U.S. war deserter, mother of 3 must leave Canada

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Health Care! Please be serious. Education...well as long as she stays out of the public/urban schools they will be fine.

Sense of pride...well we have a sense of pride for our country...that is one of the reasons people like you hate the United States. You say we are TOO proud.

As far as the girl going to prison with her mom...please...stop embarrassing yourself. She is married... Dad will keep the kids while mom does her time. When she gets out she can try to immigrate to Canada again.

Sense of pride...well we have a sense of pride for our country...that is one of the reasons people like you hate the United States. You say we are TOO proud.

Don't mistake irrational arrogance for pride. Don't mistake "hate" for dislike and don't single out Canada. Dislike for the USA is a world wide phenomenon
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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You also assume that most Americans lack the above, which is pretty ignorant on your part.

Have you never before read any of JBee's posts?????8O8O8O8O8O

I think the woman should be thrown out.......if hubby wants to stay in Canada with the kids, Okay, and I'd probably let her back in after she serves her time.....less than 18 months for sure, perhaps no time at all.

They are not shooting these folks at dawn, you know......and they volunteered!!!!!!
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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You are aware that US soldiers are being forced to stay far beyond their normal tour of duty because of a shortage of personnel, right?

WRONG! No soldier or Marine etc. is being asked to stay in the military beyond their enlistment. Common misperception. Enlisted contracts have an 8 year obligation. The typical enlistment is four years active and 4 years on the Inactive Ready Reserve. Some are being kept after their four years active duty are up and augmented. All of that is spelled out CLEARLY in the contract.

Have you been in any of the Middle East war zones? Have you been commanded to kill innocent women and children? I'm sorry that you cannot see how stupid war is.

Oh sure...the officers always say...

"I COMMAND YOU TO KILL THOSE WOMEN AND CHILDREN!"

And I'm sure you are aware of how military recruiters go into really poor neighbourhoods and lie and make unrealistic promises to get these people to join up thinking that they will get a better life, when all they are expected to do is die as cannon fodder so the rich can get richer at their expense.

WRONG. Recruiting stations are everywhere. Most of the people joining are middle class as it has always been. You are just passing out the kool-aid that the folks from Berkley California are serving you. I was not poor, most of the guys I served with were not from poor families. There were some poor kids but there were also some insanely rich kids as well. In fact when I graduated Parris Island one of my fellow recruits was going to stay at his summer home on Hilton Head SC after the ceremony. The town I live in is upper middle class and their are HUNDREDS of them serving and have served in the Middle East.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Don't mistake irrational arrogance for pride.

I am not mistaken... it's ALL PRIDE BABY!

Don't mistake "hate" for dislike and don't single out Canada. Dislike for the USA is a world wide phenomenon

I bet that comment stems from the insecure or jealous that is prevalent in some of you.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Question...

If her child is Canadian will she be able to?

But yes...she WILL be a felon for desertion. She is pretty much screwed here in the US once she is released from prison. The deserters that have held out this long are indeed getting punished severly.

That is probably a better reason to stay here in Canada. Forget what jbee said, having your mother labelled as a desserter is a far cry better than having a felon for a mother.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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That is probably a better reason to stay here in Canada. Forget what jbee said, having your mother labelled as a desserter is a far cry better than having a felon for a mother.

I do agree. Life in Canada would be better for them. As it stands her mother is not only labeled as a Deserter...she is one. As a hold out she has dug herself deeper. There is no question that the ones that have gone back on their own are getting a lighter sentence. The ones like Robin Long and the last guy that was sent back to the US in protest has received a Dishonorable Discharge. That carries such a huge penalty that goes long after their release from the Brig. She is almost non-employable. Not many employers would hire her. Honestly, she is in for a tough life here in the states.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Honestly, she is in for a tough life here in the states.

That's what the Canadian officials should have been considering. A Canadian citizen is leaving for a life with much more hardship now, but the mom still has to answer for what she did. :-(
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Yeah it is kind of touchy. It all depends on how secretive she can keep her past life. You are not physically branded but in any background check for any job Dishonorable Discharge is going to stick out. If she goes to live in her hometown everyone will know who she is and I am sure there are plenty of Vets. I personally have only met one man who had a Dishonorable Discharge...he was hanging drywall.

Do you think she could get back into Canada? I would doubt that she could as they are deporting her to begin with. She will be applying as a felon. I do not think that will get to far with your immigration.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Yeah it is kind of touchy. It all depends on how secretive she can keep her past life. You are not physically branded but in any background check for any job Dishonorable Discharge is going to stick out. If she goes to live in her hometown everyone will know who she is and I am sure there are plenty of Vets. I personally have only met one man who had a Dishonorable Discharge...he was hanging drywall.

