Sharia Judge Says It Is OK for Husbands to Slap spendthrift Wives.

SirJosephPorter

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Try to understand what I am going to tell you here, Joe: I was joking.


I realize you were joking, Gilbert, but I wasn’t. All the holy books are available on line, there is no need to buy any of them.

I remember a couple of years ago I found out that Zoroastrian Holy Book, Zend Avesta, is available on line. I started reading it but found it boring and soon gave up.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Indonesia is quite Muslim too by the way, and yet quite different in its understanding of Shari'a as Saudis for example.

Machjo, Indonesia is an oddball, and totally different from other Muslim countries (it is the biggest Muslim country in the world). It used to be Hindu before converting to Islam, and even today one can see strong influence of Hinduism there. Indonesians themselves say that their religion is Islam, but their culture is Hindu.

They still perform plays based upon Hindu epics Ramayana and Mahabharata, one sees them everywhere. People there have Sanskrit names for the most part. I remember a few years ago they convicted a terrorist, his name was Imam Samudra, a Sanskrit word for ocean.

Indonesian airline is Garuda, a Sanskrit word for an eagle. Even their currency is called Rupiah, which is a Sanskrit word. Indian currency used to be called Rupiah, but British changed the name to rupee, and Indians haven’t changed it back yet.

Perhaps because of the strong influence of Hinduism, there isn’t as much terrorism in Indonesia as there is in other Islamic countries.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Fascinating :sleepy2:
So you like straightlining jokes and stating the obvious?

Well now, Gilbert, I assume to your supergiganitc brain everything is obvious. But for a slow learner like me it takes time. For instance, I assume you could have told me without even looking on the internet that Zend Avesta was available on line (you probably could even tell me what is written in it), but I didn’t know that.

So don’t judge or compare everybody to your gargantuan, gigantic, genius brain.
 

darkbeaver

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Indonesia is quite Muslim too by the way, and yet quite different in its understanding of Shari'a as Saudis for example.

Machjo, Indonesia is an oddball, and totally different from other Muslim countries (it is the biggest Muslim country in the world). It used to be Hindu before converting to Islam, and even today one can see strong influence of Hinduism there. Indonesians themselves say that their religion is Islam, but their culture is Hindu.

They still perform plays based upon Hindu epics Ramayana and Mahabharata, one sees them everywhere. People there have Sanskrit names for the most part. I remember a few years ago they convicted a terrorist, his name was Imam Samudra, a Sanskrit word for ocean.

Indonesian airline is Garuda, a Sanskrit word for an eagle. Even their currency is called Rupiah, which is a Sanskrit word. Indian currency used to be called Rupiah, but British changed the name to rupee, and Indians haven’t changed it back yet.

Perhaps because of the strong influence of Hinduism, there isn’t as much terrorism in Indonesia as there is in other Islamic countries.

Clumsy old SJP, there isn't as much oil in Indonesia either. Could there be a connection. There is every evidence that the terrorists themselves do not belong to either the Islamics nor the Indonesians. The Hindu influence hasn't dampened terrorism in India to any extent. You know some Hindus get along very well with some Mossad people.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Clumsy old SJP, there isn't as much oil in Indonesia either. Could there be a connection.

Darkbeaver, there is absolutely no connection between oil and terrorism, except perhaps in your fertile imagination. Show me who says that such a connection exists.

Countries such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia have no oil, yet are hotbeds of terrorism. Countries such as Jordan, Britain, Norway, Canada are awash in oil, yet there is no terrorism there.

So where is this connation between terrorism and oil? Perhaps there is some secret cabal somewhere which controls all the oil in the world and plots acts of terrorism all over the world?

The Hindu influence hasn't dampened terrorism in India to any extent.

It most certainly has. It may help to study the differences between different religions, they don’t all look alike, you know. Hindu religion (along with Buddhism, Jainism etc.) is big on nonviolence. Hindus are for the most part nonviolent people.

That doesn’t mean there is no violence, no terrorism in India, there is some everywhere. But look at India’s population (in excess of 1 billion), look at population of Islamic countries and then tell me that there is as much terrorism (or more) in India as there is in Pakistan, Somalia or Afghanistan.

As a tourist, I would have no problem visiting ‘hotbed of terrorism’ India (in fact, we did visit it two years ago), but no way am I going to visit the ‘havens of peace’ like Pakistan or Afghanistan.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Johnnny, a Hindu normally wouldn’t hate you because you belong to a different religion (like a Muslim or a Christian may). He may have a personal grudge against you of course, that is a different story.

Hindu religion is different from Islam and Christianity in that it is an inclusivist religion, it accepts that there may be more than one path towards salvation. I think Hinduism itself describes four or five paths, along with the caveat that the list may not be complete.

So there is very little of religion based violence, religion based terrorism in India. What is there is mostly confined to attacking Christian missionaries, who try to convert the poor, illiterate Hindus (and in that case there are faults on both sides).

But if you look at Indian history, you will find very few instances of Hindu kings going to war for their religion, as Muslim and Christian kings routinely did.

The religions which descended from Hinduism, (Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism etc.) also inherited the inclusivist trait, they also accept that there may be more than one path to salvation.

So Hindus flying planes into Sears tower in the name of God Vishnu or God Brahma? Never happen.
 

karrie

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thats true when i lived in surrey, the hindus were more friendly than the punjabs

? One's a region, one's a religion. They're not mutually exclusive. Hindus can be from Punjab, and Punjabis can be any assortment of different religions.
 

lone wolf

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The diversity among Muslims is not that widespread. There may be a few who think that Koran doesn’t give man a permission to eat his wife, or that Koran says that a man is allowed only one wife, but they are in distinct minority.


Well ... THAT does it.... Call off the ceremony. Tell Allah I'm sorry but I've changed my mind. As if I didn't have to wait long enough for my 72 virgins on a river of honey - now you say I can't even eat my wife????
 

SirJosephPorter

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my bad the people from Pakistan that spoke punjabi

As karrie said, indeed it is complicated. The state of Punjab (in India) has two populations, Hindu and Sikh. So a Punjabi from Indian state of Punjab may be a Hindu or a Sikh.

But there is also the state (or the province) of Punjab in Pakistan (I think Punjab was divided during the partition, but I am not sure). So if somebody is from Punjab in Pakistan, he definitely is a Muslim.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Genius, yes; gargantuan and gigantic, no.
Books available online? Whooda thunk it?

Anyway, There are a few religions around that don't think degrading women is a good idea: Buddhism, Paganism, Jainism, etc.

It may be too much to take in for that genius brain of yours (you denied gargantuan and gigantic, so I will stick to genius), but not everything is available on internet. Offhand I can name several books which are not available on internet.

Buddhism, Paganism (what is that?), Jainism don’t think degrading women is a good idea? Don’t you believe it, they all consider women to be second class citizens. Hinduism is the worst culprit of them all (I said something good about Hinduism, it is only fair that I bash it now, I am an equal opportunity basher), worse even than Islam and Christianity.
 

Goober

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It may be too much to take in for that genius brain of yours (you denied gargantuan and gigantic, so I will stick to genius), but not everything is available on internet. Offhand I can name several books which are not available on internet.

Buddhism, Paganism (what is that?), Jainism don’t think degrading women is a good idea? Don’t you believe it, they all consider women to be second class citizens. Hinduism is the worst culprit of them all (I said something good about Hinduism, it is only fair that I bash it now, I am an equal opportunity basher), worse even than Islam and Christianity.

SJP
As a renowned expert on Religions could you enlighten those of us in the darkness of believers on how you would rate the major Religions on their treatment of women -
 

SirJosephPorter

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SJP
As a renowned expert on Religions could you enlighten those of us in the darkness of believers on how you would rate the major Religions on their treatment of women -

I will be happy to, Goober. I will consider Hinduism, Christianity and Islam, the three major religions in the world. I doubt if the minor religions (Judaism, Buddhism etc.) are much better.

Christianity regards wife as her husband’s servant, or his property. Thus in the 10th Commandant (I looked it up, I don’t know all the Commandments by heart, just a few of them) it lumps the wife together with servants, ox, donkey or any other things that belong to the neighbour. Thou shalt not covet etc.

Here at least implicitly Bible says that wife is husband’s property. Then of course, there is the advice to the wife, to be submissive to the husband. Man is the head of the household, wife is his chattel. She is expected to obey him. It is very much a master – servant relationship.

In Islam, one man is equal to two women. This irrespective of education, intelligence, upbringing etc. of the man or the woman. Thus, even the most educated, having a well paying job, somebody in position of authority, somebody who may be proficient in several languages, even such a woman is only half the worth of the village idiot, the man.

Islam regards woman as subhuman, only half human, little better than animal.

Hinduism is the most horrible of all as far as women are concerned. In Hinduism the husband – wife relationship is that between God and his Disciple. Husband is the God, wife is his worshipper, his Disciple. Let us consider the implications of this.

In Christianity, wife is husband’s servants. Now, even servants have a few rights. She is entitled to expect food from her husband, she would expect that husband provide for her, not mistreat her or beat her without just cause etc. Also, he cannot ask her to do anything against the Bible, if he does, she is free to disobey him.

In Islam, it is more animal – owner relationship. But even here, while animal doesn’t have any rights, most of us expect that animals should be treated kindly, not abused, not beaten unnecessarily etc. While wife must obey husband in every aspect without question, without hesitation, Islam would not look kindly upon a husband who beats his wife, mistreats his wife without a just cause (we don’t treat animals that way).

However, can God be ever wrong? Can any of his actions be considered wrong? No. Since husband is wife’s God, anything he tells his wife to do, she must obey, because he can never be wrong. Thus, if husband orders the wife to become a prostitute, she must obey. Here there is no question of husband ordering wife to do anything against religion, because husband's word is wife’s religion. That is Hinduism in a nutshell.

Thus, in Hinduism there are detailed instructions as to how a man should behave, how he may achieve salvation etc. To the wife, there is only one Commandment, obey your husband.

Even if wife is committing a sin such as prostitution, murder or whatever, no sin attaches to the wife if she did it in order to obey her husband. The sin will be attached to the husband, but not the wife, she is only obeying her God.

So in Hinduism, the Commandment to obey the husband is absolute, no exceptions.

Let me summarize (perhaps in a simplistic manner) the husband – wife relationship in the three religions.

Christianity: master/servant relationship.
Islam: owner/animal relationship
Hinduism : God/Disciple relationship.
 

darkbeaver

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I didn't say I was better or worse.
I just said that 'christians' weren't necessarily better than muslims.


You are quite right, tenpenny, human nature is the same everywhere. However, while Christians may not be better than Muslims, there is a big difference between Christianity and Islam.

To be fair, Bible is fully as vicious towards women as Koran, Bible regards wife as her husband’s servant, her husband’s property and commands a woman to be submissive to her husband. However, Christians have had the Reformation. These days, very few Christians take the Bible literally. Even those who claim to be Fundamentalists, are not really Fundamentalists, they interpret the Bible same as everybody else (e.g. I doubt if even a Fundamentalist would take the Biblical quote ‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live’ seriously). So, many Christians do not believe that women are inferior to men, no mater what the Bible says. Or how many Churches observe Paul’s diktat, let a woman be seen but not heard in a church? Only the most extreme churches do.

But Islam never had a Reformation. Most Imams, Mullahs and Ayatollahs take Koran literally. People are easily influenced by the clerics. So when clerics say that is it OK for a man to beat his wife because Koran says so, the society at large goes along.

Muslims need a Reformation, same as Christian, they have to learn not to take Koran literally. That is a big difference between Muslims and Christians.
I'm not sure what you think the reformation (schism) was SJP but it does smack a little of devine intervention. Are you intimating that this is the case?
 

Cannuck

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Christianity regards wife as her husband’s servant, or his property. Thus in the 10th Commandant (I looked it up, I don’t know all the Commandments by heart, just a few of them) it lumps the wife together with servants, ox, donkey or any other things that belong to the neighbour. Thou shalt not covet etc.

The ten commandments are from the old testament. Christianity is not based on the old testament. Jesus was purported to have said that there was a new covenant. The rules of the old testament don't necessarily apply. Granted, some folks who call themselves Christian like to cherry pick from the OT. The same thing goes for some pompous twits who believe they are a renowned expert on religions. Cherry picking bible quotes only prove that one has a complete lack of understanding about what the bible is. Of course, the same could be said of the Quran, the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita, the Adi Granth and many others.
 

SirJosephPorter

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I'm not sure what you think the reformation (schism) was SJP but it does smack a little of devine intervention. Are you intimating that this is the case?

Darkbeaver, Reformation in Europe started with Maritn Luther. That led to the modernization of Christianity. Before Reformaiton, Christianity was fully as nasty as Islam is today (with Crusades, Inquisition, With burning etc.). Read more about it here.

Protestant Reformation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia