Shoe thrown at Bush (great legacy)

[gopher]

''The irony is that this person who threw shoes at Bush in protest over the Iraq War would have been tortured and then executed if he had thrown shoes at Saddam''


Saddam had majority support so that few people would have marched in sympathy to his cause if he had done so.

 

[Just the Facts]

Yeah Saddam got 100% of the votes in the election. Very popular leader.

 

[JBeee]

Well, apparently the guy is a Shia, so if you REALLY wanted to punish him, why not force him to live in Saddam's Iraq - O wait......

Yes....thanks to this 8 year long terrorist attack on Iraq by the US, it`s forgotten all about thier in-fighting over thousand year old rifts.:roll:

 

[Just the Facts]

The U.S. attack lasted a couple of months. The following 8 years you speak of is the exact in-fighting that apparently only you have forgotten.

Edit: Oh yeah, you and Al Zeidi

 

[JBeee]

The U.S. attack lasted a couple of months. The following 8 years you speak of is the exact in-fighting that apparently only you have forgotten.

Edit: Oh yeah, you and Al Zeidi

Are you suggesting the last 7 yrs and 10 months of this occupation was/is to keep these two acient fighting partys apart and at bay?

 

[Just the Facts]

Nope.

 

[gopher]

Yeah Saddam got 100% of the votes in the election. Very popular leader.

Iraqis say they were better off under Saddam:


» ‘I hate to say it, but we were better off under Saddam’

Iraqis say they were better off under rule of Saddam Hussein




I don't know for certain whether 100 % of the people would agree. But it is certain that the majority would say so.

 

[Praxius]

Yes....thanks to this 8 year long terrorist attack on Iraq by the US, it`s forgotten all about thier in-fighting over thousand year old rifts.:roll:

There are thousand year old rifts in just about every country/union. Ireland, the US, Canada, the UK, Iraq, all the former Soviet States, China, Taiwan, North/South Korea..... etc. etc....

What's the difference and who has the right to step in and decide how things go?

Maybe that's what you were leaning at, but wasn't very clear.

 

[Praxius]

Iraqis say they were better off under Saddam:

» ‘I hate to say it, but we were better off under Saddam’

Iraqis say they were better off under rule of Saddam Hussein

I don't know for certain whether 100 % of the people would agree. But it is certain that the majority would say so.

The majority do, despite what Bush wants everyone to believe.

Why?

Well for one thing, put yourself in their shoes for a bit and consider it. You had a dictator leading your country who at times was brutal, but order was maintained and you could still walk your streets day and night without worrying about some random attack. Now you have a forign force come and "Liberate" you without even asking you, they take out that leader, put in a whole new system of government that 98% of the population probably never experienced before and then they stick around for years on end.

You then have people who are quite religious and have a lot of historical faith in the land you call home, which many there and around the middle east consider as "The Holy Land" which forign non-believers were not supposed to step foot in because it would be disrespectful.

They not only stepped foot, they took over and stayed.

So then a very noticable division is created from an old division that was under control for the most part. You have one side who want to help the US and make things look stable and that they can do all of this on their own, so that the US would leave sooner........ and the other side who believes those helping the US are only making them stay even longer, and therefore traitors to their nation, faith and countrymen...... so then they start blowing them up as well.

And amongst all of this stink, the US spins it as the old conflicts that always were there, or they're simply other forign occupiers coming from other countries like Iran or Syria trying to ruin everything..... and that the majority of the Iraqis really want them there.

Honestly, if they ever did any of their damn homework in the first place, they'd know this was an outright lie that holds no substance, esspecially when you look at the history of their people and lands.

The difference between Saddam and Bush's objectives, is that most of everybody who lives in Iraq have now lost friends and family and not one single person is untouched by the last 8 years or so..... even Saddam woudn't have cause so much death and suffering..... they for the most part felt safe where they lived, they had a functioning nation and people could walk to work and see their family without worrying about when the next car bomb hits, or when the next convoy of forigners comes rounding the corner and shooting at you because you look like a terrorist.

All in all, no matter what side of the argument you are on, no matter if you're from the middle east or asia, or europe, or the Americas..... everybody should have enough common sense to see that things are a hell of a lot worse today then it ever was under Saddam's rule.

And if Saddam can be tried for the crimes he commited in his own nation and it's people, then start tallying up the amount of dead and suffering at Bush's hands and do the same thing, because when you compare the two, Saddam's amount of suffering and killing pales in comparison to what Bush has done.

Oh but Bush never actually killed anybody over there?

Well I imagine Saddam never directly killed anybody he was found guilty of killing..... he, just like Bush, probably sent in troops to do his dirty work...... so I see no difference.

Which is why I feel the guy with the shoes was justified in his anger..... Bush took out Saddam for being evil, only to be replaced by an even worse evil that has no understanding of the people he's oppressing.

If Bush can get away with pulling this kind of stunt for so long, then I don't see why Russia shouldn't be allowed to roll over Georgia and take them back over..... afterall that's all this is really..... Bush wants a Satellite State in the Middle East which has a bunch of oil and masking his intentions with "Democracy and Freedom."

I've seen very little democracy, and even less freedom.

 

[Risus]

The majority do, despite what Bush wants everyone to believe.

Why?

Well for one thing, put yourself in their shoes for a bit and consider it. You had a dictator leading your country who at times was brutal, but order was maintained and you could still walk your streets day and night without worrying about some random attack. Now you have a forign force come and "Liberate" you without even asking you, they take out that leader, put in a whole new system of government that 98% of the population probably never experienced before and then they stick around for years on end.

You then have people who are quite religious and have a lot of historical faith in the land you call home, which many there and around the middle east consider as "The Holy Land" which forign non-believers were not supposed to step foot in because it would be disrespectful.

They not only stepped foot, they took over and stayed.

So then a very noticable division is created from an old division that was under control for the most part. You have one side who want to help the US and make things look stable and that they can do all of this on their own, so that the US would leave sooner........ and the other side who believes those helping the US are only making them stay even longer, and therefore traitors to their nation, faith and countrymen...... so then they start blowing them up as well.

And amongst all of this stink, the US spins it as the old conflicts that always were there, or they're simply other forign occupiers coming from other countries like Iran or Syria trying to ruin everything..... and that the majority of the Iraqis really want them there.

Honestly, if they ever did any of their damn homework in the first place, they'd know this was an outright lie that holds no substance, esspecially when you look at the history of their people and lands.

The difference between Saddam and Bush's objectives, is that most of everybody who lives in Iraq have now lost friends and family and not one single person is untouched by the last 8 years or so..... even Saddam woudn't have cause so much death and suffering..... they for the most part felt safe where they lived, they had a functioning nation and people could walk to work and see their family without worrying about when the next car bomb hits, or when the next convoy of forigners comes rounding the corner and shooting at you because you look like a terrorist.

All in all, no matter what side of the argument you are on, no matter if you're from the middle east or asia, or europe, or the Americas..... everybody should have enough common sense to see that things are a hell of a lot worse today then it ever was under Saddam's rule.

And if Saddam can be tried for the crimes he commited in his own nation and it's people, then start tallying up the amount of dead and suffering at Bush's hands and do the same thing, because when you compare the two, Saddam's amount of suffering and killing pales in comparison to what Bush has done.

Oh but Bush never actually killed anybody over there?

Well I imagine Saddam never directly killed anybody he was found guilty of killing..... he, just like Bush, probably sent in troops to do his dirty work...... so I see no difference.

Which is why I feel the guy with the shoes was justified in his anger..... Bush took out Saddam for being evil, only to be replaced by an even worse evil that has no understanding of the people he's oppressing.

If Bush can get away with pulling this kind of stunt for so long, then I don't see why Russia shouldn't be allowed to roll over Georgia and take them back over..... afterall that's all this is really..... Bush wants a Satellite State in the Middle East which has a bunch of oil and masking his intentions with "Democracy and Freedom."

I've seen very little democracy, and even less freedom.

Praxius, I agree 100%.

 

[Praxius]

Related Update:

Iraqi shoe-thrower 'apologises'
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraqi shoe-thrower 'apologises'

The Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at US President George W Bush has apologised to Iraqi PM Nouri Maliki, the prime minister's office says.


Local TV reporter Muntader al-Zaidi wrote a letter to Mr Maliki asking for forgiveness over his "ugly act", prime minister's spokesman Yasin Majeed said.

Mr Zaidi has been in custody since he threw shoes and shouted insults at Mr Bush during Sunday's news conference.

His actions have made him a hero in some quarters of the Arab world.

Iraqi officials have described the incident as shameful.

Mr Zaidi has been charged with "aggression against a president", which carries a prison sentence of up to 15 years.

'A lie'

Yasin Majeed said Mr Maliki had received a contrite letter from the journalist.
"Zaidi said in his letter that his big ugly act cannot be excused," Mr Majeed said.


He said Mr Zaidi added: "But I remember in the summer of 2005, I interviewed your excellency and you told me, 'Come in, this is your house'. And so I appeal to your fatherly feelings to forgive me."

However, according to Reuters news agency, one of Mr Zaidi's brothers expressed scepticism over the merits of the letter.

"This information is absolutely not true. This is a lie. Muntader is my brother and I know him very well. He does not apologise," Udai al-Zaidi said.

He added: "But if it happened, I tell you it happened under pressure."

'Signs of blows'

Judge Dhiya al-Kenani said the shoes at the centre of the incident had been destroyed by US and Iraqi security agents when they were checked for explosives.

:roll: Jeezzzus..... what a joke.

"I would have preferred to have had the shoes as evidence for the case but since Muntader al-Zaidi has confessed to his action and that the television pictures confirm it, the investigation can continue," he told the AFP news agency.


Judge Dhiya al-Kenani said the court had refused the journalist's request for bail "for the sake of the investigation and for his own security".

He also told the AFP that the journalist had "signs of blows to the face" from when he was arrested, but rejected claims by another of Mr Zaidi's brothers claim that he suffered a broken arm.

Mr Zaidi leapt from his chair at the news conference in Baghdad and hurled first one shoe and then the other at Mr Bush, who was at the podium with Mr Maliki.

The shoes missed as Mr Bush ducked, and Mr Zaidi was wrestled to the ground by security guards and frogmarched from the room.

"This is a farewell kiss, you dog," he yelled in Arabic as he threw his shoes. "This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq."

Thousands have been protesting in support of his actions.
His employers, the Cairo-based al-Baghdadiya TV channel, called for their journalist to be freed, saying he had simply been exercising his freedom of expression - something the Americans promised Iraqis when they ousted former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

So he got a bit beaten up and then apologizes..... go figure.... typical if you ask me.

 

[Scott Free]

 

[Praxius]

Meh, that's ok, you can still ball up your socks and chuck em..... or maybe rip off your underwear and sling them at him.... just make sure you leave either on for about a week before the speech so you have a bit of a chemical warfare spin on things. :twisted:

Added:

Oh and if you want to go a step further, make sure you leave plenty of cheesy-smelling long haired pubes in the underwear, or for your socks, just store up a bunch of toenail clippings and scraped off dead skin from a peticure to place in the balled up socks.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

What a legacy!

 

[Socrates the Greek]

New security podium for Bush and the likes of him

 

[Socrates the Greek]

this has long legs

 

[Ron in Regina]

Shoe thrown at Bush (great legacy)

If throwing shoes in that chunk of the world is that Taboo and has attached to it such a
negative statement that there's actually a law against it, what would the penalty be if
this Reporter threw his shoes at just the Butcher or Baker or Candle Stick Maker...and
not a Head of State???

 

[mabudon]

I just want to point out that I still laugh seeing the thread title "Shoe thrown at bush"

Years ago (I'm thinkin it HAD to be in the 80's, I was young) I remember seeing a huge headline "ANGRY SOVIETS HURL ROCKS AT BUSH" in this doomsday sized font and laughing my arse off- so it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end eh??

 

[Praxius]

Well it's official now.... he was beaten:

Iraqi judge: Shoe-tossing reporter was beaten
CTV.ca | Iraqi judge: Shoe-tossing reporter was beaten

BAGHDAD -- The Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at President George W. Bush was beaten after the incident and had bruises on his face and around his eyes, a judge said Friday.

Judge Dhia al-Kinani, the magistrate investigating the incident, said the court has filed a complaint on behalf of journalist Muntadhar al-Zeidi, and added that court officials "will watch the footage to identify those who have beaten him."

Al-Zeidi was wrestled to the ground after throwing his shoes during a Sunday news conference by Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and there had been conflicting claims on his condition since then. One of his brothers claimed he was harshly beaten, but another said he seemed to be in good condition.

Al-Zeidi remained in custody and was expected to eventually face charges of insulting a foreign leader.

"He was beaten and we filed a case for that," Judge Dhia al-Kinani told The Associated Press. "Al-Zeidi did not raise a complaint and he can drop this case if he wants to."

Al-Kinani also confirmed that the journalist had written a letter of apology to al-Maliki. Under the Iraqi constitution, the president can grant pardons that are requested by the prime minister.

A spokesman for al-Maliki said Thursday that the letter contained a specific pardon request. But al-Zeidi's brother Dhargham told The AP that he suspected the letter was a forgery.

The incident, a vivid demonstration of Iraqis' dismay over the U.S.-led invasion and occupation of the country for more than five years, turned al-Zeidi into an instant folk hero. Thousands of Iraqis have demonstrated for his release.

The judge said the investigation would be completed and sent to the criminal court on Sunday, after which a court date would be set within seven to 10 days.

Al-Zeidi's action was broadcast repeatedly on television stations around the world. U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack suggested that worldwide attention to the shoe-tossing was overblown.

"We would hope that the fact of a U.S. president standing next to a freely elected prime minister of Iraq who just happens to be Shia, who is governing in a multi-confessional, multiethnic democracy in the heart of the Middle East, is not overshadowed by one incident like this," McCormack told reporters in Washington.

But it has been, so get over it.

McCormack said he believed that in the coming years "the fact of the president making that visit under those circumstances will probably overshadow any memory of this particular gentleman and what he did."

We call that Wishful Thinking where I come from.

In the Iranian capital Tehran, hard-line Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati praised the act at Friday prayers, calling it the "Shoe Intifada."

Jannati proposed people in Iraq and Iran should carry shoes in further anti-American demonstrations. "This should be a role model," said Jannati.

Also Friday, the head of a large West Bank family said it is willing to offer one of its eligible females as a bride for al-Zeidi. The leader, 75-year-old Ahmad Salim Judeh, said that the 500-member clan had raised $30,000 for al-Zeidi's legal defense.

Well I guess we can expect an outrage over him being beaten now.

 

[einmensch]

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