Israel pounds Gaza, death toll well over 100 and climbing

[lone wolf]

Lone Wolf




I don't know where you get your information from but Israel suffered casualties by hamas and the Palistinians


It’s fact.

There are a lot of Israeli people killed in the rocket attacks and the suicide bombings.

You should read the Israel newspapers online instead of Al Jezera so you can add up the real casualties.

I was watching the Israeli defense minister being interviewed by CNN and he said that Palestinians and the hamas have broken their own cease-fire agreements and stopped the peace so many times.

They even pulled settlers out of certain lands but hamas is still firing rockets into Israel.

Since Palestinians don’t want to live in peace with the people of Israel then the JDF should forcibly remove them back to Syria.

Poor Israel!

Yes, it's a fact a few Israelis have suffered. Does that give Israel the right to murder on the ratio of ten to one or much greater? Why aren't they sending in their specialists to ferret out Hamas instead of terrorizing non-combatants? I don't feel sorry for Israel in the least ... nor do I feel any particular empathy for Hamas or militant Palestinians.

How can Palestinians live in peace with a people who actively discriminate? No Israeli is better than anyone else on this planet. Perhaps the Arab world is right in dispatching USJW into the Mediterranean

 

[Spade]

Perhaps a modern reworking of Martin Niemöller's poem might be:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Palistinians,
I remained silent;
I was not a Palistinian.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

 

[earth_as_one]

From the start of the truce until yesterday, not a single Israeli was killed by a rocket fired from Gaza. So the ratio was 277:0 Which is techically isn't a ratio.

I am curious how Liberalman came to the beliefs that Israel's attack on Gaza was a response to deaths by rockes fired by Hamas. Liberalman can you explain?

 

[darkbeaver]

You're just playing semantics with the word terror. If what you really mean is fear, then yes, you are correct. Terror is altogether different.

Example: in WW2 Germans ran from the advancing Russians and surrendered to the advancing Americans. Why? Were the Americans not making war on the Germans? Why would German soldiers flee Russians and surrender to Americans? Because the Russians were employing terror, the Americans were not, even though both were making war.

Whatever I'm doing my meaning is clear and the methods of warfare are clear.

pay attention now JTF; from Websters--------terror=1/ a state of intense fear.
Nobody can make war without terror.

 

[Risus]

Poor Israel!


How can Palestinians live in peace with a people who actively discriminate? No Israeli is better than anyone else on this planet. Perhaps the Arab world is right in dispatching USJW into the Mediterranean

Perhaps if the Palestinians didn't condone terrorist activities, and fire off rockets into their neighbour's country, there would be a chance for peace.
The palestinians do not want peace. Look at their history.

 

[lone wolf]

Perhaps if the Palestinians didn't condone terrorist activities, and fire off rockets into their neighbour's country, there would be a chance for peace.
The palestinians do not want peace. Look at their history.

Israel does not want a peace it can't control. Look at ALL of the history.

 

[Spade]

The Jews and Palistinians are brothers - linguistically, genetically, geographically, and as victims. Sort of like the myth of Cain and Abel; except today it's difficult to discern which is which.

 

[darkbeaver]

You're just playing semantics with the word terror. If what you really mean is fear, then yes, you are correct. Terror is altogether different.

Example: in WW2 Germans ran from the advancing Russians and surrendered to the advancing Americans. Why? Were the Americans not making war on the Germans? Why would German soldiers flee Russians and surrender to Americans? Because the Russians were employing terror, the Americans were not, even though both were making war.

Whatever I'm doing my meaning is clear and the methods of warfare are clear.

pay attention now JTF; from Websters--------terror=1/ a state of intense fear.
Nobody can make war without terror. Our pitifull minds can delude us into thinking that our acts of terror are not acts of terror but the honourable acts of war. For the normal mind this justification is a necessary adaptation, the enabling self-delusion that permits the acts of murder and forgives the act in advance, much like the function of blessing the murderers before they march off to torch the villages and bayonette the babies of the sub-human enemy. Of the two of us I'm not in the least confused or fooled by terror or terrorism and I suspect that you aren't either. As usual I can only guess at your motivation for assuming a position at variance with the truth. I suspect you're are an agent of disinformation. And what's more I offer your above submitted testimony as to the meaning of terrorism as that proof.:smile:

 

[darkbeaver]

The Jews and Palistinians are brothers - linguistically, genetically, geographically, and as victims. Sort of like the myth of Cain and Abel; except today it's difficult to discern which is which.

