Fear Inc.

CDNBear

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I gave you a thumbs up, no it wasn't a mistake. You got it for actually taking a kick at the can for a change.

Now that you've posted that. I will be referencing it in the future, when you dismiss plausible explanations for your anecdotal claims against Israel.

I hope you don't mind me using your own standards and words against you.
 

Goober

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Canada's record regarding South African Apartheid:
AfricaFiles | Review: A class act - Canada's anti-apartheid record

Brian Mulroney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mulroney's government opposed the apartheid regime in South Africa. Mulroney met with many opposition leaders throughout his ministry. His position put him at odds with the American and British governments, but also won him respect elsewhere. Also, external affairs minister Joe Clark was the first foreign affairs minister to land in previously isolated Ethiopia to lead the Western response to the 1984–1985 famine in Ethiopia; Clark landed in Addis Ababa so quickly he had not even seen the initial CBC report that had created the initial and strong public reaction. Canada's response was overwhelming and led the US and Britain to follow suit almost immediately — an unprecedented situation in foreign affairs at that time, since Ethiopia had a Marxist regime and had previously been isolated by Western governments.

The government took a strong stand against the U.S. intervention in Nicaragua under Reagan, and accepted refugees from El Salvador, Guatemala, and other countries with regimes supported directly by the Reagan administration.

Near the end of his first term, Mulroney gave a formal apology and a $300 million compensation package to the families of the 22,000 Japanese Canadians who had been divested of their property and interned during World War II.
 

CDNBear

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Another site that will be poo pooed by the usual suspects is LiveLeak.com - Redefining the Media because it also gives a list of islamic terror attacks in the world along with wikipedia and those lists mpretty much match to different degrees the list on religion of peace...;-)
Not true.

You should note that EAO didn't poo poo the list at wikiality. He ignored it, because he would either have acknowledge the fallibility of wikiality, or admit there's a real threat.
 

DaSleeper

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Not true.

You should note that EAO didn't poo poo the list at wikiality. He ignored it, because he would either have acknowledge the fallibility of wikiality, or admit there's a real threat.

Their list is not quite up to date but pretty good and confirms a lot of what is wrtten on other sites
http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/s/s/14/media14/2011/Sep/22/LiveLeak-dot-com-fd9d463a658e-list_of_terrorist_attacks.png?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad69e4e4cd9d35d52&ec_rate=300
 
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Colpy

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Canada's record regarding South African Apartheid:
AfricaFiles | Review: A class act - Canada's anti-apartheid record

Taking the Colpy Challenge:

TheReligionOfPeace.com claims that since 9/11, Muslims extremists have committed 17,000+ terrorist attacks.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

The author of this website seems to be the authoritative source for these numbers. He gives minimal details and a lot of spin. He provides no references or way to verify his claims that these attacks, they were religiously motivated and not robberies, crimes of passion, revenge, war, legitimately resisting a foreign occupation.. . We have to take the author's word that these attacks occurred and the people responsible were motivated by Islamic beliefs.

2011.10.08 Iraq Kirkuk 1 1 Muslim gunmen shoot an elderly Christian and a woman.robbery?

2011.10.05 Thailand Narathiwat 1 5 A Buddhist woman is shot to death in her own house by Muslim militants.We have home invasions here in Toronto too. Do they also count as Muslim terrorist attacks?

2011.10.03 Iraq Anbar 6 13 At least six people are killed in a bank siege by a suicide squad from the 'Islamic State of Iraq'.Sounds like a bank robbery gone wrong

2011.10.03 Nigeria Maiduguri 2 0 A tea seller and customer are shot at point blank range by local Islamists. Another robbery?

2011.10.02 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 A pharmacist is murdered in his store by Boko Haram Islamists. another robbery?

2011.10.01 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Terrorists shoot a truck driver to death near a tea shop. another robbery?

2011.10.01 Iraq Kirkuk 1 0 A 60-year-old Christian is shot to death by Muslim assassins. Besides the victims religion, what other other indication supports the author's claim this was religiously motivated?

2011.10.01 Iraq Buhriz 3 5 Two family members are among three killed during an al-Qaeda home invasion. Another home invasion, which was religiously motivated and not a robbery?

2011.09.28 India Batmaloo 1 0 An Islamist shoots a police officer to death in cold blood. Criminals shoot police officers here in Canada too. Can we also classify them as Muslim terrorism if the attacker is Muslim?

2011.09.28 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 48-year-old trader is shot to death at a market by Muslim 'insurgents'. Someone murdered in a market. Did they capture the attackers. How do they know the insurgents were motivated by religion and not common thieves trying to rob a merchant?

2011.09.26 Iraq Kirkuk 3 1 Holy Warriors take down three civilians traveling in a car. I heard the roads are dangerous in Iraq. Is it possible that this was highway robbery? Maybe they didn't pay protection money and bribe local officials.

2011.09.26 Iraq Diwaniya 1 1 An imam nearly loses his life to Religion of Peace rivals, who do manage to kill his companion. this is a good one, even when both the victim and the perpetrator of a violent attack are both Muslims, its still Islamic terrorism???

2011.09.22 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 'Insurgents' shoot a man twice in the head and then set his body on fire. Were the "insurgents" even Muslim?

2011.09.08 Somalia Coast 1 2 Muslim 'pirates' shoot an unarmed French sailor on his own yacht. Apparently religion and not greed was the primary motivation???

2011.09.06 Afghanistan Kabul 1 0 The Taliban are suspected of killing a U.S. citizen. Apparently suspecting the Taliban were responsible is enough to confirm this as an act of Islamic terrorism


That's enough of my time wasted on this unverifiable list, much of which seems to be regular murders and robberies. BTW, I'm not saying that every violent act in the author's list weren't motivated by religious intolerance. Some obviously were. But given the lack of references and supporting information,....

If you want to see what a real verifiable body count looks like, I suggest you visit this site, where you can actually verify the source(s).
Iraq Body Count

If the author of thereligionofpeace.com was able to determine all these crimes were religiously motivated, then he should be a police detective. Our police often take months or even years to determine what exactly happened during a crime and who was responsible. This guy solves dozens of crimes from around the world from the comfort of his American home every day.

Also, I found this:

17,000 “Islamic terrorist” attacks exist in fevered Islamophobic brains

by Sheila Musaji


Robert Spencer objects to an MSNBC News Report by Michael Isikoff which discussed an increase in right-wing attacks over the past several years. Spencer claims In this one, Isikoff claims that there has been a “surge” of “right wing attacks” in the last couple of years—since Obama has been president (racism implication noted). This is sheer Leftist fantasy; meanwhile, Isikoff and NBC completely ignore the very real and readily documented surge in jihad plots in the U.S. over the last two years.

Of course, any recognition that we face a serious problem from EXTREMISTS no matter what their ideological or religious underpinnings is an argument that Spencer must attempt to refute because it gets in the way of his paranoid delusion that all or most terrorists are Muslims.

In a number of recent articles we can clearly see Spencer (and the rest of his Islamophobic cohorts who endlessly repeat each others anti-Muslim memes) newest meme. Spencer makes the claim (as have others) that there have been 17,000+ Islamic jihad terror attacks since 9/11. (He provides a link to a Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time). Spencer then says: Two non-Muslim terrorists: Tim McVeigh and, sixteen years later, Anders Breivik. And Scott Shane suggests that the “focus of counterterrorism efforts” should be shifted from Islamic jihadists to “the subculture of anti-Muslim bloggers and right-wing activists.”

Spencer also posted what he calls a “demonization roundup” in which he once again brings up this fake number of 17,000 Muslim terrorist attacks, but this time has upped his non-Muslim number to 4 - That’s four white male terrorists, versus 17,000+ jihad terror attacks since 9/11 committed by Muslim males (many of whom were white, by the way) and a handful of females. To the LA Times, the existence of those four is sufficient to refute the commonsensical call for the TSA to address the actual source of its troubles and reason for its existence.

Lies upon lies. No matter how you define terrorism - Breivik and McVeigh are certainly not the only non-Muslim terrorists. If this is the extent of Spencer’s research abilities, then any claims he makes to being a serious scholar of anything are pretty much undermined.

Spencer could go to legitimate sources to obtain factual information from which to make an informed decision about extremist and terrorist threats.

