U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
that is a tad casual when one is talking about destroying that many civilian lives.
Is the attitude the same when US civilians and troops are slaughtered??? Let's face it......that would only be fair.
If this is representative of a cultures or nations attitude towards slaughter in other lands ......little wonder that people (of the aggressor nation)have become jaded about LIFE and Murder , mass killings . Also little wonder the nation doing this has lost its ethical core and the worlds respect along with it.
sadly, this doesn't seem to bother the population of said nation.
Just another horrific tragedy of a warmongering attitude gone out of control as these might as well be assassinations......(something the US fully endorses now )
It does not get much sicker than that.
so the operative question is: IS there any hope for recovering a more humane attitude towards their fellow beings?? Or is it too late..??
Or is this just another shameful event that will be "justified" with specific terminology and rationalized away. Soon to be forgotten by the ones doing it , while leaving the victims and their families grieving and raging against the giant warmongering monolith that now knows no boundaries.??
Seems that the powers that send these young men and women into ELECTIVE wars of mass destruction might want to consider the impact that the ugliness of war has on these troops. War is insanity , always has been. Those that fight in the wars lose a lot of their own self and sanity as no human being (unless a hard core cold psychopath) is equipped to deal with those horrors. Troops from Viet Nam should have taught the powers a big lesson........but the powers that love war are learning challnged as well as greedy.
"Intentional Murders"
US Murders 16 Civilians in Afghanistan: Kabul Government
US Kills 16 Civilians in Afghanistan: Kabul Government
No matter how some will try to rationalize this new HORROR.......there is NO EXCUSE for it. NONE.
the actual murderers are partially to blame......but those that sent them there , and protracted the occupation for over a dang decade are even more responsible.
Bad enough that the Afghans struggled with their own murderers , and barbaric killings........the US did not have to export its gun and kill culture to them to add to an already volatile environment.
All the while US was exporting its "gun and kill culture" to chase out Russians from which direction did the breeze blow?
BTW.... This was ONE man ... NOT the whole USA.
BTW.... This was ONE man ... NOT the whole USA.
The troops are slated to be taken out at the end of the year, but IMO I should think the Government should push to get them out sooner than that. Election year be damned, the repercussions of this are going to last much longer if they don't get out ASAP.
This incident is hardly unique. I can reference hundreds of incidents where American soldiers have gunned down innocent civilians in recent years which are just as bad or worse than this incident. In nearly every case, the American soldiers responsible for killing innocent civilians avoid serious consequences, just like what happened in the Haditha massacre. This case would be exceptional if this American soldier is held accountable for his actions.
Meanwhile, another American mass murderer who started an unprovoked war which killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians not only walks around free, but gets paid appearance fees.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-so...ns-afghanistan/story?id=11732681#.T11jcfXwGWc
- Rolling Stone reveals how U.S. troops murdered Afghan civilians
- Soldiers cut off 15-year-old boy's finger and kept it as trophy
- Video captures U.S. troops cheering as airstrike kills two Afghan civilians
- New pictures show dead Afghan man's head on a stick
- Soldier stabbed the body of a dead Afghan civilian
- Military tried to pull pictures out of circulation to avoid another Abu Ghraib
- Army says photos are 'in striking contrast' to its standards and values
An investigation by Rolling Stone magazine details how senior officers failed to stop troops killing Afghans and keeping their body parts as trophies.
In one horrific episode, the magazine claims troops threw a grenade at an innocent Afghan boy before chopping off his finger and later using it as 'gambling chip' in a game of cards.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...heering-airstrike-blows-Afghan-civilians.html
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Well why aren't you over there being a hero instead of mixing specifics into one propagandic ball of hate here?
I read today that the place where this happened was a model city set up by Canadians where some people were so friendly with Canadian soldiers that they were invited in for tea. The model was so successful that it had spread to surrounding towns. Is my understanding correct in that Canadians withdrew and Americans took over this calm city ... and now 9 children are shot dead in the street for no reason? 16 people in total?
I do think that this is an unprovoked murderous act and that the families of the victims should have justice. That justice is not based on the laws of some other country, but based on the laws of that city. The murderer was not working as a soldier when he killed 16 people, he was off duty and supposedly drunk. It is unlikely that he was suffering some sort of delusion, as the army must have checks in place to ensure that deluded, drunk, off-duty soldiers are not running around shooting young girls.
