Czech jets touted as Canada's Snowbird replacement

[#juan]

Anyway, I'd rather Canadians use something Canadian.
Hey, I have an idea; the Israelis seem to have and awesome batch of pilots. We could use a few of them to fly the Snowbirds, too. Or American Top Guns.

I don't understand your point. Israeli pilots are no better than Canadian pilots.

 

[AnnaG]

One thing the Tudor did do was to provide a smooth transition from relatively slow propeller aircraft to the faster jets. There was enough performance overlap so that a pilot in training could go from a highwing Cessna to a Tudor to a CF-18 without high risk.

Hawk's are jets.
BTW, the way I understood it, the Tutors took over from CT-133s which weren't high-wing Cessnas.

We could use Hawks. But first we have to buy them.

Why? We have them already. CT-155 Hawk | Aircraft | Canada’s Air Force

 

[AnnaG]

I don't understand your point. Israeli pilots are no better than Canadian pilots.

Well, we will be using Czech planes. Those aren't Canadian. Why not use pilots from some other place, too?

Are Canadians "renowned for maintaining air superiority" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force
I googled Canada air superiority. There isn't much there that doesn't say WW2.

 

[jambo101]

The L-159 advanced light combat aircraft is relatively new, with the aircraft delivered to the Czech military between 2000 and 2003. and the deal isnt a for sure they are just talking about the possbility.Unfortunate that Canada cant or doesnt want to compete in this field of aviation,if they had a capable jet made in Canada i'd be all for the Canadian product but if the Czech aircraft can be had for a good price why not buy it, like its only for airshows eh! and we have the CF18 hornet for any serious combat.
Specifications: L159 ALCA Advanced Light Combat Aircraft - Air Force Technology

Good looking plane to me..take a ride

Aviation Video: The L-159 Advanced Light Combat Aircraft (ALCA) | Patrick's Aviation

 

[AnnaG]

Hawk specs from http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/v2/equip/ct155/index-eng.asp:
Technical Specifications

Length 12.43 m Wingspan 9.94 m Height 3.98 m Empty Weight 4400 kg Maximum Gross Weight 9100 kg Power Rolls-Royce Mk.871 Adour turbofan Speed Mach 0.82 Service Ceiling 1372 m Range 2622 km Crew 1 pilot, 1 instructor Year(s) procured Leased by CF in 2000 Quantity in CF 16 Location(s)

• 15 Wing Moose Jaw, SK
• 4 Wing Cold Lake, AB

 

[jambo101]

Anna your link is giving me a 404 error.

 

[lone wolf]

Maybe it's the straight-wing configuration that says "airplane" to people?

 

[AnnaG]

Anna your link is giving me a 404 error.

Sorry, it's the same one from my earlier post where I said we have already have Hawks: CT-155 Hawk | Aircraft | Canada’s Air Force

 

[jambo101]

That hawk looks good as well i guess its like buying a car prices need to be factored into the equation..

 

[gerryh]

Hawk specs:
Technical Specifications


Quantity in CF 16 Location(s)

• 15 Wing Moose Jaw, SK
• 4 Wing Cold Lake, AB

First, the numbers don't ass up, but that is minor. With only 19 aircraft in the fleet, Juan is right, we would have to purchase more hawks to be able to outfit the Snowbirds. More than likley at least ouble the number of Hawks to acomadate the Snowbird squadron. The Czech fighters that are being proposed, or looked at, are FAR superior to the Hawks.

 

[gerryh]

Why spend billions keeping the firearms registry going just to turn farmers and ranchers into criminals? Those Czech planes are top-of-the-line and don't need modifications?

You seem to have a problem with apples and oranges....try to concentrate and stay on topic.

 

[AnnaG]

First, the numbers don't ass up, but that is minor. With only 19 aircraft in the fleet, Juan is right, we would have to purchase more hawks to be able to outfit the Snowbirds. More than likley at least ouble the number of Hawks to acomadate the Snowbird squadron. The Czech fighters that are being proposed, or looked at, are FAR superior to the Hawks.

Well fine. You're the expert, I guess.
As far as the numbers go, it's what the gov't posted about the Hawks, so it's their mistake not mine. Argue with them about the numbers.