Do you think she could get back into Canada? I would doubt that she could as they are deporting her to begin with. She will be applying as a felon. I do not think that will get to far with your immigration.

Naw, she's pretty much screwed now if she goes back to the US.... once you got a criminal record, it get's pretty difficult to get in.

Then again, after she serves her time, she could move to some third world country where her and her family face life threatening risks and then try again.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
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I am not mistaken... it's ALL PRIDE BABY!

I bet that comment stems from the insecure or jealous that is prevalent in some of you.

Its yankee arrogance, pure and simple. And, no, we are not jealous of it. The problem is you guys think you rule the world. Well a good percentage of the world thinks yanks are scum, so that should tell you something....
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Its yankee arrogance, pure and simple. And, no, we are not jealous of it. The problem is you guys think you rule the world. Well a good percentage of the world thinks yanks are scum, so that should tell you something....

NOOOOPE! PRIDE Risus... PRIDE. Too bad you don't have much.

We don't nor do we want to rule the world...you just think we do and say it that we do because it makes you feel better about yourself.

It tells me I don't give a <bleep> what those people think. We have a tough time trying to keep a good percentage out! That should tell YOU something.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Nakusp, BC
So if I may read between the lines, can I assume that you have no problem harboring suspected criminals as long as you believe they are justified in their criminal behavior?

I do not consider conscientious objectors or even deserters to be criminals. Canada has let thousands of Asian criminals to immigrate just because they could buy the citizenship, yet someone grabs a conscience and we label them a criminal. We are or have become lopsided in our thinking.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Irrelevant. Sometimes I have to work overtime because of a labor shortage.

I call bull****, you can always choose to just quit the job. You don't go to jail nor risk execution for telling the boss "Stuff it, I signed up for 40 hours a week not 60, I quit"


As for the OP:

Let her stay, she has a kid. While I don't like it, even EagleSmack can agree that the laws in the US aren't much different, criminals can avoid deportation if they are raising a citizen "anchor baby".

Thats why the illegally immigrating mothers get to stay, and why the baby is called "anchor baby". It aint a great situation, but just because something is a loophole doesn't mean it should be ignored.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
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Alberta
So if I may read between the lines, can I assume that you have no problem harboring suspected criminals as long as you believe they are justified in their criminal behavior?

I do not consider conscientious objectors or even deserters to be criminals.

But the law does. You haven't answered the question.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Alberta
I call bull****, you can always choose to just quit the job. You don't go to jail nor risk execution for telling the boss "Stuff it, I signed up for 40 hours a week not 60, I quit"

Well duh!! But I'm not operating in a war zone? Soldiers can choose to quit as well....once they have fulfilled their obligation.

I understand that some from a non-military background have a difficult time understanding that the military does not (nor should it) mirror regular civilian society. Your lack of understanding does not, however, change the reality. The woman signed up and agreed to do certain things. She also new that by not doing these things, she would commit a criminal act. She chose to break the law.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, my question still stands.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Well duh!! But I'm not operating in a war zone? Soldiers can choose to quit as well....once they have fulfilled their obligation.

I understand that some from a non-military background have a difficult time understanding that the military does not (nor should it) mirror regular civilian society. Your lack of understanding does not, however, change the reality. The woman signed up and agreed to do certain things. She also new that by not doing these things, she would commit a criminal act. She chose to break the law.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, my question still stands.

Actually, im ex-military, but thats a nice attempt to deflect attention away. Your example is flawed.

Not the least of which is stop-loss in the USA, which while a flagrant breach of the contract signed (involuntary extension can only occur for the basis of national security in a war. No war has actually been declared in Iraq.

The main problem being of course having the ones you are taking to task for violating the law also being the ones who rule on it.


Its just another sign of how badly American's despise their service personel, the war is important enough to national security to institute stop loss (a law designed for the country being over run) but not important enough for a draft?


American's have alot to be proud of, the way the population hates its service personel isn't one of them.


In the case of the War Deserter, I don't rightly give a fark what the US laws say, or the institution of American Society, or the status of one American Citizen over the status of One small baby Canadian Citizen who should have a mother.

This is no longer about some coward hiding in canuckistan, its about the rights of a baby.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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In the case of the War Deserter, I don't rightly give a fark what the US laws say, or the institution of American Society, or the status of one American Citizen over the status of One small baby Canadian Citizen who should have a mother.

This is no longer about some coward hiding in canuckistan, its about the rights of a baby.

So, let's throw her out, let her serve her time, then we will let her return.

Even better, go to her and make it clear that IF she surrenders to US authorities voluntarily, we will garauntee her re-entry into Canada when the case is resolved........force us to kick her out, and she will not be welcome back.

Simple

Everybody's happy.