Analysts: More Libyan bloodshed could prompt U.S., NATO intervention

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Oshawa
Why should we finish them off, they never attacked us. Gadhafi was being a good boy and had been for quite a few years, I say leave them alone and may the best side win. Why fight so France and Italy can reclaim part of their old empires.

Well said.

To bad you didn't feel that way when Bush was invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

It would make your statement more credible and less partisan.

Btw your guy (McCain) was just in Lybia visiting the rebels.....guess now you have to rethink your position on this as Obama is clearly less committed to this thing than neo-cons are.:lol:
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Well said.

To bad you didn't feel that way when Bush was invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

It would make your statement more credible and less partisan.

Btw your guy (McCain) was just in Lybia visiting the rebels.....guess now you have to rethink your position on this as Obama is clearly less committed to this thing than neo-cons are.:lol:

I was totally in favor of invading Afghanistan and was opposed to leaving to invade Iraq before the job was done. I know leaving the finishing up process to the U.N. and our allies was a big mistake as hindsight has proven. Obama is the one ordering the destruction of Libya, not McCain.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
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Oshawa
I was totally in favor of invading Afghanistan and was opposed to leaving to invade Iraq before the job was done. I know leaving the finishing up process to the U.N. and our allies was a big mistake as hindsight has proven. Obama is the one ordering the destruction of Libya, not McCain.

I know you were in favor of both Iraq and Afghanistan which leaves you uncredible on Lybia.....both unnecessary.

Obama is less than enthusiastic about it than McCain and you know it.

Question is, would you still support this little escapade if McCain were president?

What a tangled web we weave.:lol:
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
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Yup.

I wish we could see some sort of realistic computer simulation that set up two different scenarios.

1.) With NATO
2.) Without NATO

I'd be really inclined to know how different the results of this conflict would have been without our intervention.

NATO is screwing the pooch..
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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I know you were in favor of both Iraq and Afghanistan which leaves you uncredible on Lybia.....both unnecessary.

Obama is less than enthusiastic about it than McCain and you know it.

Question is, would you still support this little escapade if McCain were president?

What a tangled web we weave.:lol:

I never supported what is going on in Libya, so your question is meaningless. If McCain were President my response would be the same.

Yup.

I wish we could see some sort of realistic computer simulation that set up two different scenarios.

1.) With NATO
2.) Without NATO

I'd be really inclined to know how different the results of this conflict would have been without our intervention.

I would like to see the results also. I don't think Libya's airforce would have been knocked out so easily if at all without the U.S. and Great Briton being involved.



"Libya possesses one of the most robust air defense networks on the African continent, falling second only to Egypt in terms of coverage and operational systems. Libyan strategic SAM assets are primarily arrayed along the coastline, ostensibly defending the bulk of the Libyan population and preventing foreign incursion into Libyan airspace."


The Libyan Air Defense System. Libya's Surface to Air Missile (SAM) Network
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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I never supported what is going on in Libya, so your question is meaningless. If McCain were President my response would be the same.

If If If.... who cares. We have a President and he's dropped the ball.

Oh... and he's dropped the ball.


I would like to see the results also. I don't think Libya's airforce would have been knocked out so easily if at all without the U.S. and Great Briton being involved.

Of course not, same as the illegal war in Yugoslavia. US Airpower dropped the Serbs to their knees.

To their knees.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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kelowna bc
I am more on the left than on the right when it comes to going to war in a hurry but this
is an exception. The rebels are asking for assistance and have from the beginning. It
is time to start thinking about which ones to save and which ones not to.
Libya is a nation where there is no central command and the terrorists are not the prime
force here.
In Syria, different story, in Syria there is a measure of secularism that is not as much as
Iraq but some. Here the rebels are organized fighters and many are likely terrorist plants.
Yemen is a mixture of students, terrorists and even whacked out clergy we best be careful
on this one, and Egypt is another one that could go either way. We must balance the
stability of the region with ambition for democracy. Remember the democracy they are
talking about is not the same as the democracy we have here and long way from it.
I am reluctantly saying yes we should even up the score to prevent the organized movements
from coming in as saviours and hijacking the agenda for freedoms and reforms.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Hey guyz - check out our new friends!


Libya loyalists demand revenge after Gadhafi's son killed in NATO strike

Libyan officials said 29-year-old Seif al-Arab was killed late Saturday along with three of Gadhafi's grandchildren when NATO bombed the family's compound in Tripoli.


Mourners shouted for revenge Monday as some 2,000 people in the Libyan capital greeted a funeral procession carrying Muammar Gadhafi's second youngest son, who officials say was killed in a NATO airstrike.

The crowd jostled to get close to Seif al-Arab Gadhafi's coffin as it was taken out of a black hearse and placed near a cemetery in Tripoli. Some people prayed, some flashed victory signs and others shouted at the top of their lungs.

Revenge, revenge for you Libya, shouted the crowd around the coffin, which was draped in the green Libyan flag and was topped with a wreath of flowers that were wilting in the heat. We demand revenge for our martyrs.

Libyan officials said 29-year-old Seif al-Arab was killed late Saturday along with three of Gadhafi's grandchildren when NATO bombed the family's compound in Tripoli. Gadhafi and his wife were present during the attack but were unharmed, they said.

