Marines and Honour


CDNBear
+1
#271
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

I probably would have infuriated you with my passionate dedication to saving Palestinians from Israel about 8 years ago.

I don't get infuriated, I'd just start treating you like I treat EAO.

Quote:

LOL There's a lot of people who get dragged into the anti-Israeli mentality who, if they knew the history and issues, wouldn't. On the other hand, the hatred towards Zionists is often a sign there's far more going on. I remember very early on learning on forums from very patient posters about Zionism and the fact there there's actually so many variations of Zionsim and realizing too that the people who used the word to describe Israelis were the most anti-Semitic-driven. Well, the worst are the ones who describe Israel as the "Zionist Entity". Those are scary!

As scary as the ones that claim Israel is an apartheid and pure Jewish state, despite the reality of it.

Quote:

Still, in those days I was going through a very difficult time in my personal life, plus I had a misguided need for much of my life to save the underdog, save the victims and the helpless and so it wasn't too hard for the propaganda to pull me in. There's all kinds of stuff that goes into how people form their views and why they fight for a certain cause quite often. It's not always rational and values-based. I like to believe people can change their views.

I used to think Israel could do no wrong. Propoganda and a persoanl bias, goes both ways.

I've followed your attempt to engage EAO in a reasoned debate. As so many before you, you came to the simple conclusion, he's full of sh!t.

His sole purpose here is to demonize Israel, and nothing more.

I knew you'd catch on eventually.
 
Goober
#272
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

I probably would have infuriated you with my passionate dedication to saving Palestinians from Israel about 8 years ago. LOL There's a lot of people who get dragged into the anti-Israeli mentality who, if they knew the history and issues, wouldn't. On the other hand, the hatred towards Zionists is often a sign there's far more going on. I remember very early on learning on forums from very patient posters about Zionism and the fact there there's actually so many variations of Zionsim and realizing too that the people who used the word to describe Israelis were the most anti-Semitic-driven. Well, the worst are the ones who describe Israel as the "Zionist Entity". Those are scary!

Still, in those days I was going through a very difficult time in my personal life, plus I had a misguided need for much of my life to save the underdog, save the victims and the helpless and so it wasn't too hard for the propaganda to pull me in. There's all kinds of stuff that goes into how people form their views and why they fight for a certain cause quite often. It's not always rational and values-based. I like to believe people can change their views.

Hatred for Zionists and Isreal is usually a cover for hating Jews. And we have a few here.
 
oleoleolanda
#273
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Oleo
What he does is drop the facts and cherry picks what fits his narrow minded racist opinion of Jews and Israel.
Every time a hard question is asked, he runs off, heads for bed and turns on the night light. He equates hard questions, facts with the bogeyman that still chases him.

I recognize this tactic too. It's funny how it the same tactics are used by people all over the Internet and in real-life discussions with this issue.

It's good people ask the hard questions. Sometimes it will make the person Google, read, investigate... Sometimes, not. But it's worth the effort for those who will.

I actually feel so grateful for all the people who debated me with hard, hard questions.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Hatred for Zionists and Isreal is usually a cover for hating Jews. And we have a few here.

Yes, that's true but as you have said, there's a lot of people who fall prey to the propaganda and don't understand that indeed they are falling into anti-Semitism.

Actually, it's quite worrisome, really. I mean, there were a lot of Nazi Germans who just went along because they fell for the propaganda. The Nazis counted on them being complicit. Racism spread through ignorance, not just hatred.

[
Quote:

QUOTE=CDNBear;1536092]I don't get infuriated, I'd just start treating you like I
treat EAO.

LOL!

Quote:


As scary as the ones that claim Israel is an apartheid and pure Jewish state,
despite the reality of it.





I used to think Israel could do no wrong. Propoganda and a persoanl bias,
goes both ways.

True on both counts.

Quote:


I've followed your attempt to engage EAO in a reasoned debate. As so many
before you, you came to the simple conclusion, he's full of sh!t.





His sole purpose here is to demonize Israel, and nothing more.





I knew you'd catch on eventually.

[/QUOTE]

I think you're right, unfortunately.
 
earth_as_one
#274
Would anyone care to defend or condemn these War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity?

1) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to defend artillery and tank positions
2) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to block bullets and set off booby traps.
3) Use of civilians including children to search for explosives
4) Use of civilians including children to search for enemy positions and draw enemy fire
5) Deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure for purely collective punishment reasons without any military purpose:
- hospitals, schools and universities, police and fire stations, mosques and churches, government buildings
- sewage and water distribution systems
- sewage and water treatment systems
- food production, storage and distribution
- electricity production and distribution
- fuel storage and distribution
6) Deliberately attacking ambulance drivers, paramedics, firemen and police and innocent civilians. including women and children.
7) Ethnic cleansing
8 ) Interference with the delivery of international medical and food aid, causing death from easily treatable diseases and food insecurity
9) Deliberately attacking UN and NGO aid convoys.
 
Goober
#275
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Would anyone care to defend or condemn these War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity?

1) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to defend artillery and tank positions
2) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to block bullets and set off booby traps.
3) Use of civilians including children to search for explosives
4) Use of civilians including children to search for enemy positions and draw enemy fire
5) Deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure for purely collective punishment reasons without any military purpose:
- hospitals, schools and universities, police and fire stations, mosques and churches, government buildings
- sewage and water distribution systems
- sewage and water treatment systems
- food production, storage and distribution
- electricity production and distribution
- fuel storage and distribution
6) Deliberately attacking ambulance drivers, paramedics, firemen and police and innocent civilians.
7) Ethnic cleansing
8 ) Interference with the delivery of international medical and food aid, causing death from easily treatable diseases and food insecurity
9) Deliberately attacking UN and NGO aid convoys.

Would you care to explain what a Non Violent Pacifist is? Till then I will only keep on asking the same question. Perhaps others may do the same.
 
earth_as_one
#276
I see my post above shut everyone up except a troll, which doesn't count. Anyone care to demand proof of a specific claim?
 
JLM
+2
#277
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I see my post above shut everyone up except a troll, which doesn't count. Anyone care to demand proof of a specific claim?

Either that or they wanted to see you go away!
 
DaSleeper
#278
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Either that or they wanted to see you go away!

 
earth_as_one
#279
Yes crimes against humanity and war crimes are hilarious when Palestinians (non-human terrorists) are the victims. Yet 9/11 was a serious tragedy and not funny at all.

Here's a video for your amusement:

israeli war crimes against Palestinians - YouTube

 
L Gilbert
#280
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Would anyone care to defend or condemn these War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity?

1) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to defend artillery and tank positions
2) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to block bullets and set off booby traps.
3) Use of civilians including children to search for explosives
4) Use of civilians including children to search for enemy positions and draw enemy fire
5) Deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure for purely collective punishment reasons without any military purpose:
- hospitals, schools and universities, police and fire stations, mosques and churches, government buildings
- sewage and water distribution systems
- sewage and water treatment systems
- food production, storage and distribution
- electricity production and distribution
- fuel storage and distribution
6) Deliberately attacking ambulance drivers, paramedics, firemen and police and innocent civilians. including women and children.
7) Ethnic cleansing
8 ) Interference with the delivery of international medical and food aid, causing death from easily treatable diseases and food insecurity
9) Deliberately attacking UN and NGO aid convoys.

Seems to me that that sort of stuff happens on both sides. I have to ask, so if the roles were reversed, would anything have changed in that respect? I don't think it would.
 
CDNBear
+1
#281
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Yes crimes against humanity and war crimes are hilarious when Palestinians (non-human terrorists) are the victims. Yet 9/11 was a serious tragedy and not funny at all.

Here's a video for your amusement:

israeli war crimes against Palestinians - YouTube

 
Goober
#282
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I see my post above shut everyone up except a troll, which doesn't count. Anyone care to demand proof of a specific claim?