As Stephen Walt notes ... according to the EU’s 2010 Terrorism Situation and Trend Report, the total number of terrorist incidents in Europe declined in 2009. Even more important, the overwhelming majority of these incidents had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. The report is produced by Europol, which is the criminal intelligence agency of the European Union. In 2009, there were fewer than 300 terrorist incidents in Europe, a 33 percent decline from the previous year. The vast majority of these incidents (237 out of 294) were conducted by indigenous European separatist groups, with another forty or so attributed to leftists and/or anarchists. According to the report, a grand total of one (1) attack was conducted by Islamists. Put differently, Islamist groups were responsible for a whopping 0.34 percent of all terrorist incidents in Europe in 2009. In addition, the report notes, “the number of arrests relating to Islamist terrorism (110) decreased by 41 percent compared to 2008, which continues the trend of a steady decrease since 2006.”

Spencer could go to FBI — Homepage which is the site of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, you can access a great deal of information about terrorism in the U.S. You can check out the FBI’s most wanted domestic terrorists. There are 7 listed right now, and none seem to be Muslims. You can check out their Domestic Terrorism In the Post-9/11 Era report.

Spencer could check out numerous existing reports and surveys about terrorism, radicalization, and strategies to counter these that have been produced by respected governmental and academic organizations that clearly paint a very different picture of the facts.

Spencer could check out the ADL or SPLC data bases on terrorism and extremism.

Spencer could check out our TAM collection of information on the topic titled Claim that all terrorists are Muslims ignores history.

Spencer could - but facts get in the way of propaganda. Robert Spencer cites a rabidly anti-Muslim site called the Religion of Peace for his number of 17,000 terrorist attacks worldwide since 9/11. That would be somewhat like citing a KKK or White Supremacist site for their information about Jews or African-Americans. This site lists acts commited around the world - some in wars, some having nothing to do with Islam, but to do with nationalist or political struggles, some in civil wars. No links are given. No sources for any of this just a list of supposed attacks carried out by “Islamic terrorists”. All of my suggestions for Spencer to check out contain lots of links and sources.

Spencer is entering this most recent meme into the anti-Muslim blogsphere, and it will be repeated by all the other Islamophobes, and they will quote each other as “experts” who agree with this number. And, voila, another lie will become just one more “fact” that everyone “knows” about Islam and Muslims.

The Islamophobes regularly make such statements about the only danger being “Islamic terrorists” and then when faced with any evidence to counter their claims respond with the same tired arguments over and over - McVeigh is the exception that proves the rule, these Islamic supremacists will make the most out of this one Huttaree case, of course there is no moral equivalence as their terrorism is more dangerous, etc.

The truth is that the list of non-Muslim individuals and groups involved in extremist or terrorist acts is extensive. There are hundreds of exceptions that prove the rule. We know that Europol says that most terrorism in Europe is carried out by non-Muslims. The same is true in the United States. Attempting to focus only on one possible source of terrorism and excluding the others shows nothing except Islamophobic bigotry, and it makes none of us safer.




The American Muslim (TAM)

Well, at least you tried.

And I will grant you that there may be a case or two on the Religion of Peace website that is NOT murder connected to Islamism.......but saying that Islamist attacks on an elderly Christian or a Buddhist "might" be the result of robbery or other simple criminality hardly discredits the site.....and reveals a disturbing tendency to ignore what happens to religious minorities in Islamic nations. Christians are severely persecuted in Pakistan, are murdered en masse in Iraq, have undergone increasing attacks in Egypt, and have come under attack in Indonesia..........thanks to the "Religion of Peace"

Also, you have failed to acknowledge the rift between Sunni and Shi'ite, or Sunni and any other sect in your attempt to disallow Islamist on Muslim violence........the "Religion of Peace" loonies manage to kill many more of their own than any other religion......

And you have not dealt with the fact that I moved off the Religion of Peace website in response to your protests, as I realize that the focus of that site might discredit it in your eyes.....although you have failed to discredit it in fact.

Now explain to me why 74% of the 100 most vicious terrorist attacks listed on Wikileaks are the result of Islamic terror attacks. Is Wikipedia "Islamophobic"?????

If you want to see what a real verifiable body count looks like, I suggest you visit this site, where you can actually verify the source(s).
Iraq Body Count

Absolutely! Thanks for that......it helps prove my point. Muslim killing Muslim, often Islamist killing Muslim, rarely the USA killing Muslim.........

