Then the baby has no mother in during those formative times, leading also to long term health issues from not breastfeeding.
Why should I care about the US laws or institutions?
U.S. war deserter, mother of 3 must leave Canada
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
Then the baby has no mother in during those formative times, leading also to long term health issues from not breastfeeding.
Why should I care about the US laws or institutions?
Absolutely no reason she can't take the child with her.........
And we have an extradition treaty with the USA.......
You mean the one thats been answered? The point of our laws is to benefit our citizens over the citizens of other countries and the demands of those foreign governments.
And when those foriegn governments aren't in a habit of honouring their treaty obligations so they can benefit their own citizenry (see softwood lumber)
Why the hell should we honour our agreements at the expense of our citizens?
So now you answer my question:
Why are the laws of America more important then the best interests of a Canadian Citizen while on Canadian Soil?
We had a softwood lumber treaty too, the US ignored that to benefit their citizens. I see no reason to hold this treaty up at the expense of one of ours.
There is no reason a Canadian citizen should be deported from Canada to suit US demands. But that's just me, Im a Canadian Patriot, not an American Patriot. I can fully understand why the USA wants her back, just not why we should give a crap.
Ok. First off... I agree with A LOT of what you say here on CANCON and I know this is an issue that we disagree on but it is not a flagrant breach of contract according to the law and the contract. Each enlistee signs an 8 year obligation. After the discharge from Active Service an enlisted person can be called back OR his tour (not neccessarily overseas tour) extended. That is in the contract.
Now you may not like it and think it is unfair but it is in the contract that he signs.
Being a member of the military it is essential to obey the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). All nations military members have the same set up. I am sure Canadian soldiers also answer to their form of military justice as well.
Not so. The only people who despise the military are liberals. See Code Pink and other groups who have a complete disdain for ALL military members.
The Draft has always been a scare tactic by anti-military in recent events. The anti-war movement has pretty much sputtered out and to get the youth scared they say there is going to be a draft. College campuses are pretty much quiet about the war. Some Democrat politicians tried to reinstate the draft in Congress ONLY to fire up the anti-war movement. It has failed each time.
We do not hate our military. That statement is so very off. Our military is made of us. It is made of that city kid, the farmers kid, etc.
This is where is SORT of agree. Her child IS Canadian. I think she should come back or be sent back to the US to face trial because she deserted. I also believe she should be allowed to return after she does her time (and she will) as her child is Canadian.
She will do less than a year. Yes it will suck bad for her and it will be awful but it is no different than any mother or father doing jail time for a crime. The child cannot be used as an excuse to avoid jail time. She KNEW the risks of deserting the military.
I should clarify on stop loss. The 8 year portion I agree with, that is signed. Stop Loss allows indefinate (as I understand it) involuntary extension of a contract (you can do it for his whole life if it comes to it). And I agree with that, If red dawn is going down you don't want half the military going "well, my times up, later guys".
But thats for emergencies. And if its an emergency then "scared or not" the population needs to quit being so chickenship, stand up for their country and start the draft.
And if a bunch of baby college kids cry, who cares, its an emergency.
And if its not an emergency then you don't need unlimited involuntary extensions. If you are having problems recruiting, try offering to pay a soldier what you are willing to pay the mercanaries "security consultants"
I bet you'll see alot more repeat enlisters. And I don't doubt alot of the US of A loves their soldiers, but the fear of the draft should tell you alot more don't love them enough to help out. "--WE-- Need to go to war, I'll stay back and hold your coat" syndrome. To me thats disdainful, if its not important enough to get your own hands dirty, its not important enough to get someone else killed for.
I sure as hell wouldn't enjoy putting my life on hold if there was a draft, but I'd go back. And I'd do that long before I'd see our soldiers turned into virtual slaves.
And while I can agree she knew the risks of joining the US military, and she is a coward, Im really not too concerned with her. If it was just her she can go back and conciously object in the US and do what she thinks is right.
I care about a Canadian citizen. Once the baby is old enough to not need the mom, I say send her back. Until then, I don't rightly care about American laws on Canadian soil.
I also have nothing against military justice I should point out. I have a problem with the military deciding if someone is applicable to military law, instead civilian law deciding if someone is subject to military law in the first place or not.
But thats for emergencies. And if its an emergency then "scared or not" the population needs to quit being so chickenship, stand up for their country and start the draft.
And if a bunch of baby college kids cry, who cares, its an emergency.
And if its not an emergency then you don't need unlimited involuntary extensions. If you are having problems recruiting, try offering to pay a soldier what you are willing to pay the mercanaries "security consultants"
I bet you'll see alot more repeat enlisters. And I don't doubt alot of the US of A loves their soldiers, but the fear of the draft should tell you alot more don't love them enough to help out. "--WE-- Need to go to war, I'll stay back and hold your coat" syndrome. To me thats disdainful, if its not important enough to get your own hands dirty, its not important enough to get someone else killed for.
I sure as hell wouldn't enjoy putting my life on hold if there was a draft, but I'd go back. And I'd do that long before I'd see our soldiers turned into virtual slaves.
And while I can agree she knew the risks of joining the US military, and she is a coward, Im really not too concerned with her. If it was just her she can go back and conciously object in the US and do what she thinks is right.
I care about a Canadian citizen. Once the baby is old enough to not need the mom, I say send her back. Until then, I don't rightly care about American laws on Canadian soil.
I also have nothing against military justice I should point out. I have a problem with the military deciding if someone is applicable to military law, instead civilian law deciding if someone is subject to military law in the first place or not.