Well for my reply I will quote Shakespeare
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

Knowing you need help I will also provide the interpretation:
Meant to say that the names of things do not matter, only what things are.

To you I am a troll to others I am not. To you I ask hard question, but you cannot answer and run for the door.

Another new member tore your so called thinking apart word by word, phrase by phrase. Or as I prefer to say - Ripped you a new one.

Would you care to explain what a Non Violent Pacifist is? Till then I will only keep on asking the same question. Perhaps others may do the same.
 
CDNBear
+1
#283
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

I don't think it would.

I think there would. There would be no Israeli's left.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Would you care to explain what a Non Violent Pacifist is?

Gh. Certainly not EAO.
 
L Gilbert
+3
#284
How'd this get from being about marines and honor to another of the few hundred threads on Pallies and Izzies?
 
Goober
#285
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I think there would. There would be no Israeli's left.

Gh. Certainly not EAO.

Agreed that GH is a Pacifist. But EO has to add a phrase that turns it into what he and his ilk use much to often, pure BS. A non violent pacifist. Is there such a person as a violent pacifist?? Only in EAO's world.
 
DaSleeper
#286
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

How'd this get from being about marines and honor to another of the few hundred threads on Pallies and Izzies?

That's his Shtick
 
ironsides
#287
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I see my post above shut everyone up except a troll, which doesn't count. Anyone care to demand proof of a specific claim?

Your post is trolling.
 
DaSleeper
+1
#288
Israel is to EAO what the Conservative government is to Mentalfloss.......
 
L Gilbert
+5
#289
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

That's his Shtick

Well, he should put his schtick back in his schpants, schzip up, and schtick to the schtopic.
 
Goober
+2
#290
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Israel is to EAO what the Conservative government is to Mentalfloss.......

EAO is hateful -MF is not - MF does make points, rebuts, you get an answer. EAO - well scared of the dark
 
earth_as_one
#291
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Well, he should put his schtick back in his schpants, schzip up, and schtick to the schtopic.

I agree
 
Goober
#292
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I agree

How about taking me into WB - List your grievances and we can take it from there.
 
oleoleolanda
#293
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Would anyone care to defend or condemn these War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity?

1) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to defend artillery and tank positions
2) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to block bullets and set off booby traps.
3) Use of civilians including children to search for explosives
4) Use of civilians including children to search for enemy positions and draw enemy fire
5) Deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure for purely collective punishment reasons without any military purpose:
- hospitals, schools and universities, police and fire stations, mosques and churches, government buildings
- sewage and water distribution systems
- sewage and water treatment systems
- food production, storage and distribution
- electricity production and distribution
- fuel storage and distribution
6) Deliberately attacking ambulance drivers, paramedics, firemen and police and innocent civilians. including women and children.
7) Ethnic cleansing
8 ) Interference with the delivery of international medical and food aid, causing death from easily treatable diseases and food insecurity
9) Deliberately attacking UN and NGO aid convoys.

Earth_as_one, is that all you want, condemnation or defence? You sound like the UN. A condemnation here, a resolution of disapproval there, everyone feels good about themselves, a job well done and... no real solution or change anywhere.

Or do you think something should be done about these war crimes? If so, where do you start? Are you willing to go through each point into more detail, who is doing it, what's behind it and what can be done to stop it?
 
gerryh
+2
#294
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

Earth_as_one, is that all you want, condemnation or defence? You sound like the UN. A condemnation here, a resolution of disapproval there, everyone feels good about themselves, a job well done and... no real solution or change anywhere.

Or do you think something should be done about these war crimes? If so, where do you start? Are you willing to go through each point into more detail, who is doing it, what's behind it and what can be done to stop it?


He is stating that the entire list he made are committed by Israel.
 
earth_as_one
#295
All four US Marines seen in a video apparently urinating on dead Afghans...
 
oleoleolanda
+1
#296
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

He is stating that the entire list he made are committed by Israel.

