Should a third-time convicted thief be branded on the forehead?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
You have some of the most whacked out ideas. I know....lets tattoo dollar signs on anyone who collects welfare for more than 3 months. Then you and all your pals will feel like you're in a club.
Someone robs my home 3 times, I do not want it branded on the forehead, I would hopefully have had the good fortune to have shot it on the first robbery ( okay, shot it in the leg).
This world sure is strange.
There was a time when it was okay to kill Asians for their pelts, or milk Norwegians and make their milk into skin cream. We raised grass fed Eastern Europeans- Hungarians and Transylvanians primarily - for their meat. We stuffed pillows with the hair that came off of them.
We used to gut and dry native Indians to make potpourris. Once upon a time, we were very good using all naturally raised or grown things to make the world better. Martha Stewart would be proud.
We used to squeeze the French and Italians for their oil, to fuel our lamps. The wicks in those lamps were made from woven lengths of hair harvested from African natives. Females mostly. We did try South American natives, but their hair wasn't coarse enough and the wicks would come apart.
We made bone tools and living room furniture from the hardy folks that lived around the Mediterranean. You'll never guess where the term 'Ottoman' came from! Hey, if you could stand the sun and salt water, your skeleton made a great awl or knife. Dad used to be able to put a long lasting, hard edge to Italian bone knives he made from cast offs. They had to be soaked in the Dead Sea for a time to draw out the toxins.
I guess every human was good for something, except the British. They were soft, greasy and smelled. We just turned them into the soil whenever we found them. They were easy to spot. You just looked for swarms of flies or gagged from an overwhelming stench. They smelled awful in groups of one or more.
But getting back on topic, Aryans used to tattoo people. They were great organizers. If that particular strain of the species had survived, they would have become wonderful accountants.
At any rate, I'm rambling. We have a carnivorous rat beast in the house to prevent robberies. The hungry buggers are almost four feet high at the shoulders with wide, razor sharp rat teeth with which to bite and scrape. The wife always recycles the bones of the would be thieves that met the rat beast.
One day, we'll have to give that critter a name.
There was a time when it was okay to kill Asians for their pelts, or milk Norwegians and make their milk into skin cream. We raised grass fed Eastern Europeans- Hungarians and Transylvanians primarily - for their meat. We stuffed pillows with the hair that came off of them.
We used to gut and dry native Indians to make potpourris. Once upon a time, we were very good using all naturally raised or grown things to make the world better. Martha Stewart would be proud.
We used to squeeze the French and Italians for their oil, to fuel our lamps. The wicks in those lamps were made from woven lengths of hair harvested from African natives. Females mostly. We did try South American natives, but their hair wasn't coarse enough and the wicks would come apart.
We made bone tools and living room furniture from the hardy folks that lived around the Mediterranean. You'll never guess where the term 'Ottoman' came from! Hey, if you could stand the sun and salt water, your skeleton made a great awl or knife. Dad used to be able to put a long lasting, hard edge to Italian bone knives he made from cast offs. They had to be soaked in the Dead Sea for a time to draw out the toxins.
I guess every human was good for something, except the British. They were soft, greasy and smelled. We just turned them into the soil whenever we found them. They were easy to spot. You just looked for swarms of flies or gagged from an overwhelming stench. They smelled awful in groups of one or more.
But getting back on topic, Aryans used to tattoo people. They were great organizers. If that particular strain of the species had survived, they would have become wonderful accountants.
At any rate, I'm rambling. We have a carnivorous rat beast in the house to prevent robberies. The hungry buggers are almost four feet high at the shoulders with wide, razor sharp rat teeth with which to bite and scrape. The wife always recycles the bones of the would be thieves that met the rat beast.
One day, we'll have to give that critter a name.
The statement should be by God, not by the desire of people.
God - be glorified - decided in the Quran (which was the same in the original Torah, not in the present Torah of Ezra); that the hand of such thief should be cut, as a retaliation from God Al-Mighty.
And so that the thief, in the third time of his thefts, should have his hand cut off.
By this way, none will steal from others.
Quran 5: 38, which means:
{And the thief a, male and female: cut off the hands of both, as a recompense of [the theft] that they have earned, and [as] a punishment from God [according to their acts]; God is All-Mighty b, All-Wise c.}
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a i.e. the one who used to steal; i.e. if he steals three times, then his hand will be cut off in case he is an adult and he is sane.
So if he steals for the first time, he will be lashed and imprisoned; and in the second time the lashing and imprisonment will be doubled for him. And in the third time his right hand will be cut off.
That is because God – be glorified – did not say: (The one who steals, then cut off his hand), but this means: "the one used to steal", then his hand will be cut off if he steals one dinar or more [at the time of interpreting the aya about 1968, the dinar equaled more than three dollars or one and a half pound: the value of the dollar and pound at that time – the translator.]
b In His kingdom: He punishes those who contradict His commands.
c About "cutting off the hand" to which He commands you.