I don't see why the baby being born in Canada makes any difference about the mother's status. She's not Canadian. If she wants to leave the baby in Canada, she can, but she has no right to stay in the country. It's actually the same in the US despite the popular misconception. Having a baby here means the baby is a citizen, but they can still deport the parents. They have the right to take the baby with them or leave it here.
As I read it stop-loss is just continuing the active service. Each soldier (etc.) that has experienced stop-loss is a member whose 4 years are up and they are extended his active duty via his contract. We sign for 8 years and the military has the right to hold us to those 8 years.
The draft is nothing more than a political tool and everyone who has brought it up has been anti-war because they can't accomplish their goals to stop the war.
They will do more than cry.
Well it is not as simple as that. We do not need a draft as they have enough that have signed up. The military is excersizing its use of the the contract.
The bonuses that soldiers are getting are very big.
They are not having problems recruiting. The anti-war movement says they are but the reality is that they are reaching their goals. You do not hear to much about the military missing their goals these days and have not for a long time. The last time the army fell short was (I believe) in 2005 and it was only by a few hundred nation wide.
They just don't want to join. Not everyone is cut out for military service. Heck some of the guys/gals that sign up are not cut out for it and are washed out in basic training.
They aren't slaves...they're soldiers and they are required to do more and obey orders. It is just a different life.
Hmmm... I won't even go so far as to call her or any of them cowards. They may be but a few of them had already served over there. They just didn't want to go back for whatever reason. Maybe they thought their number was up, or was just tired of it. Whatever the reason they chose Canada. As we are finding out going to Canada was not a good choice for any of them. They are getting punished severly for that.
To a point I agree. I think as a Canadian you would want the child cared for in Canada. The mom should have never left the US. I think she should be allowed back after she does her time. The longer she stays away the longer the punishment will be.
Well if you are in the military you are under the UCMJ...military law. If you are civillian you are not. She or anyone cannot discharge themselves.
Do you really think she is not still under military law?
You are right Tracy...it does make it easier to stay if you do have a child born in the US though. But again...you're right...it is no gaurentee...but the odds do get better
I don't know how much better they can get. Illegal immigrants can serve time in jail here and not get deported. It seems like it's the people who try to come legally that get kicked out since the authorities actually know about them. There was actually a special on some news program here a couple of weeks ago about widows of American citizens who were being deported because they hadn't finished the immigration process when their spouse died. One was pregnant at the time and has now been told she's being deported and she can take her son with her or leave him in the US with her in-laws.
I know the case you were talking about on the last part and she was allowed to stay. I think that was here in Massachusetts.
...and that includes the extradition treaties that we have signed. If you are in favor of dissolving treaties we've signed with the US just say so. While people are entitled to there opinions (however pedantic they may be) I think the majority of Canadians favor a continuation of the status quo. Most would feel that abolishing an agreement simply because of one instance (especially when the subject knowingly and willingly broke the law) would be foolish.
If the US doesn't wish to honor their treaties with Canada then Canada should, if it suits our purpose, cancel the treaty. The question is whether having an extradition treaty with the US benefits us and our citizens. It does.
Does it benefit every single citizen in every single case. No. No law or treaty does that. I guess I'm just looking at the big picture while you have tunnel vision.
The laws of the US are not at issue. At issue is the treaty that Canada signed. Are you suggesting that Canada act like the Americans and not honor our treaties so we can benefit our own citizens (see softwood lumber)?
Stop-Loss
In this case the woman is not even in this category. She was on leave in Texas and decided she did not want to go back. She was in Iraq for 3 months and went on leave. Instead of going back she went to Canada. She was still under her active duty portion of her contract and deserted while her unit was still in Iraq.
Reading more on her I feel she is using her children as shields and hiding behind Canadians to escape justice. She knew what she was doing when she went to Canada and should be ashamed of bringing her kids into the picture to avoid facing the consequences of her own actions.
In this case the woman is not even in this category. She was on leave in Texas and decided she did not want to go back. She was in Iraq for 3 months and went on leave. Instead of going back she went to Canada. She was still under her active duty portion of her contract and deserted while her unit was still in Iraq.
Reading more on her I feel she is using her children as shields and hiding behind Canadians to escape justice. She knew what she was doing when she went to Canada and should be ashamed of bringing her kids into the picture to avoid facing the consequences of her own actions.
Oh, I have no doubt about that and her conduct is not one I would want in Canada. Not only that, lets face it, she's a woman and I hate to point this out..but America is a damned sexist nation and don't trust women to fight in frontline combat.
She doesn't have anything to damn well be an objector about since she'd be being molly coddled as a second rate citizen by the army anyways.
Her conduct is disgusting, I don't think she deserves any sympathy or justification. But she isn't the issue, rightly or wrongly (and yes, you are right, it was wrongly) she did bring her children into this.
Now its the children that matter.
Im not saying she shouldn't face justice, I just don't think America nor its justice system is going anywhere soon. Wait 5 or 6 years. Then we deport her.
Why the arbitrary 5 year wait? If it's for the baby, you must realize she'll just keep popping kids out so we'll have to wait until the youngest turns 5...
C'mon... we are no more a sexist nation that Canada and plenty of women have got killed over there.
Not really... those days left with Tailhook. They may not hold an infantry billett but the women themselves make sure THOSE type don't make the ones that want to do their jobs don't slack.
Well respect the extradition agreements or not. These folks aren't draft dodgers they are deserters.
Then she can keep doing that. Sooner or later she'll hit menopause though. Its not like the USA needs her back now for any reason.