Israel pounds Gaza, death toll well over 100 and climbing

Zzarchov

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Additionally, Ghandi and the others never advocated begging or dying on your knees. You obviously don't understand how non-violence works. You stand tall, look your adversary in the eye and refuse to submit to their injustice and oppression. You make your opponent see you as a fellow human being who can feel pain and suffer.
Nonviolence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If a soldier is wise, they will lower their weapon and refuse to harm a non-violent protestor. If they don't consider the consequences of their violent actions carefully, they may harm or even kill a non-violent protestor. But that's when non-violent resistance becomes the most effective.

People who harm or kill unarmed non-violent people will be haunted by their conscience. You know in your heart that what you did was wrong. The guilt and shame follows you around your entire life like a weight on your neck. Over time, it eats at your very soul. People have been known to commit suicide just to escape the painful burden.

Yes, moral people do that.

Others rejoice that their dehumanized opponent has been killed (see most palestinian militants). Firing rockets to coincide with school getting out is an example of that.

Non-violence does mean you will drop to your knees rather than fight. Even when Non-violent supporters of Ghandi were being assailed and beaten until they couldn't walk they didn't "rise up and fight" they just took it.

Firing rockets is not acceptable, once they fired the first rocket, anything that came back to them they earned. Don't start a fight if you don't want one.

Abbas and the west bank are faring far better than Gaza, the difference being co-operation rather than violence. You're disdain that the West Bank is so much better as somehow "collaborating" shows a lack of desire to see reality. The west bank is improving while gaza is detereorating.
 

earth_as_one

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How vulnerable is Israel really? They are probably the world's 4th most powerful military and they possess nuclear weapons. Are you trying to tell me they face a mortal threat from Gazans?

The reality is that what used to be a peaceful province of the Ottoman empire where Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in relative peace has been turned into a war zone. Zionists have ethnically cleansed non-Jews in what used to be Palestine into ever smaller enclaves. Today what remains of Palestine resembles a series of concentration camps:

Land owned by Jews in white.



How the UN divided Palestine between Jews and non-Jews.


Palestine after the 1947-1948 ethnic cleansing war. About 800,000 Arabs were cleansed from the Israeli side. About 10,000 Jews were cleansed from the Arab side. In violation of international law, Israel prevented Arab refugees from returning home and seized their property (Land, homes, bank accounts, furniture, family portraits...) and awarded it to Jews. Israel gets statehood, Palestine doesn't. Its occupied by Jordan and Egypt.



During the 1967 war, Israel seized the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt. After the 1967 war, Israel began annexing land in the "occupied territories" and settling them with Jewish only settlements in violation of international law.


Israel has never stopped razing Palestinian homes, seizing Palestinian land and building Jewish only settlements in the West Bank. Israel did pull Israeli settlements from Gaza, but only after the people in Gaza became so hostile and violent toward the Jewish settlers, that defending them became impractical. Israel pulled out of Gaza and put a wall around Gaza, turning it into the world's largest prison. Effectively Gaza's 1.5 million inhabitants live in a concentration camp where Israel controls how much food and medicine they get. Lately, it hasn't been much and starving Gazans have become desperate.



I can see Israel on the last map. Where is Palestine now? I can see it on the first map, but as far as I can tell it doesn't exist anymore. It appears now to be just a series of concentration camps.

Yes one group of people is being cleansed by the other and faces an existencial threat, but its not Israel.
 
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earth_as_one

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The current Gaza bombing campaign isn't in response to attacks since 2000. They are in response to attacks since the start of a "truce" six months ago, which hadn't killed a single Israeli until after Israel killed 200 Gazans four days ago.

But if you want to count bodies since 2000, sure lets count them:

At least 4,897 Palestinians and 1,062 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.


American news reports repeatedly describe Israeli military attacks against the Palestinian population as “retaliation.” However, when one looks into the chronology of death in this conflict, the reality turns out to be quite different.​


Source: B'Tselem, The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories. (Visit their statistics page.) Their statistics cover through November 30, 2008.