Much better than OB's claims of 1.5 million dead.............this one actually makes sense.
 

earth_as_one

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Do you honestly believe that Somali pirate attacks are religiously motivated? I'd like to see references in Qur'an which sanction piracy.

A list of violent attacks against civilians based purely on numbers of casualties that didn't filter out governments, would probably put the US, Israel and their allies near the top. The civilian victims would be primarily Muslims. So its not really a surprise that most of the people trying to kill us are Muslim. If we were killing Buddhists, then most of the terrorists would be Buddhists and "thereligionofpeace.com" website would be demonizing Buddhists.

Since the list of terrorist attacks don't show the state sponsored attacks which preceded most of these attacks, they could be considered selective fact propaganda.

It should not be a surprise that when the US invaded Iraq to seize control of Iraq's oil wealth, many Iraqis who are barely able to feed their family might fight back against the foreign invaders stealing their oil. Since they can't defeat the foreigners by conventional means they resort to asymmetrical warfare (terrorism). Wikipedia and other sources only list their "terrorist" attacks. They do not list the military attacks which killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Most of these attacks are really just the victims of our aggression fighting back against foreigner invaders and collaborators.

The people who lead the insurgencies and are responsible for most "terrorist" attacks are far likely more motivated by power and wealth, than by religion. But since they are mostly Muslim, our propaganda tries to convince us their attacks have nothing to do with us attacking them, but are the acts of crazy religious zealots. The leaders of these insurgent factions have to motivate their cannon fodder. Its pretty hard to convince the masses to go on a suicide mission for wealth, so they use religion and promise rewards in the afterlife, just like US and western leaders used WMDs and 9/11 to motivate their manipulated masses. Dig a little deeper and you'll find that many of the leaders of so called "Muslim terrorists" are more interested in seizing power and wealth, than a martyr's death.

Islam has been around for a dozen centuries. "Islamic Terrorism" is a recent phenomenon, which started around the same time Western powers began dominating Muslim areas. Maybe we stop killing them and stealing their wealth. If we treated them with dignity and respect, they might stop trying to kill us.

Islamaphobic hate sites like ReligionOfPeace and Jihad watch promote intolerance, fear and hate. People who believe that crap, are far more tolerant of our leaders starting unprovoked wars against them. If the US invaded Iceland and killed 10% of their popiulation to steal their wealth, far more Americans would stand against their government. But since these websites have primed us to fear and hate Muslims, we really don't care that the war was unprovoked and unjustified, allowing our war criminals to commit their crimes with impunity.

Its about time we started holding our leaders accountable for their actions. Even if you believe that our leaders legitimately believed Iraq was a threat and made a mistake, screw ups on that scale, which resulted in so much death and destruction should also have consequences. Personally I'm certain the US knew Iraq wasn't a WMD threat or had any involvement in 9/11. That's just what they told us, so we would support their plans to seize control of Iraq's oil wealth. They knew that if we hated and feared Muslims enough, we wouldn't care how many of them we killed as a result of an "intelligence error". So far they were right.
 
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Goober

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Do you honestly believe that Somali pirate attacks are religiously motivated? I'd like to see references in Qur'an which sanction piracy.
But they only exist due to payoffs to Al Shabab
As to why one group attacks another, reasons vary. Why did they fly planes into the WTC? Couldn't catch a bus? You know as well as I.
 

Goober

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I don't know about your leader, but our leader refused to support the US in Iraq for this very reason.

And US Voters booted the Repubs - Guess he missed that. I am sure it was on the news, but you know MSM and "Their Agenda" controlled by "you know who"?
 

DaSleeper

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And US Voters booted the Repubs - Guess he missed that. I am sure it was on the news, but you know MSM and "Their Agenda" controlled by "you know who"?

That was just another "Look over there" post when he couldn't refute Colpy's facts
 

earth_as_one

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And US Voters booted the Repubs - Guess he missed that. I am sure it was on the news, but you know MSM and "Their Agenda" controlled by "you know who"?

George W. Bush was re-elected in 2004 a year and a half after he attacked Iraq. It was obvious before the war that the justification were bogus and as time went by, the falseness of the justifications only became more obvious. Some people still believe that the US found WMD stockpiles and links to 9/11 today.

Since the main justifications for starting this war have been refuted, that leaves only two possibilities.

1) They screwed up, which means they should be held accountable.
2) The justifications were deliberate deceptions, which means they should be held accountable

Since the hundreds of thousands of civilians that died as a result are Muslims rather than regular people, no one is being held accountable for needlessly killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.... I am aware that most people who fear and hate Muslims and don't consider Muslim lives as meaningful don't see it that way. However 1.4 billion Muslims and most of the rest of the world perceive this as US indifference to either a major screw up or deliberate war crime.

As far as Wikipedia entries regarding terrorist attacks is concerned, the term "terrorism" is a propaganda term. When innocent people die violently, it doesn't matter much to their friends and families that the attack was classified as terrorism and made it into wikipedia or collateral damage from an unprovoked war and therefore didn't make it into wikipedia. These people will be equally pissed either way and demand justice.

Victims of the US led unprovoked attack against Iraq have just as much right to justice as the victims of 9/11.


Except they are Muslims, so who gives a crap if they are pissed. If they complain, or resist, we can just kill more of them.... until they stop complaining or resisting.
 

CDNBear

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It was obvious before the war that the justification were bogus and as time went by, the falseness of the justifications only became more obvious.
Yep, as obvious as the facts you ignore, because they would force you to admit error.

Since the main justifications for starting this war have been refuted, that leaves only two possibilities.

1) They screwed up, which means they should be held accountable.
The reps were voted out.

2) The justifications were deliberate deceptions, which means they should be held accountable
Good idea. How will you be taking that thought to Germany.

I mean that is where the intel came from and all.

Since the hundreds of thousands of civilians that died as a result are Muslims rather than regular people, no one is being held accountable for needlessly killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.... I am aware that most people who fear and hate Muslims and don't consider Muslim lives as meaningful don't see it that way. However 1.4 billion Muslims and most of the rest of the world perceive this as US indifference to either a major screw up or deliberate war crime.
Do you really think Germany wanted all those Muslims dead?

As far as Wikipedia entries regarding terrorist attacks is concerned, the term "terrorism" is a propaganda term. When innocent people die violently, it doesn't matter much to their friends and families that the attack was classified as terrorism and made it into wikipedia or collateral damage from an unprovoked war and therefore didn't make it into wikipedia. These people will be equally pissed either way and demand justice.
So you admit wikiality is a subjective source?
Except they are Muslims, so who gives a crap if they are pissed. If they complain, or resist, we can just kill more of them.... until they stop complaining or resisting.
What an ignorant comment. How can you look yourself in the mirror and have thoughts like that?
 

Goober

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George W. Bush was re-elected in 2004 a year and a half after he attacked Iraq. It was obvious before the war that the justification were bogus and as time went by, the falseness of the justifications only became more obvious. Some people still believe that the US found WMD stockpiles and links to 9/11 today.

Since the main justifications for starting this war have been refuted, that leaves only two possibilities.

1) They screwed up, which means they should be held accountable.
2) The justifications were deliberate deceptions, which means they should be held accountable

No - Much info did not come out untill later - You know that as well as I - You would believe anyting Anti US - Others in the US and elsewhere waited for more proof -



:

I have noted your biased conclusions time and again. For one who claims to live and breathe Human Rights and a chicken in every pot - Could you explain your comment on dropping captured Taliban in Canada's Far North - Provided with a few utensils - and tell them to get on with it.

Can ya splain that one for us (labeled by yourself) so called Right Wing nutbars, like myself as you have described me, as a person who despises the Muslim faith, splain that to me as i can be kinda slow ya know.
 

Goober

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Not Germany, they had all the intel.

They handed it over to the US, who ran with it. As Germany is an ally. There was no need to fact check.

Why would they lie?

Saddam's inner circle believed they still had WMD - why - because Iran just did not care much for Saddam. You know how it is - Invade - Kill a million or so - use chemical weapons on Kurds and Iranian Soldiers - Na now why would he still have them. Perhaps to instill FEAR. Yeah FEAR -
By Jove I think I got it Watson.
 

earth_as_one

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Victims of the US led unprovoked attack against Iraq have just as much right to justice as the victims of 9/11.
 

CDNBear

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Victims of the US led unprovoked attack against Iraq have just as much right to justice as the victims of 9/11.
I agree.

When are you going to start calling out Germany? Or doesn't that suit your agenda?

I mean you've ignored every single post of mine that has mentioned the FACT that the intel came from GERMANY!