Israel- Hamas Ceasefire


Goober
#1
Israel- Hamas Ceasefire

Israel and Hamas agree to ceasefire after week of intense fighting | Israel & Middle East | World | News | National Post

GAZA/JERUSALEM — Israel and Hamas agreed on Wednesday to a ceasefire brokered by Egypt on the eighth day of intensive Israeli fire on the Gaza Strip and terrorist-led rocket attacks out of the enclave, Israeli, Palestinian and Egyptian sources said.

First word of the truce came from a Palestinian official who has knowledge of the negotiations in Cairo, where U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was also pursuing peace efforts.

Asked whether a ceasefire deal had been reached, an Egyptian official in Cairo said: “Yes, and Egypt will announce it.”

In Jerusalem, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed the deal, saying he had agreed after consulting with President Barack Obama, but warned that more forceful action may be necessary if the ceasefire fails.

Israeli sources said despite a deal, the country would not lift its blockade of the Palestinian territory, which is run by Hamas movement.


Israel's Shortsighted Assassination: Hamas' Al-Jabari was working to PREVENT rocket attacks -- Puppet Masters -- Sott.net


hy? Israel's government has declared that the aim of the current strikes against Gaza is to rebuild deterrence so that no rockets will be fired on Israel. Israel's targeted killings of Hamas leaders in the past sent the Hamas leadership underground and prevented rocket attacks on Israel temporarily. According to Israeli leaders, deterrence will be achieved once again by targeting and killing military and political leaders in Gaza and hitting hard at Hamas's military infrastructure. But this policy has never been effective in the long term, even when the founder and spiritual leader of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, was killed by Israel. Hamas didn't lay down its guns then, and it won't stop firing rockets at Israel now without a cease-fire agreement.

When we were negotiating with Hamas to release Mr. Shalit, members of the Israeli team believed that Mr. Jabari wouldn't make a deal because holding Mr. Shalit was a kind of "life insurance policy." As long as Mr. Jabari held Mr. Shalit, Israelis believed, the Hamas leader knew he was safe. The Israeli government had a freer hand to kill Mr. Jabari after Mr. Shalit was released in October 2011. His insurance policy was linked to their assessment of the value of keeping him alive. This week, that policy expired.

I believe that Israel made a grave and irresponsible strategic error by deciding to kill Mr. Jabari. No, Mr. Jabari was not a man of peace; he didn't believe in peace with Israel and refused to have any direct contact with Israeli leaders and even nonofficials like me. My indirect dealings with Mr. Jabari were handled through my Hamas counterpart, Ghazi Hamad, the deputy foreign minister of Hamas, who had received Mr. Jabari's authorization to deal directly with me. Since Mr. Jabari took over the military wing of Hamas, the only Israeli who spoke with him directly was Mr. Shalit, who was escorted out of Gaza by Mr. Jabari himself. (It is important to recall that Mr. Jabari not only abducted Mr. Shalit, but he also kept him alive and ensured that he was cared for during his captivity.)


Comment: Shalit wasn't 'abducted'. He was captured.


Passing messages between the two sides, I was able to learn firsthand that Mr. Jabari wasn't just interested in a long-term cease-fire; he was also the person responsible for enforcing previous cease-fire understandings brokered by the Egyptian intelligence agency. Mr. Jabari enforced those cease-fires only after confirming that Israel was prepared to stop its attacks on Gaza. On the morning that he was killed, Mr. Jabari received a draft proposal for an extended cease-fire with Israel, including mechanisms that would verify intentions and ensure compliance. This draft was agreed upon by me and Hamas's deputy foreign minister, Mr. Hamad, when we met last week in Egypt.

The goal was to move beyond the patterns of the past. For years, it has been the same story: Israeli intelligence discovers information about an impending terrorist attack from Gaza. The Israeli Army takes pre-emptive action with an airstrike against the suspected terror cells, which are often made up of fighters from groups like Islamic Jihad, the Popular Resistance Committees or Salafi groups not under Hamas's control but functioning within its territory. These cells launch rockets into Israeli towns near Gaza, and they often miss their targets. The Israeli Air Force responds swiftly. The typical result is between 10 and 25 casualties in Gaza, zero casualties in Israel and huge amounts of property damage on both sides.

