Evolution classes optional under proposed Alberta law

[Tonington]

How has the pilot project made clear that it is not the goal of a public school to teach students how to live together? Different methods of teaching that achieve the same goals don't prove the other wrong, unless that goal also claims to be the only method for achieving this. That is not so in this case.

 

[gerryh]

CTV.ca | Alberta teachers slam planned human rights changes

"The Alberta Teachers Association argues that the "parents' rights clause" runs contrary to one of the goals of public education: teaching students how to live together in a society where different people hold different beliefs. "Even if one can opt out of a classroom, opting out of society is not really an option and certainly not a right," the group says in a statement on their website."


The Grassy Lake, Burdett and Redcliff Schools pilot project has proven the teachers are wrong. The pilot projects have helped both students and parents of students to learn how to live together. They either don't know what they are talking about or they have a hiiden agenda.


Besides, who says one can't opt out of society? Gerry did it.












Just kidding Gerry!

More proof that teachers aren't as smart as they think they are....... The Mennonite community, to name just one, has done a very good job of "opting out" of society.

 

[darkbeaver]

The Mennonites have a lot to teach us, like all communist organizations.

 

[L Gilbert]

lol Yeah, USSR taught us a lot, China's teaching us a lot.
Anyway, all I see in this issue is that the gov't of AB is decreasing the integrity of their education system. It's a joke, they are a joke, and they will be laughed at.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

lol Yeah, USSR taught us a lot, China's teaching us a lot.
Anyway, all I see in this issue is that the gov't of AB is decreasing the integrity of their education system. It's a joke, they are a joke, and they will be laughed at.

Gilbert, I think they are just pandering for votes. Religious right is an important constituency for conservatives. Even at the federal level, Harper has to pander to them from time to time (although he tries hard not to, he gets their vote by minimal pandering). In Alberta, where it is much stronger, I assume any conservative government must pander to them, if they are going to remain in power.

 

[captain morgan]

You might be onto something there SJP. Jean Chretien is doing alot of work for a Calgary law firm these days and as we all know, he is full-fledged Catholic.

I'm thinking that AB's move on this issue is to aggressively reach out to the Quebec and Ontario liberals that still pine for the good ole days of Jean.

Am I close?

 

[gerryh]

You might be onto something there SJP. Jean Chretien is doing alot of work for a Calgary law firm these days and as we all know, he is full-fledged Catholic.

I'm thinking that AB's move on this issue is to aggressively reach out to the Quebec and Ontario liberals that still pine for the good ole days of Jean.

Am I close?

You might have something IF the Catholic Church believed the creation story word for word....one problem with that though....The Catholic Church does not discount evolution and feels that the bible does not preclude evolution...in otherwords, Catholic parents would NOT be pulling their kids out of a class that taught evolution.

 

[captain morgan]

SJP,

Your last post about electoral pandering really got me thinking about the differing populations of religious folk throughout Canada. I found this info from StatsCan:

Population by religion, by province and territory (2001 Census)

It seems that your home province has the highest number of fundamentalist Christians based on population as well as % of population.

Interesting in that there is a distinct opportunity (assuming that the vote pandering experience in AB is successful) that we may see the Ontario gvt ape these same policies.... Hope that you're looking forward to it.

 

[captain morgan]

You might have something IF the Catholic Church believed the creation story word for word....one problem with that though....The Catholic Church does not discount evolution and feels that the bible does not preclude evolution...in otherwords, Catholic parents would NOT be pulling their kids out of a class that taught evolution.

Gerryh,

I am of the same mind as yourself on this issue.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It seems that your home province has the highest number of fundamentalist Christians based on population as well as % of population.

Fundamentalist Christian isn't one of the row headings in that table. What are you taking as being fundamentalists?

 

[Cannuck]

How has the pilot project made clear that it is not the goal of a public school to teach students how to live together?

It hasn't. The pilot project has showed that flexibility allows for people to live together. People are living together and opting INTO society because of this program.

 

[captain morgan]

Fundamentalist Christian isn't one of the row headings in that table. What are you taking as being fundamentalists?

I am simply employing the same broad generalization used by everyone else in this debate.