Hence the demand for condemnation rather than solutions. Once again, it would be a case of no concern or desire to end real crimes but rather to demonize, no matter what the truth is. In fact, any attempt to examine the alllegations would be rejected as that would defeat the purpose.
 
gerryh
#297
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

Hence the demand for condemnation rather than solutions. Once again, it would be a case of no concern or desire to end real crimes but rather to demonize, no matter what the truth is. In fact, any attempt to examine the alllegations would be rejected as that would defeat the purpose.


Exactley, the fact that the majority of his list can also be applied to the Palestinians get's glossed over.


and eao.... I'm also looking for an explanation of your "non violent pacifist" label.
 
darkbeaver
#298
Condemnation of the criminal nuclear rogue state of Israel is the right thing to do. Those marines are probably heros there.
 
earth_as_one
#299
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Exactley, the fact that the majority of his list can also be applied to the Palestinians get's glossed over...

I disgree that I gloss over Palestinian war crimes. I have listed them repeatedly on this forum:
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

....
Palestinian war crimes:

1) deliberately firing missiles and mortars at Israeli civilians.
2) Holding a single Israeli soldier prisoner without allowing them to be seen by the Red Cross
3) Suicide bombers against civilian targets.... FYI: the last incident was about a decade ago and most Palestinian militant groups have sworn off the practice for Public Relations reasons.

Your turn. Please list 3 war crimes Zionists have committed in the last 10 years. Off the top of my head I can think of at least a dozen. I predict you won't list one.

I recognize both sides war crimes. Meanwhile not a single Israeli apologist can condemn these war crimes:

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Would anyone care to defend or condemn these War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity?

1) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to defend artillery and tank positions
2) Use of civilians including women and children as human shields to block bullets and set off booby traps.
3) Use of civilians including children to search for explosives
4) Use of civilians including children to search for enemy positions and draw enemy fire
5) Deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure for purely collective punishment reasons without any military purpose:
- hospitals, schools and universities, police and fire stations, mosques and churches, government buildings
- sewage and water distribution systems
- sewage and water treatment systems
- food production, storage and distribution
- electricity production and distribution
- fuel storage and distribution
6) Deliberately attacking ambulance drivers, paramedics, firemen and police and innocent civilians. including women and children.
7) Ethnic cleansing
8 ) Interference with the delivery of international medical and food aid, causing death from easily treatable diseases and food insecurity
9) Deliberately attacking UN and NGO aid convoys.

Who is glossing over war crimes again???? Israeli apologists can't admit a single Israeli war crime or crime against humanity, while I can list both sides war crimes. Perhaps you'd like to explain why you believe Israeli apologists aren't glossing over Israeli war crimes and that I am?.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

.... I'm also looking for an explanation of your "non violent pacifist" label.

Seriously? Why? Do the terms seem contradictory to you?

Nonviolence has two (closely related) meanings. (1) It can refer, first, to a general philosophy (external - login to view) of abstention from violence because of moral or religious principle (e.g. "She believes in nonviolence.") (2) It can refer to the behaviour of people using nonviolent action (external - login to view) (e.g. "The demonstrators maintained their nonviolence.")

Pacifism is the opposition to war (external - login to view) and violence (external - login to view). The term "pacifism" was coined by the French peace campaigner Émile Arnaud (1864 - 1921) and adopted by other peace activists at the tenth Universal Peace Congress in Glasgow (external - login to view) in 1901.

I oppose war and violence. I believe in non-violent means to resist oppression and injustice. I support nonviolent efforts to gain freedom and justice. For example:
bilin-village.org | Discover Bil'in (external - login to view)

BTW, I've posted the above several times.

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Seems to me that that sort of stuff happens on both sides. I have to ask, so if the roles were reversed, would anything have changed in that respect? I don't think it would.