As s'ma'ee, the writer of the Arab literature, said: I was reciting this aya, but I made a mistake and recited (God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful) instead of (God is All-Mighty, All-Wise).
Beside me there was a Bedouin Arab, who said: "Whose word is this?"
I said: "The word of God."
He said: "It can't be the word of God."
So I became alert and corrected it to mean (God is All-Mighty, All-Wise).
He said: "Now you have recited correctly; this indeed is the word of God."
I said: "Do you read the Quran?"
He said: "No."
I said: "How then have you known about my mistake?"
He said: "God has the authority and might, so [in this aya] He decided [for the thief] and cut off [his hand]; had He forgiven and been Merciful [in this instance], He would not have cut off." [Therefore, the words used in the aya, should imply the authority and might, and should not imply the forgiveness and mercy. This story implies the eloquence and fluency of the Glorious Quran.]
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/5.htm#a5_38
How many people steal with their leg?
You would (have to) be insane to steal the 3rd time knowing it would mean your lose your hand(s).selfsame;2339649 [COLOR=Red said:
It is not the matter of the hand or the leg; it is the act of the theft.
In the Torah of Ezra (included in the present Old Testament) the punishment of the thief is that he should be fined, so that the one who steals a cow should fined five cows.
Abu abd-Allah said:
"This [judicial sentence of the Ezra's Torah] is not correct and is not rational: because the one that steals a cow or a sheep, must be poor who does not own any cow or sheep, then how can he afford five cows to pay the fine of his theft?
In fact, God's judicial sentence in the original Torah was the cutting off of the hand, just like in the Quran, but Ezra changed this sentence in his Torah as an alleviation of the thief sentence."
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The next aya means:
{5: 39. But whoso repents d after his evil-doing, and amends e, then God will turn toward him f; surely, God is Most Forgiving g [and] Most Merciful h.}
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d From stealing.
e his corruption: by returning back the stolen money [to its owner] or seeking after the pardon: that the owner of the stolen property may pardon him, and moreover he decides that he should not steal any more.
f i.e. God will accept his repentance.
g To those who repent.
h To those who regret.
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/5.htm#a5_39
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The following aya:
[When the previous aya was revealed about the judicial sentence for the male and female thieves that their hands should be cut off, some of the hypocrites objected to that and denied the hand cutting off.
This in fact was because of a plight of the Jews when they heard the judicial sentence for the thief in the Quran, and they said to those hypocrites:
"Mohammed wants to cut off your hands, because this is not the judicial sentence for the thief in the Torah, but if a man steals an ox and slaughters it or sells it, he must pay back five oxen for the ox; and if he steals an ewe, he must pay back four sheep for it. This is written in the Book of Exodus, chapter 22.
So the Prophet – salam to him – was grieved because of their words and denial;
therefore, this aya was revealed:]
{5: 40. Don't you [Mohammed] know that the sovereignty of 'the heavens and the earth'a a belongs to God: He punishes whom He wills, and forgives to whom He likes b b; God is All-Able to do everything.}
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a a i.e. the ownership of the planets including the earth; so, Mohammed, don't pay attention to their words and their denial.
b b i.e. He punishes anyone deserves the punishment, and forgives to anyone repents and is prepared for forgiveness.
{5: 39. But whoso repents d after his evil-doing, and amends e, then God will turn toward him f; surely, God is Most Forgiving g [and] Most Merciful h.}
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d From stealing.
e his corruption: by returning back the stolen money [to its owner] or seeking after the pardon: that the owner of the stolen property may pardon him, and moreover he decides that he should not steal any more.
f i.e. God will accept his repentance.
g To those who repent.
h To those who regret.
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/5.htm#a5_39
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The following aya:
[When the previous aya was revealed about the judicial sentence for the male and female thieves that their hands should be cut off, some of the hypocrites objected to that and denied the hand cutting off.
This in fact was because of a plight of the Jews when they heard the judicial sentence for the thief in the Quran, and they said to those hypocrites:
"Mohammed wants to cut off your hands, because this is not the judicial sentence for the thief in the Torah, but if a man steals an ox and slaughters it or sells it, he must pay back five oxen for the ox; and if he steals an ewe, he must pay back four sheep for it. This is written in the Book of Exodus, chapter 22.
So the Prophet – salam to him – was grieved because of their words and denial;
therefore, this aya was revealed:]
{5: 40. Don't you [Mohammed] know that the sovereignty of 'the heavens and the earth'a a belongs to God: He punishes whom He wills, and forgives to whom He likes b b; God is All-Able to do everything.}
....................................................................
a a i.e. the ownership of the planets including the earth; so, Mohammed, don't pay attention to their words and their denial.
b b i.e. He punishes anyone deserves the punishment, and forgives to anyone repents and is prepared for forgiveness.
What about these guys? They must be guilty of something. Smoking in a building? Stealing stuff? How many times have they done this? What should we brand, tattoo or cut off as punishment? And no, I'm not the guy in the back, right.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVjpceA58zs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVjpceA58zs