Wasn't there was another case like this a couple of years ago? It was at a checkpoint and three US soldiers entered a nearby home, killed the entire family but raped all the females first, even the young girls. I think one took the fall and was tried/imprisoned in the US.
At some point, if the US is transitioning power back to Afghanistan and Iraq, the US should also relinquish control of their justice systems. This seems like the perfect case to try in Afghanistan ... just to demonstrate to everyone that autonomy is the ultimate objective.
I do think that this is an unprovoked murderous act and that the families of the victims should have justice. That justice is not based on the laws of some other country, but based on the laws of that city. The murderer was not working as a soldier when he killed 16 people, he was off duty and supposedly drunk. It is unlikely that he was suffering some sort of delusion, as the army must have checks in place to ensure that deluded, drunk, off-duty soldiers are not running around shooting young girls.
Wasn't there was another case like this a couple of years ago? It was at a checkpoint and three US soldiers entered a nearby home, killed the entire family but raped all the females first, even the young girls. I think one took the fall and was tried/imprisoned in the US.
At some point, if the US is transitioning power back to Afghanistan and Iraq, the US should also relinquish control of their justice systems. This seems like the perfect case to try in Afghanistan ... just to demonstrate to everyone that autonomy is the ultimate objective.
Leaving the base where possible Taliban could be scouting the area, risking court martial afterwards along with firing squad.
So certainly his act is cowardly in the second sense of the word, but not in the first.
It still does not make his act criminal, cruel, etc. Just not necessarily cowardly in the primary sense of the word.
Why should this soldier be treated differently than other American soldiers who have done the same or worse? Murderous rampages by American soldiers against civilians are not unusual and in most cases, the killer faces no serious consequences provided the victims are Iraqi or Afghan. The Haditha massacre is just one example of American soldiers gunning down unarmed and innocent women and children and then pissing on their corpses. In that case and most of the others where the facts show the attack against civilians was just another senseless murder of an Iraqi or Afghan civilian, most Americans have had no problems or conscience issues ignoring these heinous crimes or the victim's pleas for justice. If Americans truly believed in justice, then American mass murderers George Bush and Dick Cheney, would be held responsible for their roles in starting an unprovoked war which resulted in hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, rather than earning appearance fees to talk about their crimes.
Based on how Americans have reacted to these incidents in the past, its clear most Americans don't consider it a crime when their soldiers go on murderous rampages killing innocent civilians. This American soldier will probably face little to no consequences for his actions.
Based on how Americans have reacted to these incidents in the past, its clear most Americans don't consider it a crime when their soldiers go on murderous rampages killing innocent civilians. This American soldier will probably face little to no consequences for his actions.
Don't be an idiot. The guy is deservedly going away for life and you can bet on that.
That really sucks.
Incidents like these just go to show that we need to start winding down our military assignments.
Incidents like these just go to show that we need to start winding down our military assignments.
Turns out he is a husband and father too. Not only did he destroy an Afghan family, but his own too.
Many American soldiers and leaders deserved to go away for life, yet few face any serious consequences for committing crimes as bad as this or worse. What this American soldier did is no worse that what American soldiers did at Haditha. In that case, all but one plea bargained out of serious consequences. One American soldier got a minor slap on the wrist. In the Haditha case and this case, the victims were unarmed civilians. In both cases, innocent men, women and children including babies were gunned down ruthlessly in cold blood. IN both cases, the criminals responsible gunned down mothers with babies in their arms as they begged for their lives. This case is the same in brutality, justification and scale as the Haditha massacre.
Let's put this soldier's actions in perspective. He only murdered 16 civilians. Bush and Cheney gave orders which predictably resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. Bush and Cheney lied and manipulated the American public into supporting an unprovoked war based on false claims regarding WMDs and links to al Queda. This guy should also be able to lie his way out of responsibility for killing innocent civilians just like Dick and George.
The only difference between Bush and Cheney's actions and this soldier's murderous rampage is scale and the way western public perceptions have been manipulated. While you may perceive this murderous rampage as exceptional, that's your viewpoint. Likely most Iraqis and Afghans will see this heinous crime as more of the same.
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So killing the 5 or so children was just so he could put more notches on his kills rep, sad and true
really??? Or is this just another vicious symptom in a series of many UGLY ACTS . Amazing how some will excuse the most barbaric of acts on the basis of "this is war and bad things happen". Yet they fail to see that these wars were ELECTIVE.
The more such incidents take place , the more innured the US population becomes .