No they aren't.

 

[Spade]

Which of these do you disagree with? And support your disagreement with references.

 

[Just the Facts]

Whatever I'm doing my meaning is clear and the methods of warfare are clear.

Like I said, you're playing with semantics:


Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
1 : the unlawful use or threat of violence esp. against the state or the public as a politically motivated means of attack or coercion
2 : violent and intimidating gang activity

 

[earth_as_one]

OK, so Hamas takes over Gaza in a violent coup, and you tell me that is was actually a failed Fatah coup and that Hamas was duly elected.

Hamas fails in it's coup attempt in the west bank, and you tell me that Fatah actually took over in a coup from duly elected Hamas.

Israeli's build walls to seal themselves in to protect themselves from random terrorist attacks that they have been putting up with for decades, and you tell me Arabs are being imprisoned by these walls.

As for summary executions, I'm willing to bet more Palestinian Arabs are summarily executed by Palestinian jihadi's who accuse them of being collaborators or spies for Israel than by any Israeli action, official or otherwise.

You feed me all this doublespeak BS, then you wonder why I have a hard time supporting the Palestinian cause.

Israel pulled out of Gaza. They handed it to the Palestinians on a silver platter. In return, they got rocket fire.

Explain that, then we'll move on to the west bank.

If the news tells us that Hamas took Gaza by force, does that mean its true?

Here are some events you must have forgotten:

Hamas sweeps to election victory

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm# Scenes in Ramallah

Islamic militant group Hamas has won a surprise victory in Wednesday's Palestinian parliamentary elections. Preliminary results give Hamas 76 of the 132 seats in the chamber, with the ruling Fatah party trailing on 43.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hamas sweeps to election victory

Fatah never recognized the results and refused to hand over power that Hamas won in internationally recognized free and fair elections. That's what started the fighting between Hamas and Fatah.
Hamas accuses Abbas of launching coup. 17/12/2006. ABC News Online

Eventually Abbas and Fatah with US and Israeli support seized complete control of the West Bank in violation of Hamas's democratic mandate. Hamas successfully defended themselves from Fatah in Gaza where they had more support.

So how can Hamas been the instigators of a coup when they were democratically elected and Fatah who refused to recognize the election results, refused to hand over power and now maintains power by force over the wishes of a majority of Palestinians? I am well aware of what the news says and regarding this conflict, very little of what the western news tells is accurate or objective.

Do you believe the news told us the truth about Iraq's WMDs and links to al Qaeda? Or do you believe that what we were told about Iraq in 2002/2003 was mostly manipulative propaganda designed to make people fear and hate Iraqis and Saddam Hussein in support of an unprovoked war. Do you actually believe the same news sources are telling us the truth now about the Israel/Palestine conflict?

Regarding the wall:

If its true that Israel builds walls to seal themselves in as you believe, then explain why these Israeli constructed walls are built on Palestinan land? If two neighbors agree to build a fence, wouldn't they build the fence on the border? Following that ananlogy what Israel has done is the equivalent of one neighbor building a fence on their neighbor's land in order to restrict their access to their backyard and then built a pool in what used to be their neighbor's backyard.

Because of the wall, construction of Jewish only settlements and restictions imposed on Palestinians living in the West Bank, they have access to about 40% of the West Bank. Israelis illegally living in the West Bank have access to the other 60% and can travel to/from Israel proper without going through any barriers. The West Bank wall restricts Palestinian's access to water, health care, education, farmland...

Gaza is completely surrounded by their wall and Israel controls all legal trade. Effectively Gaza's wall has turned Gaza into a giant open air prison. But because of the violence there, Gazans have access to nearly 100% of Gaza.

Yes Israel pulled their illegal settlements out of Gaza. They had become undefendable from violent Palestinians demanding they leave. When the Israelis left, they razed most of the buildings. The illegal Jewish settlers living in Gaza wanted to raze the greenhouses too, but they were paid not to by a charitable foundation consisting mostly of American Jews interested in promoting peace. When Israel pulled out of Gaza, the IDF didn't coordinate it with the Gaza authorities and as a result about 10% were destroyed by the angry mob who got to them first. Since then, Israel hasn't allowed the greenhouse operators to freely export their produce. Israel would close Gaza's borders during harvest time "for security and technical reasons". But the reality is that Israel did not want Gazans to succeed and eventually put most of them out of business. After Hamas won the elections, Israel imposed an economic embargo on Gaza, pretty much putting the remainder of greenhouses out of business... Understandably, Gazans trying to run the greenhouses are angry.

 

[darkbeaver]

Which of these do you disagree with? And support your disagreement with references.

Shepardics are Palestinian, the rest are not. Use a search engine, you'll get to the genetics sone enough. My schedual is full I cannot help you this afternoon. Someday I'll want a large part of Northern Europe back, god gave it to me fifteen- hundred years ago.

 

[Just the Facts]

More doublespeak. Hamas won the Parliament. Abbas remained as president. As president he controlled security and "foreign policy". That is what the constitution said. Thank your hero Arafat for that.

Hamas did not like that arrangement. So they went ahead and changed things.

After the Hamas coup, Abbas offered to hold elections for both Parliament and the presidency. Hamas wasn't interested.

 

[darkbeaver]

Like I said, you're playing with semantics:


Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
1 : the unlawful use or threat of violence esp. against the state or the public as a politically motivated means of attack or coercion
2 : violent and intimidating gang activity

cite your source please, that seems like a very recent revision produced to fit the crimes and the times JTF.

 

[Just the Facts]

From the start of the truce until yesterday, not a single Israeli was killed by a rocket fired from Gaza. So the ratio was 277:0 Which is techically isn't a ratio.

Which makes persisting in firing them, knowing full well what the consequences will be, all the more arrogant and insane.

 

[Just the Facts]

If two neighbors agree to build a fence, wouldn't they build the fence on the border? Following that ananlogy what Israel has done is the equivalent of one neighbor building a fence on their neighbor's land in order to restrict their access to their backyard and then built a pool in what used to be their neighbor's backyard.

The wall was not built as an amicable agreement between neighbors. It was built because one neighbour could not refrain from killing the members of the household of the other neighbour.

Even still, the wall has been moved many times as a result of legitimate grievances by Arabs to whom it has caused hardship or infringement.

Yes Israel pulled their illegal settlements out of Gaza. They had become undefendable from violent Palestinians demanding they leave.

You can spin it any way you want, and even if what you say were true, it changes nothing. The bottom line is that the Gazans had a state dropped in their lap. They passed, and instead opted for a terrorist camp.

 

[Just the Facts]

cite your source please, that seems like a very recent revision produced to fit the crimes and the times JTF.

Seriously? You want me to cite a dictionary entry? :lol:

Now that's funny.

Dictionary.com

 

[darkbeaver]

Seriously? You want me to cite a dictionary entry? :lol:

Now that's funny.

Dictionary.com

It's funny what's funny to you. I'v heard various revisions of the word, most skewing the meaning like what you provided. I will only accept pre 911 examples.

 

[Just the Facts]

Fatah never recognized the results and refused to hand over power that Hamas won in internationally recognized free and fair elections. That's what started the fighting between Hamas and Fatah.

Doublespeak much?

Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia, another Fatah leader, resigned his post along with his cabinet early Thursday, as reports of Hamas's victory began to circulate. Although the cabinet would have been required to step aside even if Fatah had retained its majority, Qureia acknowledged in submitting his resignation that Hamas had earned the right to form the next cabinet.
"This is the choice of the people," Qureia, a member of the party's discredited old guard who did not run for reelection, told reporters here. "It should be respected."

Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast - washingtonpost.com