A spanked child may be a better adult

[SirJosephPorter]

you are right over all the crime rate is down but if you look into the youth crime rate it has risen and that is what we are discussing

And just where did you get that bunch of boloney? For your information, the overall youth crime rate in 2006 was 6% lower than a decade earlier and 25% below the peak of 1991. No doubt some categories are up, but the overall crime rate is down compared to a decade or two ago.

The Daily, Friday, May 16, 2008. Youth crime

 

[AnnaG]

Society is just screwy because people have lost their good sense of priority and because of that, kids are generally confused. They need support for doing good things. Making money at the expense of someone else or the rest of the planet is not a good thing and they have to learn to love and/or respect people, other critters, and our planet.

 

[justinmb]

That is why I posted the article read it, there is a lot of truth there many acts are not reported you can count only what is convicted but that does not mean it did not happen open your eyes and look around you and you will see it from small towns to big cities

 

[justinmb]

good point

 

[JLM]

Gee, I just hate to see all this sweetness and light, everybody (well, almost everybody) agreeing how spanking is right. Well, it is time for me to set the cat among the pigeons.

JLM, quoting a study from a Christian College? Be ashamed. What conclusion do you think a researcher at a Christian college is going to come to? Suppose she had come to the conclusion that spanking is harmful to the children (as many studies have shown), do you think she would have kept her job?

Indeed, somebody made this precisely same point. To quote from your link:

“Grant Wilson, president of the Canadian Children's Rights Council, suggested that the study's results may have been influenced by Calvin College's Christian affiliation, adding that some religious groups have opposed abolition of corporal punishment.”

Doesn’t the Bible say ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’? What other conclusion would you expect a Christian college to come up with? Indeed, a professor at a Christian college concluding that spanking is beneficial is tantamount to a study financed by the tobacco lobby coming to the conclusion that smoking is good for you. Give me a break!

Besides, the study is probably seriously flawed scientifically. Again, to quote your link

“However this latest research, which Prof. Gunnoe admitted was previously rejected by two professional journals, including the Journal of Family Psychology, contradicts other findings that spanking is counterproductive.”

The paper was rejected by two scientific journals. The article doesn’t say that it had been published by any scientific journal, so it is quite possible that no scientific journal would publish it.

In summary this is a study by a special interest group (a Christian College) which is trying to promote their own theology (spare the rod, spoil the child). It is no different than a study sponsored by tobacco industry telling us that smoking isn’t harmful to you, or a company manufacturing candy bars, sweets, coming up with a diet which includes eating two of their candy bars every day (this actually happened).

In other word, the study is worth nothing.

Why should I be ashamed? I got it from the National Post, I've never delved into their political leanings, just know their stock market quotes appear to be accurate. I neither approve of it or disapprove, but let's face it S.J. - it is statistics.

 

[justinmb]

Society is just screwy because people have lost their good sense of priority and because of that, kids are generally confused. They need support for doing good things. Making money at the expense of someone else or the rest of the planet is not a good thing and they have to learn to love and/or respect people, other critters, and our planet.

sorry double post good point

 

[karrie]

My main issue justin, is that if you look at history, it is full to the brim of grim ponderances from one generation, about how the next generation is crap, and going to send the world into a tail spin.

It has yet to crumble. Society keeps ticking.

Youth grow up and develop the adult tendency to suspect that the next generation is crap and going to kill us all. On and on it goes.

 

[JLM]

Just wondering S.J. are you saying that if something comes out of a Christian's mouth that automatically makes it suspect? or maybe wrong?

 

[justinmb]

how true (Kerrie)

 

[JLM]

And just where did you get that bunch of boloney? For your information, the overall youth crime rate in 2006 was 6% lower than a decade earlier and 25% below the peak of 1991. No doubt some categories are up, but the overall crime rate is down compared to a decade or two ago.

The Daily, Friday, May 16, 2008. Youth crime

I think if you check back the crime rate may have taken a drastic drop just after the Charter of Rights took effect. If enough criminals got their "rights", then there wouldn't be near as many baddies among them.

 

[Francis2004]

Gee, I just hate to see all this sweetness and light, everybody (well, almost everybody) agreeing how spanking is right. Well, it is time for me to set the cat among the pigeons.

Pardon ? 8O

 

[JLM]

I not a scientist but it seems to me we have a generation or two coming up where spanking was rare? if not frowned upon, now the same generations have not had a parent home for the majority I think and there is this thing called the internet but it seems to me the kids are getting worse now what does one attribute it to I am not sure but I think it is a combination of the three no discipline no structure and no monitoring. I could be wrong it is just my observation of surrounding influences

I think you might just be onto something- actually a lot. :smile:

 

[AnnaG]

I think if you check back the crime rate may have taken a drastic drop just after the Charter of Rights took effect. If enough criminals got their "rights", then there wouldn't be near as many baddies among them.

Property crime and some violent crime is usually sparked by a big gap between have nots and haves.

Here's a list of reasons for crime:

Reasons for Crime

 

[SirJosephPorter]

That is why I posted the article read it, there is a lot of truth there many acts are not reported you can count only what is convicted but that does not mean it did not happen open your eyes and look around you and you will see it from small towns to big cities

Sorry, but we can only go by statistics, that is the objective evidence. Somebody’s personal opinion is just that, personal opinion. According to statistics, crime is down and has been on a downward path for a long time now.

 

[JLM]

How exactly are upcoming generations 'worse'?

I'm not sure that they are - the one main difference I've noticed over the years is less gratitude among kids (probably starting in the 70s) but hey that's just me.

 

[JLM]

What worked for you may not always work. You may have been lucky. If there is no consequence, what aversion does the kid learn? Spanking is a last resort - spanking ... NOT beating or browbeating into sumbission. Can you provide a like to some absolute proof that a couple of slaps on the bottom ever created a monster?

Well, that's just it, what works for one parent or with one child, isn't guaranteed to have the same results with another. When any discipline is meted out, for it to work the administator has to have credibility.

 

[AnnaG]

I'm not sure that they are - the one main difference I've noticed over the years is less gratitude among kids (probably starting in the 70s) but hey that's just me.

That's usually a result of lack of respect. And kids need to be taught self-respect before they can be guided in having respect for others. And self-respect is a lot easier to get into a kid when you've given them a grasp of self-confidence which is a real toughie sometimes.

 

[JLM]

"At a rate of 7,518 reported incidents per 100,000 people, the crime rate in 2006, the latest year for which there is statistics, was the lowest crime rate in twenty-five years.[1] The crime rate has been in general decline since 1991."

according to a cursory look on Wiki.

Ooooooooh there's those statistics again, personally when it comes to child behaviour I'd be more inclined to go with the old anecdotal...................:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Why should I be ashamed? I got it from the National Post, I've never delved into their political leanings, just know their stock market quotes appear to be accurate. I neither approve of it or disapprove, but let's face it S.J. - it is statistics.

It is not statistics JLM, it is a study. And when one looks at a study, one has to question the bias of the investigator. And in this case the bias sticks out like a sore thumb. A professor from a Christian college proves that something written in the Bible has validity. The whole thing is nonsense; especially when there is strong suspicion that the study was not good enough to be published, in scientific, refereed journals.

 

[AnnaG]

Crime stats according to police in 2008:

http://www.crime-prevention-intl.org/filebin/Documents ajouts 2009/Aout/stat_can_ENG.pdf