Might be time to list ALL the atrocities committed by the INVADERS and examine the amount of money spent in this effort. And no , the acts of those fighting for THEIR country are not an excuse......as they were defending THEIR country the only way they knew how.
The US is supposed to be so much smarter and more advanced...........and yet.....each such atrocities shows different.
This is insanity on so many levels ........including those that support this entire atrocity on whatever excuse that helps them live with themselves.
remember........they did not find OBL for many years ......and it was NOT IN Afghanistan. Talk about egg on US face. Of course they had to assassinate him in cold blood. With his demise.........the US lost so much info about his plans, ideas and the terror network itself. No......KILLING is now the US answer to just about everything.
Listening to this on BBC and it is embarrassing to hear what the US has to say. The same thing they say every time something like this happens. "need to re assess the whole situation". What a load of horse crap.
Are they so stupid or so addicted to war and the power it gives them that they have lost sight of the importance of HUMANITY?? Humanity on both sides....... The troops will never be the same again after this war experience.....and the destruction of lives in Afghanistan is irreparable.
the tragedy affects the Afgans, the US troops., and the US standing (or non standing ) on the world stage. Each such incident leaves another major bruise on "america " and that cannot be undone.
They "broke it" and keep breaking it........
Did you actually READ anywhere where this guy was excused? For a "peace lover" you sure go out of your way to stir up hatred.
Excuse me? I wasn't talking about the civilians getting killed. I was referring to Cliff's comments about soldiers' minds snapping.
I'd suggest you quit presuming and pay attention as to what I was addressing my comments to.
And you do quite repetitively and endlessly, as if we haven't all read your mainly one-sided posts.
That's it. Dodge the topic of this thread by leading in to a rampage of posts dragging up issues of even remotely related topics.
Watching more "details" of this "incident".....and the horror just mounts. The question that remains is: Was it premeditated??
A whole family , kids, some of which were TODDLERS.
for those that claim that this is but one incident............should also adopt the same attitude when US troops are killed by the people defending their own country.
Afgans are royally dissed...............and rightly so.
Maybe they should send their army and attack the US .........as after all, according to US rules of engagement......they would be right in doing so. Is this the kind of "democracy" and "freedom" the US has given them??? Only the kool aide junkies would even use those terms when talking about this invasion and occupation.
This insanity has GOT TO END ......for all concerned.
Afghan Massacre: Just a PR Problem for U.S. Occupation? | Common Dreams
above item........tells it as it is. and no amount of denying will change that.
Massacre of Civilians Ignites Fury in Afghanistan | Common Dreams
A whole family , kids, some of which were TODDLERS.
for those that claim that this is but one incident............should also adopt the same attitude when US troops are killed by the people defending their own country.
Afgans are royally dissed...............and rightly so.
Maybe they should send their army and attack the US .........as after all, according to US rules of engagement......they would be right in doing so. Is this the kind of "democracy" and "freedom" the US has given them??? Only the kool aide junkies would even use those terms when talking about this invasion and occupation.
This insanity has GOT TO END ......for all concerned.
Afghan Massacre: Just a PR Problem for U.S. Occupation? | Common Dreams
above item........tells it as it is. and no amount of denying will change that.
Massacre of Civilians Ignites Fury in Afghanistan
'Let Us Live in Peace,' say Afghans who want US to leave
- Common Dreams staff
Despair, frustration and palpable outrage hangs over Afghanistan on Monday, a day after a US soldier left his military base near Kandahar and massacred 16 Afghan civilians, including nine children. Reporters and investigators are still seeking absolute clarity that only one US soldier was involved, while the Taliban has vowed revenge against the 'sick-minded American savages' behind the attack.
Residents sat with the bodies of shooting victims in the Panjwai district of southern Afghanistan. (Mustafa Khan/European Pressphoto Agency) The lone soldier is now in US custody, but there were calls Monday for any and all guilty US soldiers to be handed over to Afghan authorities for a public trial. Above all, the terrible crime has led many to renew calls for an end to the decade long war and for US forces to leave Afghanistan at once
Massacre of Civilians Ignites Fury in Afghanistan | Common Dreams
A lot of people who have taken part in genocide have gone on to lead fairly normal lives afterwards. Its amazing what a person can do while sane.
Ted Bundy was also quite sane. The judge who sentenced him to death said it was unfortunate as Bundy had a great mind.
We didn't get to the top of the food chain by being nice.