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000
 

Zzarchov

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Are you trying to tell me they face a mortal threat from Gazans?

You mean besides the citizens being hit by rocket fire, some of whom died.

That is the definition of a mortal threat you know.

I know I would expect, that if someone murdered me, a taxpaying Canadian citizen, in my own home or in a public place, I would expect the government to take action against it, even if that included lethal force.

Its called basic law and order.

You don't need to pose a mortal threat to an entire nation to have that nation use deadly force against you, you need to pose a mortal threat to at least 1 citizen.

Thats the way it works in every country on this planet.

And like every other country on this planet, if you are nearby someone on a killing spree, there is a good chance you will die in the crossfire. As happens in Canada and every other country which has undergone such an occurance.
 

earth_as_one

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Yes, moral people do that.

Others rejoice that their dehumanized opponent has been killed (see most palestinian militants). Firing rockets to coincide with school getting out is an example of that.

Non-violence does mean you will drop to your knees rather than fight. Even when Non-violent supporters of Ghandi were being assailed and beaten until they couldn't walk they didn't "rise up and fight" they just took it.

Firing rockets is not acceptable, once they fired the first rocket, anything that came back to them they earned. Don't start a fight if you don't want one.

Abbas and the west bank are faring far better than Gaza, the difference being co-operation rather than violence. You're disdain that the West Bank is so much better as somehow "collaborating" shows a lack of desire to see reality. The west bank is improving while gaza is detereorating.

Extermists exist on both sides of this conflict. Some of them will never recognize their adversaries as human, but they are a minority on both sides. Their actions will eventually disgust and demoralize everyone around them. They will become isolated and powerless. The non-violent resistor wins.

A determined non-violent protestor will never beg on their knees. That would contribute to their dehumanization and empower their adversary. They will stand on their feet and maintain their dignity as long as they can. If they are knocked down, they get back up. They know that each time they get up after a beating, it is another victory. It is true that eventually they may not be able to get up, in which case they are either injured or dead. If they die, they die with dignity and take a part of their adversary's conscience with them. If they live, they heal themselves and come back to fight. The non-violent resistor wins.

How long could you beat and kill unarmed non-violent protestors Z? Think about it.

Eventually persistent non-violent resistance leads to freedom and justice.
 

Scott Free

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You mean besides the citizens being hit by rocket fire, some of whom died.

That is the definition of a mortal threat you know.

I know I would expect, that if someone murdered me, a taxpaying Canadian citizen, in my own home or in a public place, I would expect the government to take action against it, even if that included lethal force.

Its called basic law and order.

You don't need to pose a mortal threat to an entire nation to have that nation use deadly force against you, you need to pose a mortal threat to at least 1 citizen.

Thats the way it works in every country on this planet.

And like every other country on this planet, if you are nearby someone on a killing spree, there is a good chance you will die in the crossfire. As happens in Canada and every other country which has undergone such an occurance.

The case you make is false. This isn't one nation attacking another. This is rocket fire coming from a concentration camp aimed at the people who made the camp by the people trapped in it.
 

Tyr

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Nov 27, 2008
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I bet you both would have said the same thing about George Washington.

Speaking of Presidents... Where's General George Bush in all this hubbub? Here's his chance to do at least one thing positive with his dismal eight yers in office. Broker a ceasefire.

Maybe he's busy getting fitted for new golf clubs?
 

earth_as_one

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You mean besides the citizens being hit by rocket fire, some of whom died.

That is the definition of a mortal threat you know.

I know I would expect, that if someone murdered me, a taxpaying Canadian citizen, in my own home or in a public place, I would expect the government to take action against it, even if that included lethal force.

Its called basic law and order.

You don't need to pose a mortal threat to an entire nation to have that nation use deadly force against you, you need to pose a mortal threat to at least 1 citizen.

