Israel pounds Gaza, death toll well over 100 and climbing

[earth_as_one]

Essentially the Zionists and Hamas have the same agenda. Both are religiously motivated to remove the other from Palestine. Hamas is more honest about it. The Zionists are more PR savy.

The Zionists are better funded, trained and armed and for the last 60 years have had the upperhand. But in the beginning when the zionists weren't well funded and small in number, they were committing terrorist acts, just like the people who resist the Zionists do now. If Hamas got the level of support as the Zionists and the Zionists got the same level of support as Hamas, their roles would also be reversed. Jewish refugees would be living as nationless refugees and being squeezed into ever small concentration camps. I would be arguing for their freedom and oppression. You and I might even be debating the same side against the brainwashed people overwhelmed by pro-Hamas propaganda who have no clue about the Jewish side...

I will always take the side of the oppressed against the oppressor. Your motivation seems to be based on the same hatred that fuels Zionism. In that respect you aren't that different from the people who support Hamas out of hatred.

I do not support violent resistance. I think its pointless. I do not support Hamas or the Zionists or any other groups which uses violence to achieve their goals.

An eye for eye makes the whole world blind.

I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary, the evil it does is permanent.

An error (lie) does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error (a lie) because nobody sees it.

MK Ghandi

I listen to all sides in this conflict and draw my conclusions on the facts as I know them. The conclusion I come to is that both Hamas and Israel wanted this current conflict. Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza, where they hope to defeat them or at least fight to a stalement. Israel has given up on using Fatah as a proxy to remove Hamas, they realize they can't starve Gazans into submission and now they have to get their hands dirty and do it with boots on the ground.

The outcome of this invasion will determine the results of Israel's coming general election. Livni has a lot riding on this missions success. So far its been a limited success from Israel's part. But the ground invasion is the part that carries the most risk.

 

[Just the Facts]

Arafat isn't my "hero".

Duly noted.

Regarding the "Hamas coup" story, some things don't add up.

The U.S. supports Fatah over Hamas. That's not earth shattering news.

Sure smells like US sponsored coup to me.

1. Trying to argue that Hamas did not take power by force because Fatah wanted to take power by force makes no sense. Even if the U.S. sent the entire 1st Army with 3 aircraft carriers and supplied Fatah with tactical nukes, it doesn't change the simple fact that Hamas took control of Gaza by force.

2. Vanity Fairs documents are apperently still top secret. This is the best they got?:
http://www.vanityfair.com/images/politics/2008/04/poar04a_gaza0804.jpg

I hope the CIA gets some new typewriters soon.

3. Follow your own advice and check alternate sources:

A statement from the office of Mohammad Dahlan, the former head of the Palestinian national security council, called the Vantiy Fair article "highly inaccurate and misleading".

"Accordingly there was (and remains) no secret plan to carry out a coup against Hamas," said the statement.

Contrast that to your source that claims Dahlan admitted everything.

"Although the US offered its financial support for the plan to reform the PA's [Palestinian Authority's] security forces (by offering assistance for non-lethal equipment as requested by the PA), financial support was never received."

No official US stamps or seals appear on the document.

Al Jazeera English - Middle East - 'US plot against Hamas' revealed


Well, I'm convinced.

 

[Trex]

Model rocketry:
A fun and informative hobby for young people.
Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

 

[Just the Facts]

Essentially the Zionists and Hamas have the same agenda. Both are religiously motivated to remove the other from Palestine. Hamas is more honest about it. The Zionists are more PR savy.

Also, apparently the Zionists totally suck at it. Hamas is really effective at it.

I listen to all sides in this conflict and draw my conclusions on the facts as I know them. The conclusion I come to is that both Hamas and Israel wanted this current conflict.

I'm curious how you come to that conclusion. Israel has been taking near daily rocket fire for three years now. THREE YEARS!! Where were all the protests? Where was all the outrage? Israel strikes back, after THREE YEARS, and you're telling me they want this conflict as much as Hamas does? Puh-lease.