 

[gerryh]

I am simply employing the same broad generalization used by everyone else in this debate.

Since youare of the same mind as the Catholic Church when it comes to evolution..I assume you removed the Catholic population of Alberta from your "Christian fundamentalist" percentages.

 

[captain morgan]

Quoting SirJosephPorter
In science, it refers to a set of scientific postulates which make predictions which can be tested experimentally, thereby giving evidence in support of the theory or disproving the theory.

Replicate macro-evolution. - Captain Morgan


Captain, you know macroevolution is very slow and cannot be observed in a lifetime. Macroevolution is a concept accepted by most biologists, it is only Creationists that have a problem with it (and not out of any scientific reasons, but because it goes against their interpretation of the Bible).


Employing your logic, the 'Theory of Creationism' has not be entirely disproven and has stood up to 'peer review' (peers being theologians)for thousands of years, can we assume that it is (essentially) fact?

Indeed we can captain. Creationism (it cannot be called a theory, it is a fact) is fact as far as religious right is concerned. It however, can never be a scientific theory. So I wouldn’t’ dignify it by calling it a theory, it is superstition (or a religious fact, if you will), rather than a theory.

'Til then, the theory of evolution a work-in-progress.

Indeed it is. Every theory is a work in progress. Every theory is continuously tested against experimental results, modified when it can, rejected when it must be. All of science is work in progress.

I just came across your post SJP. Please excuse the delay in my response.

That said, I see an interesting conflict in the application of scientific principles expressed by your opinion.

On one hand, you state that it is permissible to accept macro-evolution despite its unrepeatability (testing), yet dismiss any theological explanation for the same reasons. Similarily, wher you state that it is the Creationists that have a problem with evolution... From the perspective of the creationists, it is the scientific that has the problem with creationism.

With the above comment in mind, exactly why are you unwilling to consider the Theory of Creationism?

 

[captain morgan]

Since youare of the same mind as the Catholic Church when it comes to evolution..I assume you removed the Catholic population of Alberta from your "Christian fundamentalist" percentages.

I only sought info as it related to Ontario. I can happily post the link for all of the Western provinces if you like.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I am simply employing the same broad generalization used by everyone else in this debate.

And what is that, exactly? Those religious categories on the census form are self-identified. Fundamentalist Christianity is generally Protestant, what fraction of those did you include? The Christian Orthodox category might include the Eastern Rite churches that actually put the word "Orthodox" in their names, like Greek Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, and so on, and they're not fundamentalist in the usual sense. And there's no telling what a category like Christian not specified elsewhere might mean. You're plucking information out of the table that's not there.

 

[Cliffy]

Why does this debate always have to be between two opposite extremes. Usually, the truth lies between two extremes. I think, in the end, that is where we might find the truth in this debate. As far as I'm concerned both theories are out dated. There is far more to our reality than meets the eye.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

As far as I'm concerned both theories are out dated.

By "both theories" do you mean creationism and evolution? Creationism isn't out dated, it's simply wrong. Evolution isn't out dated either, according to all the evidence we have it appears to be correct, and even if it's not, it's certainly the best explanation we've come with so far to explain the complexity and diversity of life.

 

[Cliffy]

Well, most creation theories are based on ancient writings. Nobody has come up with an updated version is a few millennium. Although I think evolution, as it is touted today, is far closer to reality but from a quantum physics point of view, may still fall a little short on complexity (as a theory).

My take on evolution is a work in progress but is considerably more complex than what is commonly thought of. The eye can only observe a portion of our reality, even with the help of electron microscopes. But the truth of our appearance and development on this planet is still centuries away and will not be fully understood until we evolve to the next step in our evolution.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You might be onto something there SJP. Jean Chretien is doing alot of work for a Calgary law firm these days and as we all know, he is full-fledged Catholic.

I'm thinking that AB's move on this issue is to aggressively reach out to the Quebec and Ontario liberals that still pine for the good ole days of Jean.

Am I close?

That is business, Captain, that does that have to do with politics? Chrétien will work where he thinks will benefit him most; politics has nothing to do with it. Indeed, anybody who mixes business, money making with politics is probably not a very good entrepreneur.