Thats the way it works in every country on this planet.

And like every other country on this planet, if you are nearby someone on a killing spree, there is a good chance you will die in the crossfire. As happens in Canada and every other country which has undergone such an occurance.

Israel does not face a mortal threat. Individual Israelis were terrorized in the last six months, a few were wounded even, but none were killed until after Israel killed more than 200 Gazans.

I agree that Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks even if they don't kill anyone. A good start would be stop provoking the militants and stick to your agreements. When Israel assassinates people, or starves millions of people, they must expect a response, truce or no truce.

Palestinians have the same right to defend themselves as Israelis. But I've never heard you or any Israeli apologists recognize this. They focus on Israel's rights and ignore the rights of Palestinians.

I stated that rocket attacks are war crimes and starving 1.5 million people is a crime against humanity. You seem only able to see the rocket attacks. Do Palestinians have a right to food, medicine and security? If these things are denied, do they have a right to fight for them?

IMO, proportionality is an important part of whether an action is justified or a war crime. So how many people can Israel kill in response to rocket attacks which never killed anyone...? Would killing 1.5 million Gazans with nuclear weapons be justified or a war crime?
 

earth_as_one

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Speaking of Presidents... Where's General George Bush in all this hubbub? Here's his chance to do at least one thing positive with his dismal eight yers in office. Broker a ceasefire.

Maybe he's busy getting fitted for new golf clubs?

Broker a ceasefire? Are you kidding?

He called the Israeli collaborator, President Abbas who is on permanent vacation paid for by the US and Israel.

...It was the first time that Bush had spoken with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Salam Fayyad since Israel started bombarding Gaza on Saturday. Abbas' Fatah faction is a rival to the Islamist Palestinian group Hamas.

"President Bush and the two Palestinian leaders discussed their efforts for a sustainable cease-fire. They agreed that for any cease-fire to be effective, it must be respected, particularly by Hamas," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

The Bush administration, with three weeks left in office, has backed Israeli actions to target Hamas and has not called for a stop to the four days of air strikes that have killed more than 350 Palestinians.
President-elect Barack Obama, on vacation in Hawaii, has not commented on the Gaza violence...

Bush calls Palestinian leaders on Gaza violence | Reuters
 

earth_as_one

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Repost:

What used to be a peaceful province of the Ottoman empire where Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in relative peace has been turned into a war zone. Zionists have ethnically cleansed non-Jews in what used to be Palestine into ever smaller enclaves. Today what remains of Palestine resembles a series of concentration camps:

Land owned by Jews in white.



How the UN divided Palestine between Jews and non-Jews.


Palestine after the 1947-1948 ethnic cleansing war. About 800,000 Arabs were cleansed from the Israeli side. About 10,000 Jews were cleansed from the Arab side. In violation of international law, Israel prevented Arab refugees from returning home and seized their property (Land, homes, bank accounts, furniture, family portraits...) and awarded it to Jews. Israel gets statehood, Palestine doesn't. Its occupied by Jordan and Egypt.



During the 1967 war, Israel seized the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt. After the 1967 war, Israel began annexing land in the "occupied territories" and settling them with Jewish only settlements in violation of international law.


Israel has never stopped razing Palestinian homes, seizing Palestinian land and building Jewish only settlements in the West Bank. Israel did pull Israeli settlements from Gaza, but only after the people in Gaza became so hostile and violent toward the Jewish settlers, that defending them became impractical. Israel pulled out of Gaza and put a wall around Gaza, turning it into the world's largest prison. Effectively Gaza's 1.5 million inhabitants live in a concentration camp where Israel controls how much food and medicine they get. Lately, it hasn't been much and starving Gazans have become desperate.



I can see Israel on the last map. Where is Palestine now? I can see it on the first map, but as far as I can tell it doesn't exist anymore. It appears now to be just a series of concentration camps.

