Canadian border officers cause trauma to good people

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
A few years back, a friend crossed back into Canada in a beautifully aged '57 BelAir. All the paperwork was good. Buddie's not a good card player - but at least they didn't trash the car. Buddy was a vet with a pedigree - one of the ones who got home.

Buddy had a twin to that Arizona Chevy parted out behind his barn too....
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Conclusion? Boycott the USA!

Assuming the above recording is real, the border guard asked a ridiculous question and the Canadian tourist gave attitude as a response. The Canadian was out of line by not answering his ridiculous question with a straight answer. The second border guard was initially polite and professional. The Canadian should have shut up and waited patiently for the border guards to finish their job. Instead he mouthed off and taunted them. No surprise he ended up getting arrested even though the charges are ridiculous. Denying him entry would have been a more reasonable response.

Traveling to the US is not a right. The American border guards determine who and what can enter the US, and they don't have to give a reason or an explanation for their decisions or their questions. The same thing in the other direction.

Even though the majority of US border guards I've encountered, have acted professionally, half of that conversation sounded familiar... US border guards have also asked me equally stupid questions, behaved just as arrogantly and made similar veiled threats... and unlike this situation without any provocation.

BS like this is one reason why I avoid traveling to the US. I used to apply for TN Visas to work in the US for my American clients. I have no intention to live in the US but occasionally my American clients have a last minute need for someone with my qualifications to deliver a 4-5 day seminar. If they can't find someone, they will loose tens of thousands of dollars in revenue and could be responsible for paying attendee travel costs and lost productivity time. Sometimes people back out of a commitment to deliver these seminars at the last minute and the client has to find someone to cover for them. The call goes out first for an American, but if one can't be found, then the request goes international. Usually Canadians are the most convenient and cheapest solution to the problem. Canadian Professionals like myself can only apply for a TN Visa while on route. Which means that we can't know in advance if we are going to be allowed in.

I was told the process was straight forward, which it used to be before 9/11. Since 9/11, US Homeland Security are very tight about granting TN Visas. I should qualify for a TN Visa under NAFTA as a professional. Homeland Security has granted my TN Visa request at least half a dozen times over the years. But I've also been denied 3 times. Two of three times, it was a misinterpretation of NAFTA and once because I forgot to print out my resume (my fault). Two of the three times I was denied, Homeland Security was very snarky about it. One of those times, they went through my luggage, found a corkscrew in my checked luggage and made a veiled threat about locking me up for trying to smuggle a weapon on a plane.... in my checked luggage. Ridiculous! I think I rolled my eyes at the threat, but I never said anything impolite or provocative. But I knew at that point I was not going to get my TN Visa. All three times I was denied a TN Visa, I got my Visa on the second attempt at another crossing.

Note: If you are denied your TN Visa, withdraw your application. Its less paper work for them and you don't a "denied entry" flag on your file.

Now that I've been denied entry to the US 3 times, I have to answer the question have you ever been denied entry to the US every time I go to the US. As soon as they check my passport, they can see how many times I've been denied entry. The question really is, "Are you a liar". Since I've been denied entry in the past, I always get the 50 questions on the initial interview. The last time I tried to travel to the US, it was on business with a valid TN Visa. I arrived 3 hours before my flight. I got the 50 questions at the initial interview, they took my passport and was sent to the interrogation area. They made me wait for 3 hours and 5 minutes, asked no questions, gave me back my passport and let me go.... 5 minutes after my flight left. I'm sure it was deliberate. I had to catch another plane to another city, rent a car and drive 6 hours to my destination. I passed the additional costs on to my American client which makes me uncompetitive with my American counterparts.

So now I say screw it. My American clients can find someone else to save their bacon in their time of need. Also, I don't travel to the US as a tourist anymore just on principle. I have little sympathy for Canadians who travel to the US with their Canadian dollars to save a few cents shopping. I hope more Canadian cross border shoppers are harassed by US Homeland Security like the Canadian in this recording, as its good for Canada. When Canadians travel to the US to shop, they are taking away jobs from Canadians and moving wealth from Canada to the US. Spending your money in Canada, results in Canadians getting the economic benefits.
 