Some countries criticized the strike, saying it exceeded the UN mandate of protecting civilians in Libya. The UN approved the implementation of a no-fly zone in Libya in March after Gadhafi used aircraft to attack protesters who demanded his ouster.

The South African government issued a statement Monday saying attacks on leaders and officials can only result in the escalation of tensions and conflicts on all sides and make future reconciliation difficult.


The most recent barrage came after Gadhafi forces brought their tanks to the western gates of Misrata, said Libyan activist Rida al-Montasser. The shelling started up early Monday morning and only paused with the threat of NATO airstrikes, he said.

Only when we heard the NATO planes flying over, the shelling paused, said al-Montasser.
NATO aircraft have carried out multiple airstrikes to try to stop Gadhafi's siege, but alliance officials have said they have found it difficult to target forces hidden in Misrata's urban environment.
Even as the shelling paused Monday, fear spread through Misrata that Gadhafi forces were preparing to use chemical weapons in their fight to defeat the rebels, who control eastern Libya and have demanded the Libyan leader step down.

We heard like everybody else that the soldiers are distributing gas masks in the nearby city of Zlitan, said al-Montasser.

The rumors of Gadhafi forces distributing gas masks could not be independently confirmed.
A UN watchdog indicated in February, soon after the Libyan revolution started, that it was unlikely that Gadhafi would use chemical weapons because he had no weapon to deliver such a payload. Gadhafi destroyed the aerial bombs as part of a 2003 reconciliation deal with the West, said the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. He also destroyed more than 50 percent of his stockpile for producing mustard gas, it said.

U.S. and British intelligence agencies reportedly have been concerned that Gadhafi may not have declared all his munitions and may have held some back, but no evidence has surfaced to support those fears.

Experts say conventional warheads cannot easily be adapted to chemical warfare. The chemical agent is in liquid form, must be kept stable at various temperatures, then converted to an aerosol and dispersed over a wide are12 people, raising the two-day death toll to 23.
Also Sunday, vandals burned the British and Italian embassies and a UN office in Tripoli, hours after the NATO strike that killed Gadhafi's son.

Turkey temporarily closed its embassy in Tripoli on Monday due to deteriorating security, and its staff traveled to Tunisia, said Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu.



Libya loyalists demand revenge after Gadhafi's son killed in NATO strike - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


It's only fair, we lost one of our old friends recently that we would need some new ones!
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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NATO missiles hit Gaddafi’s complex

Three people died and 27 were injured in the attack, a Gaddafi spokesman said. The strikes appeared to be part of a stepped-up NATO campaign in recent days that reflects better coordination with Libyan rebels and has helped the rebels make significant advances in the key city of Misurata.

The fight over Misurata has been the bloodiest battle in the nearly three-month-long conflict, and the rebel gains come as NATO has increased the intensity of its bombardment and its coordination with rebel officials.

Ibrahim did not say whether Gaddafi, who has both residential and administrative quarters in the complex, was there when the missiles hit. But he questioned whether the location was a valid target for the NATO campaign.

“It’s an official administrative facility that doesn’t have any military applications,” Ibrahim said.

As the rebels were consolidating their gains, U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon called Wednesday for an immediate cease-fire in Libya, saying that he had spoken with Gaddafi’s prime minister and would be sending a special envoy to Tripoli “as soon as possible.”

Gaddafi also called for a cease-fire in an appearance on state television 12 days ago. But neither side has stopped fighting.

Jibril, of the opposition’s Transitional National Council, said rebels opposed a simple cease-fire. “A cease-fire without any political process is the actual and real partition of the country. This is not acceptable at all,” he said.

NATO said Wednesday that it welcomed the idea of a cease-fire, even though it has escalated its bombing campaign in recent days.


NATO missiles hit Gaddafi’s complex - The Washington Post
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Harper calls for extension of Libya mission


"We'll be looking for an extension to our mission," said Harper, when it comes up for debate in Parliament next month.

Harper didn't clarify how much longer he wants air force and navy crews in Libya. But he did make clear he felt Canadian and NATO forces have been successful in helping secure large parts of Libya and reduce Gadhafi's ability to cling to power.

The G8 statement on Syria was not nearly as tough. It merely called on Syria's government to stop using force on protesters and implement serious reforms, or else the G8 nations would "consider further measures." There's no listing of what measures they'd consider using against a Syrian regime where an estimated 1,000 civilian protesters have been killed by government forces.

Harper was asked why Syria didn't get as harsh condemnation as Libya did.

"Every situation is different," he said. "In Libya, we're operating under an international mandate of the Security Council. We have taken unilateral sanctions in the case of Syria, but obviously we do not have any kind of international mandate for anything resembling military action."

Dabbling further in Middle Eastern politics, the G8 also expressed united support for U.S. President Barack Obama's May 19 speech in which he calls for the Palestinians and Israelis to return to "substantive talks" on a peace agreement.

The G8 statement made no specific mention of seeking a deal that's based on Israel's borders prior to 1967 as Obama had specified.

Some diplomats have said any reference to 1967 was dropped at Harper's insistence.


http://www.torontosun.com/2011/05/27/harper-calls-for-extension-of-libya-mission