Yes one group of people is being cleansed by the other and faces an existencial threat, but its not Israel.[/quote]
 

Canaduh

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Mar 7, 2008
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Repost:

What used to be a peaceful province of the Ottoman empire where Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in relative peace has been turned into a war zone. Zionists have ethnically cleansed non-Jews in what used to be Palestine into ever smaller enclaves. Today what remains of Palestine resembles a series of concentration camps:

Land owned by Jews in white.



How the UN divided Palestine between Jews and non-Jews.


Palestine after the 1947-1948 ethnic cleansing war. About 800,000 Arabs were cleansed from the Israeli side. About 10,000 Jews were cleansed from the Arab side. In violation of international law, Israel prevented Arab refugees from returning home and seized their property (Land, homes, bank accounts, furniture, family portraits...) and awarded it to Jews. Israel gets statehood, Palestine doesn't. Its occupied by Jordan and Egypt.



During the 1967 war, Israel seized the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt. After the 1967 war, Israel began annexing land in the "occupied territories" and settling them with Jewish only settlements in violation of international law.


Israel has never stopped razing Palestinian homes, seizing Palestinian land and building Jewish only settlements in the West Bank. Israel did pull Israeli settlements from Gaza, but only after the people in Gaza became so hostile and violent toward the Jewish settlers, that defending them became impractical. Israel pulled out of Gaza and put a wall around Gaza, turning it into the world's largest prison. Effectively Gaza's 1.5 million inhabitants live in a concentration camp where Israel controls how much food and medicine they get. Lately, it hasn't been much and starving Gazans have become desperate.



I can see Israel on the last map. Where is Palestine now? I can see it on the first map, but as far as I can tell it doesn't exist anymore. It appears now to be just a series of concentration camps.

Yes one group of people is being cleansed by the other and faces an existencial threat, but its not Israel.
[/quote]

You should work for the media, its quite funny how you left the part about Arabs killing jews en masse to "make" palestine in the first place.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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You should work for the media, its quite funny how you left the part about Arabs killing jews en masse to "make" palestine in the first place.[/quote]

Which Palestine are you talking about?
...the one referred to of Biblical times?
...the Ottoman Empire state?
...the jurisdiction administrated by Britain after WW1?
...the land offered up for a Jewish state?
 

earth_as_one

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Quoting Sensfan:

You should work for the media, its quite funny how you left the part about Arabs killing jews en masse to "make" palestine in the first place.

When did that happen? The Jewish Holocaust happened in Europe. European and Christians have a history of killing Jews enmasse, not Arabs or Muslims.

You should judge Palestinians by their actions, not the actions of others. Until Zionism, Arabs in Palestine were a model of peaceful co-existance and religious tolerance for their time.

From an Israeli website
...Since 1492, through five centuries, the Ottoman sultans and the modern day Turkish Republic, welcomed the Jews and offered them a safe haven from persecution in the European countries. The Ottoman Empire at its zenith became one the largest empires in World History covering most of Mediterranean basin region extending from North Africa to Eastern Europe. It has been suggested that one of the characteristics that extended the domination of the Ottoman Empire was its allowance of religious freedom for the different nationalities and minorities under its rule. While many European nations expelled, persecuted or tried to convert the Jews under their dominion, the Turkish people of the Ottoman Empire, remained as an outstanding example of tolerance of different nationalities with different religions...

...as I became more knowledgeable and could compare cultures and countries around the globe with the passing of age and experience, we became much more appreciative of the benevolence of the Turkish people who harbored the Jewish people through incredibly barbaric times in the annals of European history. In retrospect of what we know of European history today, we owe Turkish people a great debt of gratitude for saving the lives of thousands of Jews...
Brief History of Turkish Jews

Palestinians of all faiths (Muslims, Christians, Jews...) lived together in peace until the Zionists showed up. Zionists believe God gave Palestine to the Jews and they have a right to claim it by any means.