Actually, I found something that indicates the author(s) is(are) REAL experts on the subject:

Snowbird Replacement Aircraft Project - SARP - CT-114 Tutor Replacement - Aircraft Replacement - Government Military Sales - Military Jet Aircraft - Used Aircraft Sales - Commercial Aircraft Leasing - Project Training - Air Force - Succession Plannin

 

[AnnaG]

You seem to have a problem with apples and oranges....try to concentrate and stay on topic.

Is this the best you can do? Nitpick? Quit being obtuse, Gerry. My point was that the gov't is used to wasting billions on stupidity. Be careful or you'll start looking like the other nitpicker, Sir Joke.

 

[gerryh]

I doubt it anna.... It's you that threw in the gun registry, and Isreali pilots.

 

[AnnaG]

I doubt it anna.... It's you that threw in the gun registry, and Isreali pilots.

So you still didn't get my points? Well, I'm not going to explain it again, so I guess you're SOL. I bet everyone else got the points.
Now, you want to quit being a nitpicking troll and get back to the topic?

 

[#juan]

So you still didn't get my points? Well, I'm not going to explain it again, so I guess you're SOL. I bet everyone else got the points.
Now, you want to quit being a nitpicking troll and get back to the topic?

Anna without trying to be unkind, you are arguing outside your knowledge of the subject. The Tudor jet trainer was a great transitional trainer to get pilots trained from relatively slow propellar aircraft to higher speed jets. The Tudors are simply getting too old.
I flew jet aircraft with the RCAF. Aircraft like the T-33, the F-86 and a few others.

 

[AnnaG]

Anna without trying to be unkind, you are arguing outside your knowledge of the subject. The Tudor jet trainer was a great transitional trainer to get pilots trained from relatively slow propellar aircraft to higher speed jets. The Tudors are simply getting too old.
I flew jet aircraft with the RCAF. Aircraft like the T-33, the F-86 and a few others.

Look, Juan, I already said I am no aeronautical genius. But I doubt anyone else here is either. I am just going by what I read and that one site made more sense than this idea of getting the Czech planes.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]

Unsolicited Bid: Variations on a Hawk Theme

DND had also received a proposal from ARINC Engineering and Venga Aerospace who offered a 20 lease on used, upgraded Hawks.[4] DND’s response was “non-committal”. The companies claimed their proposed lease/maintenance deal would cost the same as the current Snowbirds budget but with 33% fuel cost savings due to more modern engines. The used Hawk 66s have since been sold.

[/SIZE][/FONT]You snooze you lose.
The Snowbird budget is $10 million last I heard. It could have been trimmed with the 33% fuel savings.

Anyway, I found something else. About a quarter of the way down the page here:

David Pugliese’s Defence Watch - Ottawa Citizen

Just found another alternative that Canada has mothballed about 50 of; the CF116. Apparently they are low-maintenance and a good sturdy machine.

(And you didn't sound unkind, you sounded condescending. Like "Gee little girl, you should leave the ideas and thinking up to the grown up men. Just sit there and look pretty", but that's ok, I've been talked down to before.)

 

[jambo101]

Just found another alternative that Canada has mothballed about 50 of; the CF116

Nice looking jet in its day but the Canadian air force retired it in 1995,was made in the early 60's.., its not about just getting another plane its about replacing a 40 year old plane,be kinda pointless to replace the 40 year old Tutor with the 50 year old CF116 Freedom fighter.

I flew jet aircraft with the RCAF. Aircraft like the T-33, the F-86 and a few others.

Juan you arent pulling our collective legs here for the sake of arguement are you?

 

[petros]

And those Czech planes are top-of-the-line?

Why aren't the Thunderbirds using the F-22 Raptors then?

The Raptor progrram was cancelled.

Another thing is they need to be two seaters.

CFB Moose Jaw where the Snowbirds are based is now a NATO training center. The Hawk is what NATO is using and the base has all the bells and whistles needed to service and maintain the Hawk which is an ideal aircraft for replacing the old Tutor.

Why not use what we already own and are equipped for?

 

[jambo101]

The F-22 Raptors could definitely fill the role with a few modifications but if taking a dozen of them out of their combat role to make a dedicated acrobatic team they would then need to be replaced with a dozen more similar aircraft to replace them, so i think it would come down to price for the new Raptor replacements or the slightly used Czech jets,either option is coming out of our taxes.