Praxius: Are you old enough to remember the Manufacturers Sales Tax that the GST replaced? Only someone that does not know about the MST could possibly think that the GST is bad. OR a true socialist that thinks that private enterprise is bad.
If you've been following along you'd notice I mentioned very little towards the GST and the greater majority of my comments have been towards the HST.... as it goes for the Private sector and in regards to the subject of this thread, ie: low/mid income earners, I couldn't care less about the Private Sector.
The simple fact is that Canadians want free government services even though this is an oxymoron. Governments get money through taxation/fees.
Business never has and never will pay tax as such. Tax is an expense that is simply added into the retail price which we as consumers pay. The only difference is that when it is hidden in the price we don't know how much tax we pay. Even basic groceries have some PST built into the price because the store pays PST on their supplies and equipment. With the HST this will no longer be the case.
Many people, some of them even fairly intelligent have said that they would rather have all taxes built into the retail price because they do not want to know how much their government is ripping them off for. I like to know where my money goes.
As with almost all taxes those at the low end pay the least tax. Two reasons: first they have less disposable income and two, they get tax credits. They also receive the most in government services. Those farther up the income scale pay more because they have somewhat more disposable income and get few or no credits. Those at the top income carry the load for everyone else. They might not feel it as much but they pay far more in proportion to the services they receive.
And?
The private sector will probably save some extra money now, but as I said before, wait a couple of years and see the dramatic differences the average joe will see when they shop and you'll see that prices go down very little and most businesses will more then likely pocket whatever little profit they get out of this.
Perhaps the company will get more business and thus be more competitive, but as seen over the years, it rarely trickles down beyond the business in question. And while that company can be more competitive and perhaps more business coming their way, the playing field is still the exact same for every other company, thus the availability of business isn't that much greater then before because they still have to compete with the same businesses they've always been competing against who all have the same tax breaks as you, nothing really changes.... which is my point.
And considering the greater majority of citizens polled in BC and Ontario oppose the HST
Most in Ontario, B.C. against harmonized sales tax: poll
82% of BC residents and 74% of Ontarians oppose the tax.... so either I'm right or we're all stupid and you in the minority are somehow geniuses or the HST supporters have provided a very dismal argument to support the tax and should work a little harder in presenting their case.
Also in the above report, apparently the Cons and Libs support are balancing out to one another while the NDP are beginning to gain more support.
Call me and others like me stupid, ill-informed, or haters of private business all you want.... it looks like when it comes to support for the HST, I'm on the winning side.
I just find it hilarious people outside of my own province get up on their high horses to dictate to me the internal workings and the effects of the HST in my own province and that it somehow made our lives all that much better. If it really did, I would have noticed it and I would have openly agreed, as well as support the HST in this thread..... however that is not the case and talking to most people on the street here, as mentioned before, I haven't met anybody who has had anything nice to say about it.
Some here claiming I'm talking about things that haven't happened yet is kind of ridiculous since they have happened here where I live and we've had plenty of time to experience the effects of this tax.
Here's an interesting read up on the HST in NS:
Nova Scotia premier sends HST warning to B.C.
CTV British Columbia - Nova Scotia premier sends HST warning to B.C. - CTV News
As Canada's rookie premier, Nova Scotia's Darrell Dexter is reluctant to give advice to his counterparts in other provinces.
But he has one suggestion for premiers who are contemplating harmonizing their sales taxes with the federal GST, or who have already done so.
"I think it's really important that citizens of provinces have a clear indication of just what that tax is going to look like, what goods and services are going to be affected," Dexter said in an interview.
"I don't think there's anything that inspires people to go to their local Tim Hortons and talk like a tax increase."
Dexter should know. Although he was elected as an opposition legislature member one year after Nova Scotia harmonized its sales tax in 1997, he has seen the HST stir up voter anger in provincial politics for more than a decade.
The Liberal government that introduced the tax in Nova Scotia was, by 1999, relegated to opposition with just 11 of the 52 legislature seats, partly due to consumer anger over the higher cost of gasoline, home heating fuel, electricity and other goods.
The sales tax on such items had more than doubled, to 15 per cent from seven per cent, because the harmonized tax applied to everything that had previously been covered by the GST, including many items which had been exempt from the provincial sales tax.
The Progressive Conservative government reduced the HST on home energy bills in 2006 and raised it in 2008. This spring, the New Democrats were elected for the first time in Nova Scotia history, with a promise to cut the tax on home energy one of their main campaign platforms.
It is the impact on daily consumer items that has given some premiers pause.
"We have always believed (the HST) is a shift from business taxes to consumers," said Manitoba Premier Gary Doer, who says he is willing to consider harmonization if the impact on consumers can be mitigated. Saskatchewan and Prince Edward Island, the other holdout provinces, have expressed similar concerns.......
..... The federation is also calling on governments to release estimates on how much more money consumers in Ontario and British Columbia will pay. When Nova Scotia harmonized its taxes, a provincial study estimated consumers would pay an extra $84 million a year, collectively......
...... Ontario has given reporters a partial list of goods that will cost more under the HST. Heating fuel, electricity, gasoline, tobacco, taxi fares, lawyers' fees, haircuts and other items will be taxed at 13 per cent instead of five. But the opposition has been pulling out other examples, such as funerals and maintenance work on condominiums, almost daily.......
..... In British Columbia, the list of items that will be taxed at 12 per cent instead of five includes electricity, home heating, restaurant meals and many more......
......The HST also necessitates a little-known, separate tax on cars and trucks that are sold privately. Vehicles sold by private owners are currently subject to provincial sales taxes but not the GST. So under the normal rules of harmonization, private vehicles would not be taxed at all.
Provinces, however, have filled that particular void with a special all-provincial levy. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Newfoundland quietly brought in private vehicle taxes at 15 per cent when they harmonized.......
Yeah indeed... I apparently know nothing about what I am talking about. :roll: The original point of this debate was the impact on low/mid income earners and the above clearly explains what they will be facing and in the grand scheme of things, no the HST does not benefit this group.
Added:
And while a couple here may think reducing the taxes on businesses is a great old idea and anybody who doesn't think so are against private business, perhaps they should be reminded that while your business may get some tax breaks and save some money, none of it matters if the customers are taxed up the wazoo and end up being more stringent on spending their money for your products since they now have to spend more on everything else and have less in their pockets to splurge.