By 1947, Zionism meant slaughtering Arabs enmasse:

First person testimony of the April 1948 Deir Yassin massacre by a member of the Haganah:
Deir Yassin - Meir Pail's Version

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe

Not much has changed:

Bangladesh Independent News
December 31, 2008

History of massacre after massacre in Palestine
by Nizar Sakhnini

Massacres were part and parcel of the Zionist project in Palestine. They aimed at intimidating the Arabs and make them leave the country.

Dozens of massacres were committed against the Arabs starting with the Massacre at Baldat al-Shaikh in December 1947 and not ending with the massacres in Qana in South Lebanon in 1996 and 2006. Another brutal massacre is being committed in Gaza today. Hundreds of Palestinian Arabs have been killed and/or wounded. Given below, is a list of some of the massacres committed by the Zionists since 1947:

Massacre in Baldat al-Shaikh (31 December 1947): Haganah gang members stormed the village of Baldat al-Shaikh in pursuit of unarmed citizens. The death toll was about 600 people, most of whose corpses were found inside the houses of the village.

Massacre in Deir Yassin (10 April 1948): A brutal massacre was committed in Deir Yassin: over 250 men, women and children were killed.

Massacre in Lid (11 July 1948): A commando unit led by Moshe Dayan carried out this massacre. The unit stormed the city in the evening and many of the Arab citizens of the city took refuge from the attack in the Dahmash Mosque. The Zionists reached the mosque and killed 176 civilians who took refuge to the mosque raising the victims of the massacre in Lid to 426 Palestinian Arabs.

Once the slaughter had come to an end, the unarmed civilians were led to the city's sports stadium, where the young men were detained. Then the families were given a mere half-hour to leave the city for the area where the Jordanian Army was located. They were to go there on foot and without food or water, which caused the deaths of many women, children and elderly people.

Massacre in the Village of Eilaboun (30 October 1948): The village was attacked on October 29, 1948. The Israeli forces managed to enter the town at five o'clock am on October 30.

The people of Elabun took refuge in the two local churches where yellow and white flags of submission were flown. Marcos Daoud, the Greek Catholic priest, told the Israelis, "I put my village under the protection of the State of Israel". The Israeli answer was as follows:

1. Thirteen young men were murdered.

2. The surviving young men were taken as PoWs.

3. The women and children were marched off to the Lebanese border under severe conditions, which resulted in many casualties.

4. Looting and desecration of the churches followed the evacuation of the village.

Massacre in Dawayma (15 October 1948): Operation Ten Plagues was launched against the Egyptians in the South. Mass murder took place in many of the towns on the southern front during the October offensive. One of the worst massacres during the offensive took place at Dawayma.

The American Consul in Jerusalem, William Burdett, had heard about the visit of the UN team to Dawayma. After making inquiries, on 6 November, he reported to Washington, "Investigation by UN indicates massacre occurred but observers are unable to determine number of persons involved". Estimates vary considerably but probably about 300 Arab civilians were slaughtered in the town. The Massacre at Qibya (14 October 1953): The fatalities from the massacre numbered 67, including men, women and children, while hundreds of others were injured.

The Massacre at Kufr Qasim (29 October 1956): A curfew was imposed on the village of Kufr Qasim, after which a number of children and elderly people took off to inform the young men who were working in the fields outside the village about the curfew. However, the forces stationed outside the village killed them in cold blood, murdering the young men before they could reach the village. The death toll for this massacre came to 49 civilians, including a number of children and elderly people.

Massacre at Sabra and Shatila (18 September 1982): A plan had been laid to storm the Sabra and Shatila camps for Palestinian refugees in the Beirut area since the first day of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Its purpose was to weaken the Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut and force the Palestinians to emigrate outside Lebanon.