Other key Hamas leaders and members of the Shura Council, its senior decision-making body, supported a new cease-fire effort because they, like Mr. Jabari, understood the futility of successive rocket attacks against Israel that left no real damage on Israel and dozens of casualties in Gaza. Mr. Jabari was not prepared to give up the strategy of "resistance," meaning fighting Israel, but he saw the need for a new strategy and was prepared to agree to a long-term cease-fire.

This war is being presented in Israel, once again, as a war of "no choice." The people of Israel are rallying around the flag as would be expected anywhere in the world. The United States government has voiced its support of the Israeli operation by stating, "Israel has the full right to defend itself and protect its citizens." It certainly does, but we must ask whether there is another way to achieve the same goal without the use of force.

Israel has used targeted killings, ground invasions, drones, F-16s, economic siege and political boycott. The only thing it has not tried and tested is reaching an agreement (through third parties) for a long-term mutual cease-fire.
 
lone wolf
+3
#2
Who'll be poking the hornets nest? What will ever happen if peace gains a foothold and the Muddled East slips from top place in the evening news? Stay tuned....


I hope ... but I won't bet the farm on it.
 
Just the Facts
+2 / -1
#3
Almost two hours into the cease fire, Hamas celebrating by throwing a few projectiles across the border.
 
damngrumpy
#4
Its like setting the news on rewind another ceasefire to add to all the other cease fire's
Its time these people got down to talking about a formal peace treaty so all neighbours
can finally live in peace. I am afraid that won't happen any time soon.
 
CDNBear
+2 / -1
#5
Didn't take Hamas long to end that.
 
Goober
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Didn't take Hamas long to end that.

That is not on any news sites that I checked. From BBC- CNN- Our papers.
 
CDNBear
+4
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

That is not on any news sites that I checked. From BBC- CNN- Our papers.

Minutes before the deal took effect at 9 p.m. local time. (2 p.m. EDT) there was a spasm of Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli airstrikes, including one that killed a man minutes before the deadline. After 9 p.m., the airstrikes cease, but rocket fire continued, with at least 12 fired into Israel an hour into the truce, said police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.

Israel and Hamas agree to Gaza cease-fire - CBS News
 
Goober
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Minutes before the deal took effect at 9 p.m. local time. (2 p.m. EDT) there was a spasm of Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli airstrikes, including one that killed a man minutes before the deadline. After 9 p.m., the airstrikes cease, but rocket fire continued, with at least 12 fired into Israel an hour into the truce, said police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.

Israel and Hamas agree to Gaza cease-fire - CBS News

I would expect no reaction from Israel.
 
CDNBear
+3
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I would expect no reaction from Israel.

None as of yet. But it seems only one side is actually trying to honestly uphold their end of the bargain.
 
Goober
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

None as of yet. But it seems only one side is actually trying to honestly uphold their end of the bargain.

Well you have Islamic Nutbars groups that are trying to steal Hamas turf - against any deals with Israel - Not sure of all the details on the ceasefire but Hamas will have to address that. Then they address whether they will work again on the deal that almost happened for lifting the blockade. Hamas is itself split on this.
 
CDNBear
+3
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Hamas is itself split on this.

You mean there's actually a genocide and genocide light?
 
Goober
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

You mean there's actually a genocide and genocide light?

There are substantial elements within Hamas that are willing to cut a deal with Israel. Then there are the others that would never.
 
CDNBear
+2
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

There are substantial elements within Hamas that are willing to cut a deal with Israel. Then there are the others that would never.

How can there be peace between Israel and Palestinians when their leaders can't even agree to slaughter, or not to slaughter, or sort of slaughter?

This will split the vote in the election.

Election?
 
Risus
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

Almost two hours into the cease fire, Hamas celebrating by throwing a few projectiles across the border.

Why am I not surprised.
 
CDNBear
+3
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by RisusView Post

Why am I not surprised.

Because it happens every time.

But according to the genocidal apologists, Israel started it.
 
Goober
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

How can there be peace between Israel and Palestinians when their leaders can't even agree to slaughter, or not to slaughter, or sort of slaughter?

This will split the vote in the election.

Election?

The closer a person is to a problem sometime relates to how important the problem is. Hamas leaders that are safely tucked away in other countries are not the subject of being taken out while on a Sunday drive. And yes there are elements inside Gaza that do not want any sort of deal. Hamas may have to be ruthless. And they have that ability.
So it would not be easy - much like what the PLO went thru.

It all comes down to what the people want. The Arab Spring also impacted Hamas. But there has been a wing for lack of a better term that has been pushing for a deal for some time.

So yes it is possible-
Last edited by Goober; Nov 21st, 2012 at 06:58 PM..
 
Just the Facts
+3
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The closer a person is to a problem sometime relates to how important the problem is. Hamas leaders that are safely tucked away in other countries are not the subject of being taken out while on a Sunday drive. And yes there are elements inside Gaza that do not want any sort of deal. Hamas may have to be ruthless. And they have that ability.
So it would not be easy - much like what the PLO went thru.

It all comes down to what the people want. The Arab Spring also impacted Hamas. But there has been a wing for lack of a better term that has been pushing for a deal for some time.

So yes it is possible-

I'm sure you're right, but the practical diffuculty is that those pushing for a deal end up getting tied to the back of a motorcycle and dragged down the road with "collaborator" stapled to their chest. It's very challenging to make deals that stick, under those circumstances.
 
Goober
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

I'm sure you're right, but the practical diffuculty is that those pushing for a deal end up getting tied to the back of a motorcycle and dragged down the road with "collaborator" stapled to their chest. It's very challenging to make deals that stick, under those circumstances.

They almost had a deal prior to the last hostilities.
 
MHz
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

You mean there's actually a genocide and genocide light?

First Nation in North America was Genocide light, not that it is over by any means. Full genocide is when you lock people up and then start bombing them.
 
Goober
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

First Nation in North America was Genocide light, not that it is over by any means. Full genocide is when you lock people up and then start bombing them.

The same could be said of Israel from Independence till the 67 war.
 
CDNBear
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

First Nation in North America was Genocide light, not that it is over by any means. Full genocide is when you lock people up and then start bombing them.

This thread is about Hamas and their inability to uphold a truce.
 
Goober
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

This thread is about Hamas and their inability to uphold a truce.

Correct- I think if this progresses towards what was mentioned in the OP - a ceasefire- lifting of the blockade with independent monitors- Egypt to stop the weapons smuggling - Hamas stopping all groups from attacks- Israel to provide intelligence of an attack and Hamas to act upon it - Israel retains the right to act when the situation depends upon immediate action- we will see a minor civil war within. No how that turns out is up in the air. Though I think the ones that want a deal will win. But it will be bloody - and mistakes will happen and Israel will need to have patience.
 
darkbeaver
#23
Peace with Israel is an impossibility, the uttering of such an idea is insane. It's a long long way to the Euphrates, but they'll get there someday. hahahaaha
 
CDNBear
+2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Peace with Israel is an impossibility, the uttering of such an idea is insane.

Hamas has proven your words true, time and time again.
 
darkbeaver
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Hamas has proven your words true, time and time again.

Yep, and Eygpt and Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Lybia and Iran and well the list is too long to fit in this box.
 
MHz
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

This thread is about Hamas and their inability to uphold a truce.

Not really, it is a thread to smear Gaza and elevate Israel higher in morals that she is in reality, nothing new for this forum.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The same could be said of Israel from Independence till the 67 war.

Genocide, light or otherwise, can be life itself but loss of property and land would also be part of that term would it not?

Notice how much better off Gaza now is compared to 1967-1987 and then Hamas entering from 1988-2012?

OCCUPATION 101 Zionism Full Documentary - YouTube

 
CDNBear
+4
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Yep, and Eygpt and Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Lybia and Iran and well the list is too long to fit in this box.

It is, and I'm so glad you were able to admit it.

Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Not really...

Yes really.

Quote:

... it is a thread to smear Gaza...

Nope. Just Hamas, because they deserve it.

Quote:

... nothing new for this forum.

Actually, the norm is the demonization of Israel by the genocidal apologists and terrorist supporters.
 
MHz
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Actually, the norm is the demonization of Israel by the genocidal apologists and terrorist supporters.

So it would appear that women and children and rescue workers are terrorists / genocidal apologists in your eyes, not a huge surprise or even a little one actually.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=506195522739165
 
CDNBear
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

So it would appear that women and children and rescue workers are terrorists / genocidal apologists in your eyes...

No it wouldn't. Learn how to read.

Quote:

... not a huge surprise or even a little one actually.

Neither is your idiotic post.
 
MHz
#30
Then it must be all the dead people in the vid. I think not, just another example of IDF immorality on the prowl. How desperate do you have to be to run a PR unit if their cause was so clearly moral.

IDF Facebook-Twitter Commando - Defense/Middle East - News - Israel National News
 
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