If you've been watching the news, you may have seen this....a live example of how people allow themselves to have wool pulled over their eyes. There was an interview with a protestor in Toronto yesterday. His comment was that he's outraged because, something to the effect of, "Palestinians fire a few rockets, but Israel hit us with all they got".

That's the kind of double standard propagandic BS that makes it so difficult for me to be sympathetic to the Palestinians. Three years of near daily rocket attacks, no big deal. A couple of IAF sorties, and it's being hit with all they got. Right.

 

[Just the Facts]

Model rocketry:
A fun and informative hobby for young people.
Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

There it is again, that propagandic double standard. FIVE THOUSAND rockets fired, but...."we have been under siege for two years."

Well, duh! :lol:

 

[Just the Facts]

Thanks, Gopher... that letter by Einstein is a great document!!! Fits to a T!

Seems Einstein forgot to mention the part about the Jews warning the villagers to leave because an attack was imminant. What a brutal heartless military tactic, eh, letting the enemy know your intentions in order to spare the lives of innocents. So much more effective than, O, I don't know, the element of surprise?

 

[missile]

death to hamas.

couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[darkbeaver]

Operation "Cast Lead": Israeli Air Force strike followed months of planning

By Barak Ravid

Global Research, December 28, 2008
Haaretz

Global Research Editor's Note

While the Western media remains silent and complicit, the Israeli Press (Haaretz) reveals the unspoken truth: the careful planning of a military operation entitled "Cast Lead" coupled with a media disinformation and diplomatic campaign. What we are witnessing is genocide. Let us be under no illusiions, this operation was implemented with the knowledge and approval of Israeli's allies.


Long-term planning, meticulous intelligence-gathering, secret discussions, visual deception tactics and

 

[L Gilbert]

When people perpetuate the circle of violence, the situation won't be solved. One attacks the other and the other has to retaliate and around and around they go. It is stupid and wasteful.

 

[Just the Facts]

Let us be under no illusiions, this operation was implemented with the knowledge and approval of Israeli's allies.

Ya think?

 

[Just the Facts]

This intelligence-gathering effort brought back information about permanent bases, weapon silos, training camps, the homes of senior officials and coordinates for other facilities.

Wow. You'd think it would be schools, hospitals, retirement homes, playgrounds. No wonder so few civilians are being targeted.

 

[darkbeaver]

Ya think?

Couple of times a day, why?

 

[L Gilbert]

heheheh

 

[Risus]

When people perpetuate the circle of violence, the situation won't be solved. One attacks the other and the other has to retaliate and around and around they go. It is stupid and wasteful.

That is the problem, especially considering the mind set of those living in that part of the world. The situation will never be resolved.

 

[darkbeaver]

That is the problem, especially considering the mind set of those living in that part of the world. The situation will never be resolved.

There you go Risus prooving your nothing but a bigot and a rascist exactly the dirt you fling at others to mask your own foul proclivities, and in your haste to heap **** on others you never stopped to consider that your heroic Israelis live in that part of the world. Yours is the mindset that neads resolution.

 

[Zzarchov]

There you go Risus prooving your nothing but a bigot and a rascist exactly the dirt you fling at others to mask your own foul proclivities, and in your haste to heap **** on others you never stopped to consider that your heroic Israelis live in that part of the world. Yours is the mindset that neads resolution.

Or he did and is making a statement of the absurdity of claiming rights based on things your parents did that you did not.

 

[Just the Facts]

Couple of times a day, why?

Good question. :lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

Good question. :lol:

Following a life of moderation as respects thought I fear I cannot enlighten you further.:lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

Or he did and is making a statement of the absurdity of claiming rights based on things your parents did that you did not.

You only got to do what you did not because they did. We all carry our ancestors debts.

 

[gopher]

Hamas denies that it launched rockets into Israel:

Hamas Official Blames Rockets On Collaborators : NPR


And it should be remembered that this is occupied land - occupied by Israelis. If the USA invaded Canada, killed your neighbors and family, and continually claimed to be the vicitms, you would likely retaliate. Luckily, Palestinians have shown great restraint even though this is not being reported by the right wing media.