Before sundown on Thursday, September 16, 1982, the storming of the camps began. The massacre itself, which was carried out by the Lebanese kata'ib (Falangist) militia, continued for approximately 36 hours. During the operation, the Israeli army surrounded the camps, preventing anyone from entering or leaving. In addition, the occupation soldiers set off incandescent bombs by night to facilitate the militia's mission. The Zionist soldiers also provided other logistical services to the Maronite militiamen during the massacre.

Information about the massacre began to leak out after a number of children and women fled to the Gaza hospital in the Shatila camp, where they informed doctors of what was happening. News of the massacre likewise reached some foreign journalists on Friday morning, September 17, 1982. The bloodletting went on until noon on Saturday, September 18.

Three thousand two hundred ninety-seven (3,297) men, women and children were killed within forty hours, between September 16-18, 1982. Among the dead bodies, 136 Lebanese were found; 1,800 victims were killed in the streets and alleys of the camp, while 1,097 were killed in the Gaza Hospital and 400 others in the Akka Hospital.

Commenting on the massacre, Menachem Begin described the Palestinian resistance fighters to the Israeli Knesset as "animals that walk on two legs".Massacre at the Ibrahimi Mosque (25 February 1994): Before worshippers had completed the dawn prayer in the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron, the blast of hand grenades exploding and the sound of bullet spray filled the mosque. Bullets and splinters from the grenades pierced the heads, necks and backs of the worshippers, wounding more than 350.

The crime began when terrorist Baroukh Goldstein and a group of Jewish settlers from the Kiryat Arba settlement entered the mosque. Goldstein was carrying his military machine gun and hand grenades along with large amounts of ammunition. He stood behind one of the pillars in the mosque and waited until the worshippers had prostrated, then opened machine gun fire on them. Meanwhile, others helped him load the ammunition, which included the internationally banned explosive dumdum lead. Goldstein carried out the massacre at a time when Zionist soldiers had closed the mosque doors to prevent worshippers from fleeing. They also prevented those coming from outside the mosque precincts from coming in to rescue the wounded. Later, others were shot to death by occupation soldiers outside the mosque and at the cemetery during the funeral processions of those who had been martyred in the mosque. The massacre led to fifty deaths, twenty-nine of which occurred inside the mosque.

The Massacre at Qana (18 April 1996): The Israeli artillery and helicopters shelled a shelter inside the Fijian battalion working within the UN forces in south Lebanon, using bombs which explode in the air in order to increase casualties among the ranks of civilians who might try to seek refuge in shelters.

The operation led to the deaths of 160 civilians, most of them women, children and the elderly who were unable to flee towards Beirut and were thus obliged to seek refuge in the shelter at the Fijian Battalion headquarters in the Lebanese village of Qana.

Another Massacre at Qana (2006): During Israel's 'open war' against Lebanon using Hezbollah's kidnapping of 2 Israeli soldiers as a pretext, another massacre was committed by Israel in Qana. About 54 innocent Lebanese civilians, including about 37 children, were killed through an air raid.

The New Nation - Internet Edition

I guess we can now add another paragraph at the end of this article.

'I didn't see any of my girls, just a pile of bricks'

Israeli air strike kills five daughters from one family as Gaza death toll passes 300

The family house was small: three rooms, a tiny kitchen and bathroom, built of poor-quality concrete bricks with a corrugated asbestos roof, in block four of Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza. There are hundreds of similar homes crammed into the overcrowded streets, filled with some of the poorest and most vulnerable families in the Gaza Strip.

But it was this house, where Anwar and Samira Balousha lived with their nine children, that had the misfortune to be built next to what became late on Sunday night another target in Israel's devastating bombing campaign of Gaza.

An Israeli bomb struck the refugee camp's Imad Aqil mosque around midnight, destroying the building and collapsing several shops and a pharmacy nearby. The force of the blast was so massive it also brought down the Balousha family's house, which yesterday lay in ruins. The seven eldest girls were asleep together on mattresses in one bedroom and they bore the brunt of the explosion. Five were killed where they lay: Tahrir, 17, Ikram 15, Samer, 13, Dina, eight and Jawahar, four.

They were the latest in a growing number of civilian casualties in Israel's bombing campaign. At least 335 Palestinians have been killed and as many as 1,400 injured....

Gaza death toll passes 300 | World news | The Guardian
 
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Zzarchov

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Israel does not face a mortal threat. Individual Israelis were terrorized in the last six months, a few were wounded even, but none were killed until after Israel killed more than 200 Gazans.

I agree that Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks even if they don't kill anyone. A good start would be stop provoking the militants and stick to your agreements. When Israel assassinates people, or starves millions of people, they must expect a response, truce or no truce.

Palestinians have the same right to defend themselves as Israelis. But I've never heard you or any Israeli apologists recognize this. They focus on Israel's rights and ignore the rights of Palestinians.

I stated that rocket attacks are war crimes and starving 1.5 million people is a crime against humanity. You seem only able to see the rocket attacks. Do Palestinians have a right to food, medicine and security? If these things are denied, do they have a right to fight for them?

IMO, proportionality is an important part of whether an action is justified or a war crime. So how many people can Israel kill in response to rocket attacks which never killed anyone...? Would killing 1.5 million Gazans with nuclear weapons be justified or a war crime?

Palestinians have a right to food,shelter and security should they wish it. Electing Hamas was not a good first step.

Not killing anyone deals more with Israels medical expertise and preparadeness (including having a shelter in all or most homes).

You keep relying on "didn't kill anyone".

Attempted Murder carries the same penalty as Murder in all (or almost all) nations in the world.

Are Palestinians better than everyone else?

Blockades still allowed in food, Palestinians are not entitled to prosperity regardless of illegal actions they engage in.

Or do you again think that Palestinians are better than the starving masses in Africa, India and Central Asia?

People who support an aggressive war can expect a resposne, isn't that your words?

Gaza is suffering compared to a first world nation, compared to the average world citizen they are still far above the norm in terms of standard of living.

Its insulting to those in the world who are suffering.

Give me a call when Israel roams around lopping off hands and lips with machettes like is going in the DR Congo.
 

Zzarchov

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When did that happen? The Jewish Holocaust happened in Europe. European and Christians have a history of killing Jews enmasse, not Arabs or Muslims.

You should judge Palestinians by their actions, not the actions of others. Until Zionism, Arabs in Palestine were a model of peaceful co-existance and religious tolerance for their time.

That is flagrant bollshoi which is contradicted by about a thousand years of records from the Crusaders, the Ottomans, the British, the Israelis and the Palestinians themselves.

There is a reason so many arab forces fought for Hitler, including the Iraqi insurgency (backed by the Nazi Luftwaffe)

This idea that anti-semitism suddenly sprouted into being in the holy land is revisionist bullship.
 

earth_as_one

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Still have a closed mind Z?

Many sources I reference are Jewish and/or Israeli. I often find them to be less subjective than Western sources. B'Tselem is among the best sources of information regarding this conflict.
B'Tselem - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

Most of the people fighting with the Nazis were Germans, not Arabs. Most of the people rounding up and gassing Jews were Europeans, not Arabs. Arabs fought on both sides in WW II. Most Palestinian Arabs stayed out of WW II refusing to support either side.

Starvation as a result of crop failure or natural catastrophe is one thing. Using food and medicine (or the lack of it) as a weapon is a crime against humanity... even when Israel does it.

Fundamental human rights are fundamental human rights. These rights are not dependant on who you democratically elect.

The link I provided regarding a peaceful tolerant Ottoman empire which welcomed and accepted Jews came from an Israeli Education website: Israel Science and Technology Homepage
Turkey was a safe destination for Jews during WW II. Follow this link and keep an open mind: Brief History of Turkish Jews

Today, Turkey is a popular Jewish tourist destination.
 
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