No need to apologize - Hard work, honest work,
means an honest dollar made. No need to apologize for that.
Israel Warns Neighbors Over March To Jerusalem
- Thread starter Liberalman
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No need to apologize - Hard work, honest work,
means an honest dollar made. No need to apologize for that.
I did answer your question. You wanted to know if I believed Palestinians faced any justice for their actions. I described how thousands of Palestinians are locked up in Israeli dungeons. I never said it was humane or fair for all of them, but some of them probably deserve to be locked up, or their incarceration is "just". However I don't think locking up children or wives of people of interest is just.
If you want to know if Palestinians lock up Palestinians who kill Israelis, then the answer is sometimes. Palestinian authorities do lock up Palestinians who violate ceasefire agreements.
Hamas official slams factions for firing rockets into Israel_English_Xinhua
They don't lock up Palestinians fighting for freedom and justice.
Regarding the validity of "This Week in Palestine". Its a Palestinian online newspaper, not a web log.
http://thisweekinpalestine.com/
Sure they have a pro-Palestinian editorial slant, just like CNN or the CBC has a pro-Israeli editorial slant. They are the only Palestinian news source I know. I'd say they are about as spin free as CNN, but not as bad as Fox.... This Week in Palestine is the only source I know that lists every Israeli attack against Palestinians. No I would not accept their "interpretation" of the facts as 100% distortion free. They call the creation of Israel "al Nakba" or "The Catastrophe". However they report every Israeli attack and all the injured and dead, which they call martyrs, if their death was related to the jihad (struggle) for freedom and justice... You have to take into account that some words and ideas don't translate well from Arabic to English. Plus unburden yourself of manipulated meanings. For example the word "jihad" doesn't necessarily mean strapping on dynamite underwear. It implies a long struggle to achieve a worthwhile goal. It could be the liberation of Palestine. It could also mean getting a university degree or raising children to be responsible adults.
The online newspaper "This week in Palestine" is not even remotely close to "ReligionOfPeace" or "JihadWatch". This Week in Palestine is a Palestinian news source. It gives Palestinians a voice. Canadians seldom get the Palestinian viewpoint, which IMO is just as valid as an Israeli viewpoint, which is normally the only viewpoint we get in Canada.
I'm not suggesting that you accept what "This Week in Palestine" publishes without question. I am suggesting that you won't have an accurate perception of this conflict by just listening to Israeli sources or the Canadian MSM, which ignores the Palestinian narrative.
If you have another Palestinian news source or can reference another website which accurately provides numbers of dead and injured Palestinians, without any spin, please feel free to share.
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Suggestion - Save Gerry some time - Provide your site listing so he knows not to use known biased sites.
Still having a problem answering my question.
No dummy, you stated that IDF soldiers and Israeli citizens are not brought to justice by Israel for their crimes, namely the killing of innocent Palestinian children. I asked you to show me how those responsible for the deaths of innocent Israeli's have been brought to justice by their own government. You have not done that.
Can you give me a single example of a Palestinian deliberately murdering an innocent Israeli citizen who isn't dead or locked up in an Israeli dungeon? Someone who the Palestinian authorities are protecting or haven't arrested. As far as I know, none exist. I can give you many examples of Israelis who deliberately killed innocent Palestinians who live freely in Israel or the Occupied Palestinian Territories and were never brought to justice. I can't think of a single example of the reverse situation.
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Look in Syria. I am sure you will find them if you bother to look at the terrorists living there.
And still have not answered Gerry's question - Nor mine - What a suprise.
I never said anything about them having to have been IN Israel when they caused the deaths of innocent Israeli's. There are lots of examples of rockets fired from Palestinian land into Israel that have killed innocent Israeli's. Or are you of the same opinion of those firing the rockets that there is no such thing as an innocent Israeli?
Those rockets and mortars are fired by militants in the general direction of Israel. Since those rockets are aimed generally, Palestinian authorities have no way of knowing which rockets and mortars hit military targets and which ones killed innocent civilians. Yes that is a war crime, because its criminally irresponsible, but no its not deliberate murder. That activity is not the same as walking up to someone and shooting them, which would be deliberate murder. Since the Palestinian authorities approve these war crimes, that would make the authorities culpable, in the same way that Israeli authorities are culpable of ordering the IDF to commit war crimes. In such cases where the authorities commit waar crimes then its up to a third party to bring those responsible to the ICJ in the Hague.
BTW, I can give many examples where Israelis have gotten away with deliberately murdering Palestinians, but I can't think of a single example of the reverse situation, where the person responsible isn't dead or incarcerated.
BTW, I can give many examples where Israelis have gotten away with deliberately murdering Palestinians, but I can't think of a single example of the reverse situation, where the person responsible isn't dead or incarcerated.
So, in other words, those that are responsible are not brought to justice. Seems to me that both sides have very little to take the high road with.
and before you do your usual number comparison..... it matters not whether the death toll to innocents is one or one thousand. In reality, both sides are fully responsible for ALL the deaths on both sides.
gerryh: "Seems to me that both sides have very little to take the high road with."
I agree with you gerryh. If you read my posts, you'll see I've made similar statements many times.
I agree with you gerryh. If you read my posts, you'll see I've made similar statements many times.
IF, and from where I sit it is a VERY big if, you have it has been buried in your continual one sided condemnation of Israel.
Does "I fail to see why Canada should support one group of war criminals over the other side's war criminals." sound familiar?
Which is usually challenged by people here who claim Israel is a shining beacon of freedom and democracy in the middle east, or that Israelis don't commit war crimes.... which prompts a response from me...
If someone claimed that Palestinians didn't commit war crimes, then they'd get a list of Palestinian war crimes and atrocities from me. So what you interpret as one sided is me rebutting one sided claims about Israel's innocence.
Has anyone here claimed that Palestinians don't commit war crimes? I must have missed that post....
Which is usually challenged by people here who claim Israel is a shining beacon of freedom and democracy in the middle east, or that Israelis don't commit war crimes.... which prompts a response from me...
If someone claimed that Palestinians didn't commit war crimes, then they'd get a list of Palestinian war crimes and atrocities from me. So what you interpret as one sided is me rebutting one sided claims about Israel's innocence.
Has anyone here claimed that Palestinians don't commit war crimes? I must have missed that post....
this is the most telling when it comes to Palestine and Hamas. This is a statement from Hamas concerning the death of Israeli settlers including the knifing of a sleeping 14 month old baby.
"The report of five murdered Israelis is not enough to punish someone," said Hamas Spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri, adding, "However; we in Hamas completely support the resistance against settlers who murder and use crime and terror against the Palestinian people under the auspices of the Israeli occupation soldiers."
Gaza celebrates; Fayyad condemns terror attack - Israel News, Ynetnews
"The report of five murdered Israelis is not enough to punish someone," said Hamas Spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri, adding, "However; we in Hamas completely support the resistance against settlers who murder and use crime and terror against the Palestinian people under the auspices of the Israeli occupation soldiers."
Gaza celebrates; Fayyad condemns terror attack - Israel News, Ynetnews
You're as real as the Great Spirit? Cool. Are you a chick like her too?
That sounds suspiciously like a defence, to me.
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Just cannot answer a straight question.It is one of your trademarks. I do miss SJP, he at least could write well. You well, cannot.
Still waiting - Do you still claim that i have never condemned Israeli war Crimes or acts of murder.
Come on - That was your post - do you still stand by that claim?
What a friend the Palestinians have in thee eh. The high road literally belongs to Palestine, every blade of grass, every rock and every curve. The occupiers are nothing but lying murdering thieves.
wikipedia has an entry on Hamas spokes person Sami Abu Zuhri (سامي أبو زُهْري, Sámí Åbú Zʋẻrí). He is a senior spokesman for the Palestinian political party Hamas and a relatively unknown member of Hamas...
You'd think that a Hamas spokes person would be well known. Further research reveals that the only other time this spokes person made the news was when he was caught entering Gaza with a bag of cash, he claimed was from fund raising in Arab countries. As near as I can figure out this person, he goes to Arab countries to raise cash for Hamas. While that might make him a technically a "spokes person", he isn't a government official, but Joe Fundraiser... or Muhammad Fundraiser and not an official spokes person representing the Hamas position. So he was one person stating his opinion, not stating the position of Hamas.
Here is another report on the same story from a different source, which quotes other Palestinians, besides this "spokes person for Hamas:
Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Salam Fayyad also criticized the killings. "As we have always rejected violence against our people, we reject it against others and we condemn it."
Some Palestinians in Awarta, who have clashed repeatedly with Itamar settlers over the years, agreed that the killing of children was reprehensible.
"If it had been an attack against a soldiers' outpost, it might have been understandable, but a person who would kill a baby is not a human being," said Awarta shopkeeper Zahid Quwark, 53.
In the past, Palestinian militants have defended such attacks against Jewish settlers in the West Bank, describing the settlers as combatants in the conflict rather than civilians.
Israeli soldiers appeared to be focusing their efforts on family members of the two Palestinians killed last March. At the time, Palestinians had complained that the unarmed youths were killed by settlers from Itamar, although Israeli soldiers said they shot the teens.
West Bank killings: Shock in Israel over brutal West Bank killings - Los Angeles Times
Are any of those opinions not referenced by your source equally telling?
BTW, I'm not defending this murder. I'm just pointing out the spin and selective facts which were used to deliberately portrays Palestinians as being as extreme as the most extreme viewpoint.
Other related facts to the case:
Itamar, with a population of 1,032 (2009), mostly ideologically motivated national-religious Israeli-Jewish families considered among the most fervent Israeli settlers in the West Bank, has had numerous confrontations with local Palestinians. Tensions between Itamar and the nearby Palestinian village of Awarta had been rising before the attack. Palestinians had accused settlers in the locality of cutting down hundreds of olive trees,[11] burning cars and shooting at Palestinian residents. Ten Palestinians and one settler were injured in a confrontation in the week before the attack, when Israeli soldiers were accused of opening fire to quell the clash, and two Palestinian teenagers had been shot to death a year previously as they collected garbage near Itamar.
Sounds like a nice place...
The alleged attackers were 18 and 19. (They confessed after being "interrogated", but lets assume they are guilty) They were not associated with any militant group. In fact they approached the PFLP asking for guns and were rejected according to Ynet News, (your referenced source), which means that probably came from their voluntary confession. Since they were acting on their own, that should make them common criminals, not militants, who take orders from some sort of military like hierarchical organization. Further investigation into these troubled young men indicates that they both knew many relatives and friends who were killed by Israelis including a possible murder by Israeli settlers from Itamar which was covered up by Israeli police. I'd chalk these kinds of atrocities or crimes as an inevitable consequence of years of oppression and injustice. Out of millions of oppressed Palestinians, who witness unspeakable acts of cruelty, some are going to commit a few atrocities of their own.
Just wait til this generation of Gaza children grow up... I predict more atrocities like this in the future as an inevitable consequence of treating millions of people extremely poorly.
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Your last name must be Simple - I did a quick search. Seems he has been a spokes Terrorist for years.
How stupid do you think posters on this Forum are?
Articles about Sami Abu Zuhri - CNN
Hamas committed to continue pumping Egyptian fuel to Gaza | Demotix.com
Hamas: We'll broaden attacks if IDF strike... JPost - Middle East
Hamas slams Fatah's statehood bid - Israel News, Ynetnews
wiki entry
Sami Abu Zuhri (سامي أبو زُهْري, Sámí Åbú Zʋẻrí) is a senior spokesman for the Palestinian political party Hamas. Zuhri, a relatively unknown member of Hamas, gained notoriety on May 19, 2006, when Palestinian security and customs officials discovered he had 640,000 euros on his person; another report claimed he held a larger sum of 900,000 euros, and confiscated it,
Sami Abu Zuhri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I suggest you take your complaint up with wikipedia. I must have typo'd my search as I didn't get those results previously.
Here is the official statement from Hamas regarding this murder:
Hamas official Ezzat Al-Rashak said that the movement is not responsible for the murder of the five family members from the Itamar settlement.
Al-Rashak claimed that harming children is not part of Hamas' policy, nor is it the policy of the opposition factions. He claimed that the possibility that the attack was carried out by settlers for criminal motives should not be ruled out.
Hamas denies responsibility for attack on Itamar family - Israel News, Ynetnews
Regardless, referencing the most extreme Palestinian viewpoint and then portraying all Palestinians as sharing that viewpoint is deliberately manipulative, especially when the majority of expressed Palestinian opinions were condemnations of the murder...
Sami Abu Zuhri (سامي أبو زُهْري, Sámí Åbú Zʋẻrí) is a senior spokesman for the Palestinian political party Hamas. Zuhri, a relatively unknown member of Hamas, gained notoriety on May 19, 2006, when Palestinian security and customs officials discovered he had 640,000 euros on his person; another report claimed he held a larger sum of 900,000 euros, and confiscated it,
Sami Abu Zuhri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I suggest you take your complaint up with wikipedia. I must have typo'd my search as I didn't get those results previously.
Here is the official statement from Hamas regarding this murder:
Hamas official Ezzat Al-Rashak said that the movement is not responsible for the murder of the five family members from the Itamar settlement.
Al-Rashak claimed that harming children is not part of Hamas' policy, nor is it the policy of the opposition factions. He claimed that the possibility that the attack was carried out by settlers for criminal motives should not be ruled out.
Hamas denies responsibility for attack on Itamar family - Israel News, Ynetnews
Regardless, referencing the most extreme Palestinian viewpoint and then portraying all Palestinians as sharing that viewpoint is deliberately manipulative, especially when the majority of expressed Palestinian opinions were condemnations of the murder...