3sands

New Member
Aug 29, 2010
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I guess you got it even worse than I did. Those are some pretty bad stories. I have only gone to the US a few times in the past few years. Going over to the US the guards were friendly and even humorous.Always nice. But coming back to my own country, my own countryman(guards at the bridge), treat me like dirt ! I have watched them have the greatest respect for Arab looking individuals when I was detained. This is sad to me as I have aged parents in the US and I do not go over and see them because I am now so afraid of what they might do to me at the bridge coming back to Canada ! Having been detained,now what do I say coming back. I can now expect to be hassled every time. My whole incident was rediculous too ! If I do need to go over when I have a death in the family, I can expect another nightmare ! My friend in Toronto no longer goes over to the US because of an incident coming back to her own country ! Her nightmare was over a few things they bought to eat coming over the bridge ! Should I get a new plate for my car? My Veterinarian had a bad experience coming back to Canada. Now everytime he travels out of Canada on a conference and comes back, he is detained and strip searched ! Every time !I was shocked when he told his story to me !
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Oh brother...

Seeing as we're all going to throw out anecdotes...

I have a lengthy criminal record, I'm a visible minority, I have ties to militant groups, and I have never been hassled by American or Canadian Border Service Agents.

Ever.

Since 9/11, I have had to cross the border once, with out issue, for business. I choose not to risk crossing for trivial matters, until I can get a pardon for my last offence, so I do not end up persona non grata in the US.

But all in all, I have been polite, had all my papers handy, I was treated well, and on my merry way I went.

I guess you got it even worse than I did.
Again...

Is your name Joelle Kott?

Are you an associate of Joelle Kott's?

Have you ever done business with Joelle Kott?
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Oh brother...

Seeing as we're all going to throw out anecdotes...

I have a lengthy criminal record, I'm a visible minority, I have ties to militant groups, and I have never been hassled by American or Canadian Border Service Agents.

Ever.

Since 9/11, I have had to cross the border once, with out issue, for business. I choose not to risk crossing for trivial matters, until I can get a pardon for my last offence, so I do not end up persona non grata in the US.

But all in all, I have been polite, had all my papers handy, I was treated well, and on my merry way I went.

Again...

Is your name Joelle Kott?

Are you an associate of Joelle Kott's?

Have you ever done business with Joelle Kott?

Traveled quite a bit before and after 911 - From Bosnia to Canada - back and forth - While I have met some Customs people that were not all smiles etc - not one was ever rude - And I watched all the other line ups as people went thru customs

1 thing though - Coming back from Frankfurt - we could not land in Calgary so we were diverted to Vancouver.

We landed at the same time as a plane from Heathrow.

Then they had these nice signs up - declaring goods or not. And you picked which to go thru

Myself and another fellow from Bosnia were the only ones that went thru the line to declare goods.

Must have been 5-6 hundred people and we were the only ones. Right.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Traveled quite a bit before and after 911 - From Bosnia to Canada - back and forth - While I have met some Customs people that were not all smiles etc - not one was ever rude - And I watched all the other line ups as people went thru customs

1 thing though - Coming back from Frankfurt - we could not land in Calgary so we were diverted to Vancouver.

We landed at the same time as a plane from Heathrow.

Then they had these nice signs up - declaring goods or not. And you picked which to go thru

Myself and another fellow from Bosnia were the only ones that went thru the line to declare goods.

Must have been 5-6 hundred people and we were the only ones. Right.
Ever notice the common theme is these types of anti authority rant threads?
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Ever notice the common theme is these types of anti authority rant threads?
Yes - Now it is time for my mid-morning nap - or late morning nap - or early before afternoon arrives nap - not sure of what type of nap it is - so I will have a little nap and ponder the probabilities and different permutations of this very important and critical to good health topic.

Also waiting for appliances to be delivered. Wife has a list of things for me to do - so I write -TAKE NAP at the very top.

A place for everything and everything in it place - Translation - Nap time
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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Toronto
I find honesty is the best policy with no attitude when dealing with border guards

Years back I drove to the Alberta/Montana border, got there at 4 am and the sign read open 7 am since I drove 16 hours straight I decided to park at the gate and go through when it opened.

The Canadian guard woke me up and I drove through and the American border guard told me to stop at the office.

I was given the third degree and another American border guard escorted me to my car for an inspection.

On the way there I explained about sleeping on the Canadian side and driving over the border when woken up when we got to my car he told me to open my trunk and when I did he told me to have a nice day and he walked back to his office without checking it.

The many times I went over the border I was asked four questions;
What’s your name?
Where are you from?
Where are you going?
How long are you going to be in the country?

No attitude will get you through every time.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Traveled quite a bit before and after 911 - From Bosnia to Canada - back and forth - While I have met some Customs people that were not all smiles etc - not one was ever rude - And I watched all the other line ups as people went thru customs

1 thing though - Coming back from Frankfurt - we could not land in Calgary so we were diverted to Vancouver.

We landed at the same time as a plane from Heathrow.

Then they had these nice signs up - declaring goods or not. And you picked which to go thru

Myself and another fellow from Bosnia were the only ones that went thru the line to declare goods.

Must have been 5-6 hundred people and we were the only ones. Right.

So far, I've had only 3 bad experiences out of at least a hundred trips abroad over the years. I've only had problems traveling to the US on business and that's an important difference.

Of the 3 negative experiences. I would describe one as just impolite.

The second worst I really don't know why they made me miss my plane. It may not have been deliberate as I never got an explanation.

My worst experience was deliberate harassment. I think I got the border guard going when I said, "I'm applying for a TN Visa and since I already have one, this should be relatively straight forward". My comments weren't intended to tell him how to do his job, but when he replied, "Excuse me sir, but I'll decide what is relatively straight forward." I realized I made a Faux Pas. 4 hours of interrogation and a veiled threat of incarceration later, I was allowed entry and withdrew my TN Visa request on the advice of another Homeland Security guy, who was polite and professional. For all I know, I got the "good cop, bad cop" routine...

The other hundred or so times I've traveled to the US, (including twice when I was denied a TN Visa and entry to the US), I'd describe Homeland Security as polite and professional. In fact, one of the times I was denied entry to the US, I'd describe the Homeland Security Agent as pleasant, kind and thoughtful. But no he was not going to let me into the US and grant me a TN Visa. I got good advice instead.

I have no problems with people in authority who do their jobs with professionalism, even when I disagree with their decision.

Tourists bring money into a country. Business people potentially take jobs. In my case, my services could be provided by an American. As a result I am far more likely to get the "many questions" than most tourists.

Try telling Homeland Security you want a TN Visa. For some you've just activated their Homeland Gestapo subroutine... The facial expressions, body language and questions change completely.

I suspect this in not a uniquely American phenomenon as I am aware some of my American colleagues and acquaintances have had similar experiences coming to Canada to work. As per NAFTA, professionals should be allowed to work in Canada and the US, because the net effect is beneficial, provided its equally reciprocal.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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My worst experience was deliberate harassment. I think I got the border guard going when I said, "I'm applying for a TN Visa and since I already have one, this should be relatively straight forward". My comments weren't intended to tell him how to do his job, but when he replied, "Excuse me sir, but I'll decide what is relatively straight forward."
Seeing as the TN has been found to be abused as a defacto green card. Deductive reasoning would indicate to some, that prolonged use would raise the odd flag.

Try telling Homeland Security you want a TN Visa. For some you've just activated their Homeland Gestapo subroutine...
Would that qualify for Godwin's law? Because it sure is quite indicative of that anti authority issue, so prominent in the theme of these threads.

I suspect this in not a uniquely American phenomenon as I am aware some of my American colleagues and acquaintances have had similar experiences coming to Canada to work. As per NAFTA, professionals should be allowed to work in Canada and the US, because the net effect is beneficial, provided its equally reciprocal.
And not being abused.
 

3sands

New Member
Aug 29, 2010
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No I am not Joelle Kott.
I just did a search on Google to see what you are refering to.
But, why do people pick on all dog people ? This is another subject for discussion on a new thread.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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LOL

9:39 was the best part!

SLAM... as the cell door is closed.

What a mess he got himself into as well as his wife.

And all because that boy didn't read the book, "I Declare"- I couldn't make out half of what the woman was saying, but he was out of line right from the get go. :lol::lol:
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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And all because that boy didn't read the book, "I Declare"- I couldn't make out half of what the woman was saying, but he was out of line right from the get go. :lol::lol:

I totally get what the Canadian was trying to say but sometimes you just have to deal with the BS. Where he went wrong was with...

"What stores will you be shopping in at the mall?"

"Are you serious? I don't know."

lol

The correct answer would be,

"I am not so sure Sir. We are going to look for clothes so mostly clothing stores."

Simple!
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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I totally get what the Canadian was trying to say but sometimes you just have to deal with the BS. Where he went wrong was with...

"What stores will you be shopping in at the mall?"

"Are you serious? I don't know."

lol

The correct answer would be,

"I am not so sure Sir. We are going to look for clothes so mostly clothing stores."

Simple!
And let's not forget, we come into a conversation, that was started before the record button was hit.