LG, its highly doubtful that Palestinians have sent bulldozers and heavy equipment into Israel to destroy war and sewage treatment facilities and distribution systems. But if you think otherwise then please back up your opinion with references. Can you provide any evidence supporting your belief that Palestinians have used Israeli children to search for explosives? Do you really believe that Palestinians interfere with international food and medical humanitarian aid destined for Israel? How are they doing that? or are you too just glossing over Israeli war crimes?

If Palestinians committed the same war crimes as Israelis I'd have no problems condemning those war crimes too, just as I have condemned war crimes that Palestinians have actually committed.
 
oleoleolanda
+1
#300
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I disgree that I gloss over Palestinian war crimes. I have listed them repeatedly on this forum:


I recognize both sides war crimes. Meanwhile not a single Israeli apologist can condemn these war crimes:


Who is glossing over war crimes again???? Israeli apologists can't admit a single Israeli war crime or crime against humanity, while I can list both sides war crimes. Perhaps you'd like to explain why you believe Israeli apologists aren't glossing over Israeli war crimes and that I am?.

Seriously? Why? Do the terms seem contradictory to you?

Nonviolence has two (closely related) meanings. (1) It can refer, first, to a general philosophy (external - login to view) of abstention from violence because of moral or religious principle (e.g. "She believes in nonviolence.") (2) It can refer to the behaviour of people using nonviolent action (external - login to view) (e.g. "The demonstrators maintained their nonviolence.")

Pacifism is the opposition to war (external - login to view) and violence (external - login to view). The term "pacifism" was coined by the French peace campaigner Émile Arnaud (1864 - 1921) and adopted by other peace activists at the tenth Universal Peace Congress in Glasgow (external - login to view) in 1901.

I oppose war and violence. I believe in non-violent means to resist oppression and injustice. I support nonviolent efforts to gain freedom and justice. For example:
bilin-village.org | Discover Bil'in (external - login to view)

BTW, I've posted the above several times.



LG, its highly doubtful that Palestinians have sent bulldozers and heavy equipment into Israel to destroy war and sewage treatment facilities and distribution systems. But if you think otherwise then please back up your opinion with references. Can you provide any evidence supporting your belief that Palestinians have used Israeli children to search for explosives? Do you really believe that Palestinians interfere with international food and medical humanitarian aid destined for Israel? How are they doing that? or are you too just glossing over Israeli war crimes?

If Palestinians committed the same war crimes as Israelis I'd have no problems condemning those war crimes too, just as I have condemned war crimes that Palestinians have actually committed.


I condemn all war crimes and anyone who commits them, therefore, I stand on moral highground.

In fact, I condemn all alleged war crimes, whether they can be backed up by fact or they are merely twisted propaganda, therefore I stand on the highest moral highground, and any argument that I make is more humane and superior in every way to that of those who don't stand on the same ground as me.

Based largely on propaganda and false allegations, I cleverly take accounting of war crimes committed by both sides, in order to present myself as objective and as concerned and totally against war crimes, and then place my support on the side which I have falsely portrayed as the one with the least war crimes. Some would think that in doing this, I actually don't give a hoot about war crimes, have no interest in ensuring the facts and in finding ways to stop any real crimes from being committed, but instead see them as tactics in my passionate cause to make the side I'm against look more evil than the side I support.

Er... well, that is how you come across in any case, Earth.

Sorry, war crimes are serious issues that have to be addressed and stopped because they have a huge toll on human life. Serious, in-depth examination of the alleged crimes, of the facts, is necessary, not to win an argument, but to work on prevention and accountability. Treating them as playdough to win arguments is literally saying you don't give a hoot about real war crimes or the people whose lives are lost or devastated by them.
 

Similar Threads

52
10 Marines killed near Falluja
by moghrabi | Dec 7th, 2005
6
US Probes Killing of Iraqi by Marines
by Vanni Fucci | Aug 24th, 2005
1
AMONGST THE MARINES by Steven Preece
by jazzper | May 23rd, 2005
no new posts