
31,670
11,481
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Another point. If the world decides to retaliate against 'Buy American', the US economy will tank even further than where it is now. Where will Canada be left then? It really is in Canada's best interests to talk the US out of this. If they refuse, quite honestly, there'd be no point for Canada to retaliate if the rest of the world does.


That was the point I was aiming at. I guess I was too round about. Thank
You going straight to the point. If the rest of the World retaliates, Canada
will get sucked in to the downfall with our relative position to America as
our current largest trading partner.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
That was the point I was aiming at. I guess I was too round about. Thank
You going straight to the point. If the rest of the World retaliates, Canada
will get sucked in to the downfall with our relative position to America as
our current largest trading partner.

But this also negates the need for other countries to attack Canada directly. Even if other countries respect their agreements with Canada but retaliate against the US alone, we're still going to suffer. OK, the US will suffer even more because at least in principle Canada could still try to build new trade relations with the other countries, which the US couldn't do. Also, once the recession is over, even if free trade with the US resumes again, Canada will have taken the world market for North America and the US would lose out on that one.

But all of that would be but small consolation to Canada in the meantime.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
31,670
11,481
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Here's a bit of a different look at Canada's warning to the USA. Once the
large scale protectionism starts, it can quickly become a game of Russian
Roulette. Lines are already being draw, and the Senate has yet to add their
two bits.

Who'll call in their loans, cash in their chips, and take their exports (and spend
their import dollars) elsewhere?

Prime Minister Taro Aso of Japan was among several leaders at the World Economic
Conference in Davos, Switzerland, to denounce economic nationalism, saying,
"We will resolutely fight protectionism."
(Japan holds 577+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)

A spokesman for Catherine Ashton, the EU trade commissioner, said: "We are looking
at the situation. The one thing we can be absolutely certain about, is if a bill is
passed which prohibits the sale or purchase of European goods on American
territory, that is something we will not stand idly by and ignore."
(The U.K. holds 360 BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Luxembourg holds 75 BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Switzerland holds 63 BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Norway holds 59+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Ireland holds 35+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Italy holds 14+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(The Netherlands hold 12+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Belguim holds 12+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Sweden holds 11 BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Germany holds 43+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities)
(Poland holds 12+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities)

Mainland China still hasn't spoken out yet....Big Steel Exporter too.
(Mainland China holds 681+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)

Has Russia spoken out yet? Russia is a big Steel Exporter.
(Russia holds 78+ BILLION$ in US Treasury Securities)

Carribbean Banking Centers (?) hold 220+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Who's toes will be stepped on here? How will they react?

Oil Exporters (?) hold 198 Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Who's toes will be stepped on here? How will they react?

South America
Brazil holds 129+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.

Chile holds 14+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.

[SIZE=+0]Asia[/SIZE]
Honk Kong holds 66 Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Korea holds 28+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Taiwan holds 43+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Singapore holds 37+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Thailand holds 35+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
India holds 16+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.

The Middle East
Turkey holds 28+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
even Egypt, chronic collector of U.S. aid... holds 15+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
31,670
11,481
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Carribbean Banking Centers (?) hold 220+ Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Who's toes will be stepped on here? How will they react?


Caribbean Banking Centers = Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands,
Netherlands Antilles, Panama and the British Virgin Islands in this case...


Oil Exporters (?) hold 198 Billion$ in US Treasury Securities.
Who's toes will be stepped on here? How will they react?


Oil exporters include Ecuador, Venezuela, Indonesia, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq (ironic, eh),
Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Gabon,
Libya, and Nigeria in this case...

Politics (& Finance) make some pretty strange bedfellows.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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USA
What was I thinking!!! You'd get it from Venezuala, Russia and Iran...:lol::smile:

Witty... but it is just that. We already get it from Venezuela for starters. Canada isn't the only country that sells oil to the US and who are you going to make up the difference with?

Canada is the biggest supplier of oil to the US. Saudi is number 2, followed by Mexico then Venezuela. Your economy will come to a grinding halt. Put a smiley face on the end of that.
 
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