Minimum wage rises in Canada

[Machjo]

I think we have a big problem in Canada- the one's making the stupid decisions aren't the ones struggling with the pay cheque.

Like I said. As long as they can hedge most of that money in stocks, then what's the big deal. That's what I do. But hey, like the saying goes,'let them eat cake'.:lol:

Oh, that lead to revolution. Oops.

 

[JLM]

Like I said. As long as they can hedge most of that money in stocks, then what's the big deal. That's what I do. But hey, like the saying goes,'let them eat cake'.:lol:

Oh, that lead to revolution. Oops.

Not to mention the loss of a couple of heads. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Machjo]

Not to mention the loss of a couple of heads. :lol::lol::lol:

Yeah, that could be an issue. But hey, why learn from history when you can just repeat it? Inflate I say. We shall hedge, and the masses can eat cake. We'll throw them the crumbs of a minimum wage hike every now and again.:lol:

 

[JLM]

Yeah, that could be an issue. But hey, why learn from history when you can just repeat it? Inflate I say. We shall hedge, and the masses can eat cake. We'll throw them the crumbs of a minimum wage hike every now and again.:lol:

I suppose looking on the bright side, as these minimum wage earners get hungrier and hungrier, they will very soon draw the conclusion that these raises aren't all they are cracked up to be. :smile::smile:

 

[Machjo]

I suppose looking on the bright side, as these minimum wage earners get hungrier and hungrier, they will very soon draw the conclusion that these raises aren't all they are cracked up to be. :smile::smile:

No problem. Raise them more frequently as we inflate ever faster.

Anyone who's ever seen a dog chasing its tail knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Machjo]

But on a serious note, that's what I'd like about co-determination laws to replace minimum wage laws. The government could focus on fighting inflation while workers could negotiate fair wages on an equal footing with their employers. This would also mean that when we experience drops in prices, that they could negotiate wages downward if necessary so as to save their jobs. This is not possible with legal minimum wages, leaving the government no choice in times of recession but to inflate its way out, as appears to be the case yet again.

 

[VanIsle]

I believe that you are a very conscientious practical person who has good sense about the value of work. So take the following as observations and questions at large and not any debunking of your own observations of which I'm in general agreement.

A/ I'm guite sure that work has been systematically devalued over the last six decades and historically there is an observable pattern of the same. It's called capital efficiency these days I guess.
I would agree with maybe the last 20 years - not the last 60. The work ethic we grew up with is gone. Working for a union makes it even worse.
B/ all work and no play makes jack a dull boy
All play and no work makes Jack broke and useless.

C/ I know better now the value of work when I can no longer perform it.
I don't know that I really agree with you. Of course we know the value of work when we are no longer ABLE to perform it. It that is what you mean then I do agree.

E/ How do you get through the systems glitz to instill practical work ethics and

practices in the young these days when there is no lack of useless games to play?
You take control of your workplace (the owner takes control). There has to be a way to set up computers like parents can via parental controls. Instead of parental controls they would be employer controls. Any employee that is in an area of their computer they should not be should set off an alarm so everyone knows. The games stop and the work begins. For general purposes where computers are not involved, you fire people for a lack of work ethics. I see it happen all the time. Sadly though, all you can legally ask a former employer is "Would you hire him/her again?". I have seen a number of kids that have decided not to show up for work or use their cell phones during work hours etc. They do fire them on the spot. They move on to other jobs but after a few months, they are hanging around the store again and they do not have a job. They don't hang onto the next one either.

O/ What role does our celebrity worship of the movers and shakers play in the corrupted state of modern western traditional work ethics?
I think the kids today are smart enough to understand that the movers and the shakers are a world apart from them. They know that they are never going to have that kind of money.


T/ University is full time labour intensive employment, there is no way it can be an efficient producer of grade A product when the system extracts the labour simultaneously with the study, whatever that might be. So we get undereducated graduates molded for the system and not for the state/nation/life.
Here we agree. It's not just at the University level. It's in all levels of education. Today I read my grandson's report card. Grade 6. So at this level, we don't have a job interfering, but we have family problems interfering. How consistant is the teacher here: (One example on his report card) Math: 1st term he gets a letter grade of B. This reporting period his letter grade is C+ . I read down the list of four areas to see where he might be lacking. On the first term his marks in Math were: 3; 3; 2; 2. (Letter grade was a B) On the second term his marks in Math were: 3; 3; 3; 2. (so he's up one over the first term as the marks are based on 1 being the worst and 4 being the best). How do you think his teacher arrived at the conclusion that his overall mark should go down??? In his language arts, every mark was identical. His letter grade moved from a C- to a C. In his social studies, he went down one mark and lost a whole letter grade. I could see moving from a B to a C+ but he went down to a C. Again - in his Personal Planning - not a single change in marks except that he moved from a C- to a C. How confusing is all this to a 12 year old?
How hard is it to work two jobs and study for school? Too much responsibilty to take on at such a young age is what we all think. Then I look back. Motherhood is also a career. No wage there at all. You can take one 19 year old who gets married, has a child and raises that child and more with all the love and care in the world. Total responsibility. You can take another 19 year old who maybe doesn't get married, has a child, doesn't want to look after it, neglects it and spends the rest of her life, as an unfit Mother. Sometimes there are some inbetween. I guess what I am saying is - you either grow up responsible or you live with parents who never make you responsible for anything. For the most part, see irresponsible parents and you'll get irresponsible kids who will again raise irresponsible kids.

B/ Gordon Campbell gives me the creeps, whenever I hear or see him I instinctively think I'm about to be defiled by some of that evil goo that drips out of every pore on his scaled body. :smile:

Gordon Campbell worries many people of BC. Once again I say - I did not vote for him and if I knew how to get him out of office, I would do so. There is a lack of good paying jobs here, thanks to Gordon Campbell. There is a lack of services here, thanks to GC. I could sit here til' midnight listing all his faults. I don't have anything good to say about him so I would not waste your time or mine.

 

[JLM]

Gordon Campbell worries many people of BC. Once again I say - I did not vote for him and if I knew how to get him out of office, I would do so. There is a lack of good paying jobs here, thanks to Gordon Campbell. There is a lack of services here, thanks to GC. I could sit here til' midnight listing all his faults. I don't have anything good to say about him so I would not waste your time or mine.

You certainly have that right, but unfortunately in B.C. the alternative is worse.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Honestly though, the solution is not to keep raising the minimum wage indefinitely like a dog chasing its tail. It would be better to bring prices under control. Besides, of what use is a minimum wage if it just falls below equilibrium again within a year. It's just added useless legislation.

I don’t think it ever falls below the equilibrium level, whenever the minimum wage is raised many people do benefit. And it does act as floor for the wages, protection for the poor.

In a capitalistic society, the poor are the most vulnerable, they are the ones most in need of protection. In a free for all, Devil take the hindmost society, the weakest members are always going to suffer. Unbridled capitalism results in survival of the fittest.

Now, while survival of the fittest may be a good rule for natural evolution, it is a terrible rule when it comes to human society. A compassionate, progressive society must look after its poor. Keeping the minimum wage and raising it from time to time is part of it.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

So why then did you not just pay those extra pennies prior to the minimum wage legislation? Had the government simply given the workers the power to negotiate on equal terms, they might have been earning those pennies already before the legislation passed. So from the workers' perspective, just giving them more negotiating power would be more useful than minimum wage legislation for which they have to wait and are at the mercy of the government's whims.

Sometimes some employers need that extra push of the legislation to raise the wage. That is human nature, even though we know that something is right, that something should be done, we don't really do it until we are compelled to do it.

In this case, maybe the employer realizes that he should increase the wage, but it may not occur until an employee walks in and demands a raise (not all employees are so bold, some of them may be afraid they may lose their job if they tried that) or until the employer is forced by the legislation. Sometimes employers need that extra push.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

...a couple of years ago they where $0.89 out here...nasty. Huge jump, & I'm
surrounded by wheat fields, but not by flour mills. Weird.

And can one honestly blame that on minimum wage? It is very easy to blame the poor for each and every ill of the society.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Like I said. As long as they can hedge most of that money in stocks, then what's the big deal. That's what I do. But hey, like the saying goes,'let them eat cake'.:lol:

Oh, that lead to revolution. Oops.

If there is rampant inflation, stocks are not safe, they fall in value. Nobody wins if there is rampant inflation.

And do you seriously think that minimum wage is going to cause all this? That it will lead to rampant inflation, ruining of the economy, collapse of our monetary system? You attach too much important to the minimum wage.

And if minimum wage is such an ultimate evil, why hasn’t our civilization already collapsed, we have increased minimum wage many times now (at least liberals have, I know conservatives have a perpetual enmity with the poor, they rarely raise the minimum wage, one of the reasons why rich get richer and poor get poorer under conservative rule). Shouldn’t our economy have collapsed by now under the pressure of inflation?

The fact is, minimum wage has minimal influence on the economy, as has been proved for more than a generation. When minimum wage is raised, it hardly causes a ripple in the economy. Talks of minimum wage resulting in Weimar Republic are fearmongering, nothing more.

 

[JLM]

Should we try & compare the O.P. to this?: Consumer Price Index, by province (monthly)

I just checked this out and was quite surprised to note B.C. is the cheapest province in which to live or has had the lowest rate of inflation anyway. Maybe our illustrious premier is doing something right- albeit p*ssing off the electorate doing it. Hate to give the Devil his due (in this case) but I suppose if it went the other way we'd be blaming him.

 

[Colpy]

The problem here is not how much money we are paying out to those at the bottom of the scale......it is the ever-increasing gap between the relative wealth of the richest and the working poor in our society.....

And yes I'm serious. Really. We need higher minimum wages, more labour legislation that protects workers, forced benefit packages....etc......

The socialists have take over my brain.

 

[JLM]

If there is a MINIMUM WAGE, there should be a MINIMUM requirement of goods/services provided to earn and deserve that wage.

Fair bet is that a test measuring the value of mimimum services/goods provided for a mimimum wage received would fail rather miserably, everywhere.

YOu're talkin' sense again Y.J. - I just got to wondering if small fish do better on a rising tide. :smile:

 

[JLM]

The problem here is not how much money we are paying out to those at the bottom of the scale......it is the ever-increasing gap between the relative wealth of the richest and the working poor in our society.....

And yes I'm serious. Really. We need higher minimum wages, more labour legislation that protects workers, forced benefit packages....etc......

The socialists have take over my brain.

Now you are zeroing in on the problem, Colpy- cutting wages by 25% at the top of the scale might be the best solution. :smile:

 

[Zzarchov]

Minimum wages are required to both ensure our privacy and maintain a functioning economy.

People being paid what they are worth (capitalism) requires a free flow of information. If I want to go buy a bag of oranges, I go compare the price of two bags of oranges and I can ask what others paid for a bag of oranges.

With wages not only can I not see the different prices, many if not most employment contracts have clauses where you are not allowed to discuss you wages, thus removing the free market from the labour market.

So we have two choices, we can do as some of the much vaunted nordic countries do and make tax returns public documents (you now know how much your coworkers are paid and can bargain for a fair pay for your labour) or we can set a minimum wage.

I'd love to have all tax information public. Public scrutiny would root out fraud, wages would be better adjusted to real value and determined by free market bargaining. In countries where this has been implemented wages tend to level out, people know what their coworkers make and can ask for more while companies know what their staff's peers in other companies make and can adjust their compensation appropriatly.

You can't have a free market without free information in that market.

 

[Liberalman]

It’s all about competition and price gouging and price fixing.

It’s also about getting more tax money for the government and it’s also about paying minimal welfare from local governments.

In Alberta’s case the prices are high and the minimum wages are low is because anybody who asks for welfare are given a one way bus ticket to another province and told to apply for welfare there.

Some parts of the country prices are low and others it is high.

Blame it on the free enterprise system or supply and demand it is what it is.

 

[#juan]

We should stop calling it "minimum wage" because nobody can live on it unless they partner with somebody. What I'me saying is that a single person cannot pay rent, and utilities, and eat, on what you make at minimum wage.
We should be forcing employers to pay a "living wage". The minimum wage also becomes the maximum wage so we are imprisoning people to poverty.

 

[JLM]

We should stop calling it "minimum wage" because nobody can live on it unless they partner with somebody. What I'me saying is that a single person cannot pay rent, and utilities, and eat, on what you make at minimum wage.
We should be forcing employers to pay a "living wage". The minimum wage also becomes the maximum wage so we are imprisoning people to poverty.

I'm not sure if it's an employers responsibility to concern himself with what his wage will buy- some people do quite nicely by having two jobs. I'm not at all surprised that one would have a hard time paying the rent on minimum wage............but whose fault is that? I can remember when minimum wage (unofficially) was a $1 an hour and you could rent a decent house for $30 a month, and no one had a problem, but then the escalation of wages and the impending costs of living started until we reached the dire straits we are in today. It's funny how everyone is having a problem paying their rent but everyone has I pods, cell phones, blackberries, D.V.D.s A.T.V.s The world is going nuts.