How should Canada respond to protectionism?

How should Canada respond to rising US protectionism?

  • Start a trade war (i.e. fight tit for tat).

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Shift taxes to natural resources.

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Do nothing.

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Other option.

    Votes: 7 58.3%

  • Total voters
    12

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
That's something I can agree to, and that's one reason I'd oppose tariffs or other forms of discriminatory trade barriers against the US even if they should introduce some against Canada.

In some ways, the US is suffering more than Canada is at the moment, and needs some extra help. Besides, another point is that the US government is introducing a much larger stimulus package than Canada as a percentage of its GDP. This means that Canada could benefit from the US stimulus package more than the US would benefit from the Canadian stimulus package. So it's natural that Americans figure that if they're going to carry all that debt, they might as well get something out of it.

Besides, as I'd mentioned before, even with a moderate US barrier minus any Canadian retaliation, Canada would still benefit significantly from the US stimulus package, with at least some fo that money trickling over to the Canadian side.
I totally agree. They aren't taking on more public debt to buy Canadian made goods. If it didn't create jobs in the US it would be pointless, and it wouldn't happen. So Canada would be in the same position without the stimulus package. With the package we can hopefully ride the economic coattail in other ways.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
I totally agree. They aren't taking on more public debt to buy Canadian made goods. If it didn't create jobs in the US it would be pointless, and it wouldn't happen. So Canada would be in the same position without the stimulus package. With the package we can hopefully ride the economic coattail in other ways.

One thing I would like to see would be for Canada to promote more labour-mobility agreements with the WTO. This could also give the US a chance to have trade barriers withut necessarily being unfair. In this way, it would be saying that it would be keeping jobs in the US, but Canadians are welcome to work in the US with just a passport and no visa (and of course Canada would be absolutely expected to reciprocate). This could also help certain qualified professionals on both sides to fill labour shortages in each others' respective countries, thus helping fight labour shortages in certain fields and unemployment, two birds with one stone. And doing this with the WTO could allow other nations to join in too. This would also have the added advantage of discouraging trade wars in the long term because after all if workers can just cross the border to get jobs, then what's the point of trying to take jobs away from other countries if the workers can just folow along?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,465
11,204
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Canada can avoid a Trade War with the USA, as it imposes Trade barriers against
us and others. That would be a good thing for the USA in the short term, if not for
us. It would be nothing new, like softwood lumbers 27% tariff that went on for years
despite NAFTA.

If the US blocks our (and that of everyone else) exports of iron and steel items, and potentially
most manufactured goods, Canada (and that of everyone else) can still sell them our natural
raw resources, and purchase America's manufactured goods. That would be good for the
American economy. That would avoid a trade war as long as everyone but America does
the 'turn the other economic cheek' so that America can rebuilt its economy at everyone
else's expense...and avoid a replay of the Great Depression for America.

Canada can do this, but is the rest of the World willing to do this? 95% of the population
of the planet resides outside of the USA, but the USA is the largest consumer market. If
the USA will only accept raw natural resources, will the rest of the World accept that?

Would every industrialized nation still allow the USA into their markets to partake in their
economic stimulus packages to rebuild their economies, knowing that they're excluded from
that same American market? That would be good for the American economy.

If the World goes along with this American protectionism, what incentive will the USA have
to drop this "Buy American" program in the future?

Will China, who holds a monstrous amount of the paper on the American debt, and is
a major steel and manufactured goods exporter, go along with this? What would a store
chain like Walmart even have to offer for sale and at what price?

If Canada takes a very economically doormat-ish position and accepts another violation
of established trade agreements to avoid a trade war with America, and the rest of the
worlds economies don't, America will have 'protected' three million jobs directly related
to the steel and iron industries, but at the expense of the fifty-seven million jobs directly
tied to international trade. I sincerely hope that America thinks this through over the
weekend and avoids any of the questions I'm asking from ever having to be answered.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Canada can avoid a Trade War with the USA, as it imposes Trade barriers against us and others. That would be a good thing for the USA in the short term, if not for us. It would be nothing new, like softwood lumbers 27% tariff that went on for years despite NAFTA.

And on that front they likely shot themselves in the foot. I don;t have the research, but I wouldn't be surprised if the drop in Canadian lumber exports to the US caused the US lumber industry to grow, thus creating competition for workers (before the rescession of course) between the lumber and other more labour-intensive industries. With that, lumber would have grown at the expense of other industries in the US. In Canada at the time when we were not in recession, it would have freed lumber workers to look for work in more labour-intensive industries such as furniture making or other. Why would we want to export raw materials to the US rather than add some labour value to them? On this one, Bush did us a favour and hurt his own economy while trying to do just the opposite! Typical Bush.

If the US blocks our (and that of everyone else) exports of iron and steel items, and potentially most manufactured goods, Canada (and that of everyone else) can still sell them our natural raw resources, and purchase America's manufactured goods. That would be good for the American economy. That would avoid a trade war as long as everyone but America does the 'turn the other economic cheek' so that America can rebuilt its economy at everyone else's expense...and avoid a replay of the Great Depression for America.

Now that's one reason I'd suggested simply shifting our taxes to resources from income. This way, we'd be making our resources more expensive and thus discourage people from buying Canadian resources. The lower income tax could help promote manufactured goods and the service industry without having to engage in a trade war as such, since in this way we would not really be saying that we won't import US goods, but merely restructuring our economy so that protectionism or not, it would be more conducive to a more developed economy rather than just strip-mining and forestry and petrol.

Canada can do this, but is the rest of the World willing to do this? 95% of the population of the planet resides outside of the USA, but the USA is the largest consumer market. If the USA will only accept raw natural resources, will the rest of the World accept that? Would every industrialized nation still allow the USA into their markets to partake in their economic stimulus packages to rebuild their economies, knowing that they're excluded from that same American market? That would be good for the American economy.

If the US chooses to accept nothing but natural resources, the US would hurt itself too. After all, if for example a Canadian company wants to be competitive, it wants to buy the best tools, and if the US produces the best tools for that industry, then it would make sense to buy those tools. But if a US company can't do that and buy the best tools even if they come from Canada, then their companies would fall behind in inefficiency in the long term. This could only stunt their development. By shifting our taxes to resources, that would be one step towards protecting our manufacturing base without outright blocking imports of US manufactrued goods. Another point to make is that even if the US manages to block all imports to the US while still managine some exports, that would simply push the value of the US dollar up against ours until they'd find themselves priced out of the market. THey'd be shooting themselves in the foot again.

If the World goes along with this American protectionism, what incentive will the USA have to drop this "Buy American" program in the future? Will China, who holds a monstrous amount of the paper on the American debt, and is a major steel and manufactured goods exporter, go along with this? What would a store chain like Walmart even have to offer for sale and at what price?

Efficiency. Over time, the US economy would make itself more inefficient through protectionism. Yes, it would be making ours more inefficient too, but generally speaking protectionism can protect one industry only by sacrificing another. And if it tries to protect all industries, it will fail. Something will have to give.

If Canada takes a very economically doormat-ish position and accepts another violation of established trade agreements to avoid a trade war with America, and the rest of the worlds economies don't, America will have 'protected' three million jobs directly related to the steel and iron industries, but at the expense of the fifty-seven million jobs directly tied to international trade. I sincerely hope that America thinks this through over the weekend and avoids any of the questions I'm asking from ever having to be answered.

America might manage to protect the steel industry, but woudl sacrifice another industry in the process. After all, by protecting the steel industry, it's taking workers away from other industries. They might not be noticing it now because they're in recession, but they will notice it when a boom comes along. Then a bloated and inefficient steel industry could prove an incumbrance rather than a blessing. Canada's steel industry might suffer in the process, but that would free workers for other industries. If we recognize the basic principle that a tariff hurts both the protecting nation and the exporting nation, then a trade war becomes pointless, because America's own tariffs work against it. Trade wars have no basis in sound economic theory. They're pure political maneuvering in childish democracies, vote-buyers if you will. Instead, let the US hurt us (I'm including the US itself in this 'us'). Instead, let's provide sufficient funding to educate our workers in growing trades and industries. I normally don't support the NDP on most points, but I would love to see the NDP decide on how much funding to provide for education in trades and professions, even if the Conservatives could decide on other points. Though I'd like the NDP decide on military funding too.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
36
48
Toronto
Put tariffs on products coming into Canada like before the free trade agreements, which will bring manufacturing jobs back to Canada.

Bring in a law that says if it is sold in Canada it must be made here.

The tariffs must apply to all goods coming into this country including Canadian companies that are manufacturing their goods in other countries.

I never agreed with the global economy because jobs are lost and others are created which pay lower wages.

If I was a experienced tailor or a shoemaker for twenty-five years why should I have to lose my job because the company I work for decides to move their company to another country and why should I have to retrain myself at my expense and find out that I am too old to work anywhere else.

Outsourcing to other countries should be considered as a dirty word because it takes away from our economy.

Obama is doing the right thing for this economic time and Canada has to do the same if we are to survive this.

I don’t usually agree with the NDP and their bolshevik views but Jack Layton the leader of the NDP did say
“What’s wrong with making all the products we sell in this country in Canada?”

If anyone can tell me what’s wrong with bringing back the jobs to Canada tell me, I want to know.
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Canada should take a wait and see approach with legislation prepared to protect Canada in the same way or penalize those willing to hurt us.

You take away our steel, we take away our Natural resources to those willing to pay much more on the open market for the commodity.

Simply put many of the measures do not even consider Canada in many cases and even when they do they usually are ineffective. The reality that the US had to impose extremely high punitive duties toward Canada on softwood and it was still flowing South is only proof you cannot stop demand for good product.

However if you want to really hurt countries that "dump cheap product" make everyone meet tough standards that most of us already meet or exceed..

Oh by the way I remember the "Buy Canadian First Policy" we had with no one complaining.. In Fact I believe it was still in place recently and made media attention when Canadian flags for Canada day were made elsewhere..
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Put tariffs on products coming into Canada like before the free trade agreements, which will bring manufacturing jobs back to Canada.

Bring in a law that says if it is sold in Canada it must be made here.

The tariffs must apply to all goods coming into this country including Canadian companies that are manufacturing their goods in other countries.

I never agreed with the global economy because jobs are lost and others are created which pay lower wages.

If I was a experienced tailor or a shoemaker for twenty-five years why should I have to lose my job because the company I work for decides to move their company to another country and why should I have to retrain myself at my expense and find out that I am too old to work anywhere else.

Outsourcing to other countries should be considered as a dirty word because it takes away from our economy.

Obama is doing the right thing for this economic time and Canada has to do the same if we are to survive this.

I don’t usually agree with the NDP and their bolshevik views but Jack Layton the leader of the NDP did say
“What’s wrong with making all the products we sell in this country in Canada?”

If anyone can tell me what’s wrong with bringing back the jobs to Canada tell me, I want to know.

I fully agree. We could grow bananas in Alberta in greenhouses built on oil sites. The heat from the gas should keep them warm all winter. Same with coconuts, pineapples and mangoes. I fully agree:roll: