Israel pounds Gaza, death toll well over 100 and climbing

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
I am glad you have taken an interest in this conflict. But I hope you will keep an open mind and recognize this conflict has more than one viewpoint.
Don't hold your breath, this is his view.
"Hamas are the ones getting what they deserve. They are the murdering scum. "
Democratically elected in a fair election.
"Hey, name calling is what the Hamas does. Maybe you are one of their terrorist idiots?"
Two-faced fuktard.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Lone Wolf

Wouldn't the news get REALLY interesting if Israeli losses started to approach those they inflict?



They are, that’s why Israel is conducting this exercise.

Since hamas is using more powerful rockets to go deeper into Israel it’s only a matter of time that they force the Palestinians back in Syria where they came from.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
Israel has a right to defend themselves against attacks like any country. That means they can legally attack anyone who is associated organizations who use violence against Israel. But is killing 225 people including new police cadets at a graduation ceremony and children at a school across the street a proportionate response to rocket attacks which had not killed a single Israeli citizen in six months?

It would be nice if all militants had a glowing bright yellow target on them so they could be easily identified and targeted. Of course, even then, Israel would be accused of being a terrorist state conducting assainations.

EAO, you know as well as I do that Hamas has been spoiling for a fight since it's inception twenty or so years ago. This may be just a minor skirmish in the overall scheme of things. Hopefully this will all be over tomorrow. But then what? Hamas will go back to firing rockets....getting more sophisticated and accurate. Israel will continue issueing warnings and closing the border. The mad cycle will continue.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
It would be nice if all militants had a glowing bright yellow target on them so they could be easily identified and targeted. Of course, even then, Israel would be accused of being a terrorist state conducting assainations.

EAO, you know as well as I do that Hamas has been spoiling for a fight since it's inception twenty or so years ago. This may be just a minor skirmish in the overall scheme of things. Hopefully this will all be over tomorrow. But then what? Hamas will go back to firing rockets....getting more sophisticated and accurate. Israel will continue issueing warnings and closing the border. The mad cycle will continue.
Israel would be pretty much light up yellow. You don't seriously believe it will be over tomorrow do you? That isn't Israel's style, never has been never will be.
Can't you remember back just a few years ago. The whole world condemned the constant bombing of Lebanon. For a full week after calls for a ceasefire they dropped just cluster bombs .
I can certainly see why God is not finished with their punishment, once a prick always a prick.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Lone Wolf





They are, that’s why Israel is conducting this exercise.

Since hamas is using more powerful rockets to go deeper into Israel it’s only a matter of time that they force the Palestinians back in Syria where they came from.

You have quite the imagination there. Never ... and I mean NEVER have Hamas, Palestine or the entire Arab world inflicted the sort of casualties on Israel that Israel seems content to inflict on anyone who would dare not believe Izzy is the new master race. Maybe Hamas should invest in some smart technology and really get 'em wailing "poor me". Israel ... your terrorist roots are showing.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Lone Wolf

You have quite the imagination there. Never ... and I mean NEVER have Hamas, Palestine or the entire Arab world inflicted the sort of casualties on Israel


I don't know where you get your information from but Israel suffered casualties by hamas and the Palistinians


It’s fact.

There are a lot of Israeli people killed in the rocket attacks and the suicide bombings.

You should read the Israel newspapers online instead of Al Jezera so you can add up the real casualties.

I was watching the Israeli defense minister being interviewed by CNN and he said that Palestinians and the hamas have broken their own cease-fire agreements and stopped the peace so many times.

They even pulled settlers out of certain lands but hamas is still firing rockets into Israel.

Since Palestinians don’t want to live in peace with the people of Israel then the JDF should forcibly remove them back to Syria.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
What's ignored here is scale. David and Goliath comes to mind. When the fourth largest killing machine on the planet speaks of peace it means the peace of extermination, it means genocide and it means war without end. They will not stop untill every nation bows and grovels before them subserviant slaves of the new master race.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
David and Goliath? It would seem that Israel is the bigger and stronger in this instance. Isn't it more like medieval England with Israel being the land barons?
The US invasion of Haiti springs to mind if you are looking for comparisons.

Correct me if I am wrong here, it is the duty of every Canadian to fight for Canada. In the event of a invasion guerrilla tactics are more than alright and failure to fight against the invaders could be taken as a act of treason.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Dark Beaver

What's ignored here is scale. David and Goliath comes to mind. When the fourth largest killing machine on the planet speaks of peace it means the peace of extermination



I agree with you Palestinians and hamas is a killing machine and they always talk about extermination of the Jews of the face of the earth.

At least with David and Goliath time everyone identifies themselves and they fought away from the general population.

Gaza has a lot of terrorist groups that fire rockets at Israel on a regular intervals.

If the Palestine wanted peace then they would throw the terrorist out and complete the peace process.

Since they won’t then Israel has every right to do it for them.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
Israel would be pretty much light up yellow. You don't seriously believe it will be over tomorrow do you? That isn't Israel's style, never has been never will be.

Israel's style? You're cracking me up. Question: whose constitution calls for the destruction of the other, Hamas or Israel?

Israel warned the pants off Hamas that they would retaliate BIG TIME if the rocket firing didn't stop. I knew it would happen, EAO knew it would happen, you knew it would happen, Hamas knew it would happen, the whole world knew it would happen.

The rocket firing didn't stop. Israel followed through. No one is surprised. All Hamas had to do was stop attacking Israel. Hams couldn't do that. Hamas wouldn't do that. Hamas wants war with Israel. It's their raison d'etre.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Dark Beaver





I agree with you Palestinians and hamas is a killing machine and they always talk about extermination of the Jews of the face of the earth.

At least with David and Goliath time everyone identifies themselves and they fought away from the general population.

Gaza has a lot of terrorist groups that fire rockets at Israel on a regular intervals.

If the Palestine wanted peace then they would throw the terrorist out and complete the peace process.

Since they won’t then Israel has every right to do it for them.

Liberalman war then was the same as war now, all that has changed is the speed of the delivery of death. At no place or time have I identified the Palestinians as the agressors. What is a terrorist? One who delivers terror, and there is no further meaning possible. When you engage in warfare you use terror, there has never been any deviation from that state. It is not possible to make war without terror.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
It is not possible to make war without terror.

You're just playing semantics with the word terror. If what you really mean is fear, then yes, you are correct. Terror is altogether different.

Example: in WW2 Germans ran from the advancing Russians and surrendered to the advancing Americans. Why? Were the Americans not making war on the Germans? Why would German soldiers flee Russians and surrender to Americans? Because the Russians were employing terror, the Americans were not, even though both were making war.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
David and Goliath? It would seem that Israel is the bigger and stronger in this instance. Isn't it more like medieval England with Israel being the land barons?
The US invasion of Haiti springs to mind if you are looking for comparisons.

Correct me if I am wrong here, it is the duty of every Canadian to fight for Canada. In the event of a invasion guerrilla tactics are more than alright and failure to fight against the invaders could be taken as a act of treason.

Why the confusion with the obvious analogy of David and Goliath, the little and the big.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
If all Hamas had to do was stop attacking Israel, then explain the West Bank.

Abbas, the Palestinian in charge of the West Bank is a model of cooperation or should I say collaboration. Yet Israel has only accelerated its house demolitions, land grabs and settlement expansion in the West Bank since Abbas seized control in a US/Israeli backed coup. The residents of the West Bank live like prisoners behind walls. Israeli soldiers and settlers can commit serious crimes against them with impunity. Civilians are detained, tortured and summarily executed.

...By 2008, and always under the pretext of "security and self-defense," Israel has displaced 70% of the Palestinian people, now living as refugees and internally displaced persons; confiscated and/or de facto annexed some 60% of the occupied West Bank, including eastern Jerusalem, and established a system of institutionalized discrimination affecting Palestinians within Israel, in the OPT, and refugees worldwide...

Human Rights Review of Israel Must Scrutinize Racial Discrimination Against All Palestinians

On 4 December, immediately after the settlement in Hebron’s a-Ras neighborhood (“the House in Dispute”) was evicted, B'Tselem issued a public call to security forces to protect the Palestinian residents of the city, and Palestinians throughout the West Bank, from expected acts of revenge by settlers.

In the weeks that preceded the eviction, settlers attacked Palestinians and damaged Palestinian property daily in Hebron. Although these attacks were extensive and prolonged, Israel’s security forces failed to prevent them. In one of the incidents that B'Tselem documented, on 30 November, about 50 settlers entered a Palestinian neighborhood at 2:00 A.M., accompanied by an army jeep. The settlers threw stones that shattered windowpanes of houses and of some 25 cars, and punctured the tires of the cars. They then threw stones at houses in the neighborhood and shattered windowpanes.

Despite B'Tselem’s warning, and despite the high probability that attacks of this kind would occur, the security forces failed to properly protect the city’s Palestinian residents also after the eviction, when settlers invaded Palestinian neighborhoods in the city, torched houses and cars, threw stones, shattered windowpanes, and damaged solar-heated water tanks, satellite dishes, and water containers.

A particularly severe attack occurred in Hebron’s Wadi al-Hussein neighborhood, by the house of the al-Matariyeh and Abu Sa’ifan families. Jamal Abu-Sa'ifan, a participant in B'Tselem's camera distribution project, filmed the event:

B'Tselem - Settler violence - 10 Dec. '08: Hebron: Willful abandonment by security forces



People who suffer like this have a right to fight for freedom and justice. Jews who have suffered centuries of oppression and injustice should know this better than anyone.

I don't think rockets are the way to fight Israel. I think the residents of Bil'in have the right approach:

http://www.bilin-village.org/english/discover-bilin/
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48

Egypt may have ambulances at the Rafah closing, but Egyptians aren't allowing wounded Gazans to cross the border freely. They appear to be only accepting the most serious cases.

Palestinians cross breached border with Egypt
Sun 28 Dec 2008, 16:39 GMT

RAFAH, Egypt, Dec 28 (Reuters) - Dozens of Palestinians crossed into Egyptian territory from Gaza on Sunday as Egyptian riot police fired in the air to fend them off, witnesses said.

Reuters correspondent Yusri Mohamed said he had met several Palestinians on the Egyptian side of the border and they told him they had slipped across at holes in the border wall.

It was not immediately clear how the holes appeared in the wall but the exodus began within an hour of Israeli air raids aimed at tunnels along the Egyptian border.

Bursts of gunfire were audible by telephone from Rafah as the Egyptian police tried to frighten the Palestinians off. Gaza hospitals said they were treating 10 people wounded by Egyptian police shooting at Rafah.

Egypt has been cooperating with Israel for months in the blockade of Gaza, severely restricting the flow of goods and people across the Rafah crossing, Gaza's only access point which is not under direct Israeli control.

Egypt reopened the main crossing point on Sunday to let out some of the Palestinians injured in two days of Israeli attacks which have killed nearly 290 people.


News | Africa - Reuters.com

GAZA, Dec. 28 (Xinhua) -- Hamas Sunday called on Egypt to open its border with the Gaza Strip forever and for all residents, not only the wounded persons.


"We reject this odd stance: opening the crossing for the amputated bodies and keeping it closed before 1.5 million of human beings in Gaza," said Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum.

Israel has been launching airstrikes on the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip since Saturday noon, targeting most of Hamas-linked security institutions and police stations in the most intensive bombardment in years.

More than 280 Palestinians were killed and 900 wounded in the ongoing shelling which Israel said is targeting Hamas, the Islamic movement which seized control of Gaza last year.

At a press conference in Cairo, Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit accused Hamas of barring hundreds of wounded from heading to Egypt through Rafah crossing point.
But Barhoum rejected the accusation, saying Egypt only asked to send the most critical cases to receive medical care in its hospitals "and then it will return them back (to Gaza) in coffins."...

Hamas urges Egypt to open borders with Gaza forever for all residents_English_Xinhua

It would appear that only people too seriously injured to be moved qualify to cross the border to Egypt.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
If all Hamas had to do was stop attacking Israel, then explain the West Bank.

Abbas, the Palestinian in charge of the West Bank is a model of cooperation or should I say collaboration. Yet Israel has only accelerated its house demolitions, land grabs and settlement expansion in the West Bank since Abbas seized control in a US/Israeli backed coup. The residents of the West Bank live like prisoners behind walls. Israeli soldiers and settlers can commit serious crimes against them with impunity. Civilians are detained, tortured and summarily executed.

OK, so Hamas takes over Gaza in a violent coup, and you tell me that is was actually a failed Fatah coup and that Hamas was duly elected.

Hamas fails in it's coup attempt in the west bank, and you tell me that Fatah actually took over in a coup from duly elected Hamas.

Israeli's build walls to seal themselves in to protect themselves from random terrorist attacks that they have been putting up with for decades, and you tell me Arabs are being imprisoned by these walls.

As for summary executions, I'm willing to bet more Palestinian Arabs are summarily executed by Palestinian jihadi's who accuse them of being collaborators or spies for Israel than by any Israeli action, official or otherwise.

You feed me all this doublespeak BS, then you wonder why I have a hard time supporting the Palestinian cause.

Israel pulled out of Gaza. They handed it to the Palestinians on a silver platter. In return, they got rocket fire.

Explain that, then we'll move on to the west bank.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
It would appear that only people too seriously injured to be moved qualify to cross the border to Egypt.

More doublespeak. Nowhere in your articles is that evident, except in the hyperbolic quote from Hamas, who are calling on Egypt to open the border to everyone, not just the wounded.