Montreal family kills daughters


damngrumpy
#1
Montreal family couldn't bear the "treachery" of their three teen-aged daughters having boyfriends, so they drowned them and the father's first wife, pushing a car into a canal and staging the scene to look like an implausible accident, court heard Thursday.
Days after the bodies were found the father was recorded saying, "There is nothing more valuable than our honour."

Tooba Mohammad Yahya, 41, her husband Mohammad Shafia, 58, and their son, Hamed Mohammad Shafia, 20, are each charged with four counts of first-degree murder.

Three teenage Shafia sisters, Zainab, 19, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13, along with Shafia's first wife, Rona Amir Mohammad, 50, were found dead inside a submerged black Nissan Sentra discovered June 30, 2009 in the Rideau Canal. The family had stopped in Kingston on their way home from a trip to Niagara Falls.

An expert will be called to testify about honour killings and how in extreme cases, killing can be seen in some cultures as a way to restore honour to a family, the Crown attorney said Thursday at the outset of the trial. Disobedience by a female member of the family can cause shame and taint family honour, she said.

Laurie Lacelle quoted police wiretaps made surreptitiously in the days after the deaths that show the family's concern for their honour.

"Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows, nothing is more dear to me than my honour," Shafia said. "Let's leave our destiny to God, and may God never make me, you or your mother honourless...There is nothing more valuable than our honour."

When police began to suspect the three were involved in the deaths, they told the family they were examining a camera near the scene for clues, in the hopes this would prompt discussion among the Shafias in their car, which the police had bugged. They scoffed and immediately suspected police were bluffing.

"If they had had any proof they would have come for us a long time ago," Shafia said.

Another wiretap recorded Shafia and Yahya talking about their daughters 20 days after they died.

"If we remain alive...we have no tension thinking our daughter is in the arms of this or that boy, this or that man," Shafia said on a wiretap. "God's curse on them for generations. May the devil...on their graves. Is that what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a *****?"

"There can be no treachery, no violation more than this," Lacelle quoted Shafia as saying on the wiretaps. "They committed treason from beginning to end. They betrayed humankind. They betrayed Islam...They betrayed everything."

The family, originally from Afghanistan, was in turmoil before the deaths. The eldest daughter, Zainab Shafia, had run away and both of the other two girls had repeatedly told authorities they were afraid and wanted to leave the family home. Shafia and Hamed controlled the home, making the rules and doling out punishment, sometimes violent, Lacelle said.

Zainab had run away from home and her mother convinced her to come home by saying she would let her marry her boyfriend, Lacelle said. But when none of her boyfriend's family showed up to the wedding, Yahya and Hamed Shafia forced Zainab to get it annulled the same day.

Sahar, 17, had a boyfriend and the parents suspected 13-year-old Geeti was also seeing a boy, Lacelle said. Their younger siblings would report to the father and eldest brother when Sahar, 17, was speaking to boys at school. Sahar was suicidal, Lacelle said.

But the troubles within the family weren't exclusively about boys. Zainab and Sahar were resisting their family's urging to wear the hijab, the Crown attorney said. The two sisters loved clothes and dressed fashionably, she said. Geeti had been caught shoplifting, was failing most of her classes and got sent home from school for wearing inappropriate clothing.

Ten days before the girls and Mohammad were found dead, a Google search was conducted on a laptop registered to Shafia and used by his son Hamed, Lacelle said. The words entered were, "where to commit a murder."

Five days before that someone had searched for "facts and documentaries on murders," Lacelle said. Earlier, someone had Googled "can a prisoner have control over their real estate?"

Rona Amir Mohammad was Shafia's first wife, but he married Yahya when it became apparent Mohammad couldn't have children. She helped raise the children and loved them dearly, Lacelle said, but she wrote in a diary that Yahya treated her poorly and Shafia beat her. She wanted to leave, but told family members that she was afraid if she left Shafia would kill her, Lacelle said.




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Are we going to continue to allow this sort of thing to go on in our country or are
we going to adopt a politically correct position? Honour killings must be ended
and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
WLDB
+6
#2  Top Rated Post
Odd that they think there is honour in killing family members.
 
damngrumpy
+2
#3
The come to Canada for a new way of life enjoying freedom, and when they get
here they kill family members that want to exercise their new found freedom.
This is a crazy belief system. If it were in any other culture in this country the
family services branch would remove the children from the home but not here
they would rather fish them out of the rivers and ditches and wooded areas
around their home. What has happened to the legal system in our country?
Honour killings are murder first degree murder and the crown should not back
down one inch on this situation.
 
talloola
+1
#4
he gives dishonour to the word honour. A shabby man who hides behind his religion, is controlled by his

religion, and kills the most precious people, his family.

What a distorted look at life, and it is worrisome to know people like that walk this earth.

We are human beings, with the ability to think intelligently, and some give that up and choose

to be in the clasp of twisted rules, how sad and sickening.
 
damngrumpy
#5
And we let this vision of the world come and live among us. This goes against
every fibre of the Canadian sense of being and yet our immigration officials do
not find out who is who. Oh I know its difficult but if the officials did their home
work they could sort out those who are of character and those who are not.
Yes it means it will take longer so what?
The other thing that upsets me is, just because we let someone with merit come
here, it should not mean their whole family should be given a pass. Immigrants
should all be allowed entry by their own merit not because they are a relative of
their uncle or mother or sister.
I believe if there are incidents of punishment or harsh treatment for wanting to
become part of Canadian society the children should be removed from the home.
Oh I know religious freedom. But this is not about religious freedom its about the
fundamental rights of the person being controlled unjustly.
We must begin to deal with these issues and first degree murder charges are the
first step. All honour killings should automatically have the life without parole Claus
issued to ensure they never see the light of day again.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The come to Canada for a new way of life enjoying freedom, and when they get
here they kill family members that want to exercise their new found freedom.
This is a crazy belief system. If it were in any other culture in this country the
family services branch would remove the children from the home but not here
they would rather fish them out of the rivers and ditches and wooded areas
around their home. What has happened to the legal system in our country?
Honour killings are murder first degree murder and the crown should not back
down one inch on this situation.

The legal system is working, people are being charged. Multiculturalism causes this, more precisely bad multicutluralism because it is not in a Canadian context. These sorts of crimes are caused by bad multiculturalism. Bad multiculturalism allows immigrants to come to Canada and retain their traditional culture, which is undemocratic, unequal and permits vendettas. Like what they have in Asia, which is where these people are from. But you also get vendettas in Europe, Africa, and pre-Columbian America.

We can't control what the world does, we can only control, to a degree, what occurs in Canada. And due to politeness, shame, guilt, disinterest, we are letting immigrants have too much freedom to be the way they were in their former country. A hands off policy has consequences too.
 
talloola
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

The legal system is working, people are being charged. Multiculturalism causes this, more precisely bad multicutluralism because it is not in a Canadian context. These sorts of crimes are caused by bad multiculturalism. Bad multiculturalism allows immigrants to come to Canada and retain their traditional culture, which is undemocratic, unequal and permits vendettas. Like what they have in Asia, which is where these people are from. But you also get vendettas in Europe, Africa, and pre-Columbian America.

We can't control what the world does, we can only control, to a degree, what occurs in Canada. And due to politeness, shame, guilt, disinterest, we are letting immigrants have too much freedom to be the way they were in their former country. A hands off policy has consequences too.


why weren't these daughters given assistance when they went to the authorities for help, because they were
afraid and knew their lives were in danger.
 
bill barilko
#8
They murder their entertainers too for singing the wrong songs
 
dumpthemonarchy
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

why weren't these daughters given assistance when they went to the authorities for help, because they were
afraid and knew their lives were in danger.

The police aren't necessarily clued into honour killings from third world countries, and since no crime had yet been committed, they couldn't do much. Cop shows have this all the time.
 
In Between Man
#10
Still think Islam is compatible with western values?

Sign the Petition to Stop Muslim immigration to Canada (external - login to view)
 
TenPenny
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

And we let this vision of the world come and live among us. This goes against
every fibre of the Canadian sense of being and yet our immigration officials do
not find out who is who.


Actually, no, we don't let this vision live among us; that's why these idiots are on trial for murder.
 
SLM
#12
I really wish the press would stop reporting these "Honour Killings". Why can't they just have a nice big black and white headline that reads "Murder".

It is what it is, there is no damned honour in it. I hope they get life.
 
TenPenny
#13
Actually, calling them 'honour killings' makes it worse than murder; it's the case of deluded, misguided people who believe that there is some form of honour in killing your own family for wanting to be normal.

Tossing these people in a sewage lagoon would not be a bad thing.
 
55Mercury
#14
If ever a stoning death was warranted...
 
DaSleeper
#15
All y'all in this thread are hate mongers and the PC police has all of your names and you will shortly be contacted to appear in front of a HRC tribunal....so there!
 
petros
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

Still think Islam is compatible with western values?

Sign the Petition to Stop Muslim immigration to Canada (external - login to view)

Can we put the kibosh on the Mormosexuals and Atonement at the same time?
 
wulfie68
+2
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

Still think Islam is compatible with western values?

No fundamentalist religion is compatible with Western values, including Christianity. Fundamentalists are all about the Church dictating, not the individual choosing how to act, what to say, etc. I know some like to point to our "Christian forefathers", but the true roots of our governments, the Athenian democracies and Roman republics were polytheistic or "pagan". The "period of enlightenment" was largely influenced by the Crusaders interactions with Muslims, Jews and Eastern Orthodox Christians in the holy lands after centuries of feudal domination reinforced by theocratic tyrants from Rome.

Moderation is the key to western values, not a specific religious dogma or its exclusion. The problem with Islam is that there are a lot of fundamentalists making noise via actions like the family in this case, drowning out the moderates, but that also holds true for Christianity to an extent as well.
 
TenPenny
+2
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

Still think Islam is compatible with western values?

You're confusing all of Islam with nutcase *******s. There are ******* Christians, too. They believe that killing people is right.

There are *******s in every culture and religion. Not all muslims behave this way.
 
EagleSmack
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

And we let this vision of the world come and live among us. This goes against
every fibre of the Canadian sense of being and yet our immigration officials do
not find out who is who. Oh I know its difficult but if the officials did their home
work they could sort out those who are of character and those who are not.
Yes it means it will take longer so what?
The other thing that upsets me is, just because we let someone with merit come
here, it should not mean their whole family should be given a pass. Immigrants
should all be allowed entry by their own merit not because they are a relative of
their uncle or mother or sister.
I believe if there are incidents of punishment or harsh treatment for wanting to
become part of Canadian society the children should be removed from the home.
Oh I know religious freedom. But this is not about religious freedom its about the
fundamental rights of the person being controlled unjustly.
We must begin to deal with these issues and first degree murder charges are the
first step. All honour killings should automatically have the life without parole Claus
issued to ensure they never see the light of day again.

Down here this would be considered right wing talk. The US Liberals would be VERY upset with you talking like this and would most likely shout you down if you had a public forum.

That is why I laugh when you say a left wing Yank would be considered a right wing Canadian.
 
petros
#20
What's the harm in cults? (external - login to view)
 
TenPenny
#21
That proves that we shouldn't allow Mormons to 'live among us', I guess.
 
damngrumpy
#22
Fundamentalism is the belief that everything said or written is literal. We are also
confusing religion with customs in many cases. The events that happened were
brought about from a tribal way of thinking instead of a societal approach to the
problems of life.
In tribal societies its all about the honour of the family while in society we realize
that because a family member does something bad it is not the entire family that is
bad. Education is a prime game changer here except for the fact that the mentality
is so ingrained it will take generations of education to change the thought process.

This was never intended to be part of multiculturalism it has become an unintended
consequence though. We should let people come here and practice their faith, we
should allow those living here all their lives to practice their faith. There is one other
condition that should apply to all.

You can practice your faith as long as those practices conform with the laws of the land

In other words you cannot kill your children for your own or religious reasons
You cannot force them to marry anyone they don't want to
you cannot beat them to a bloody pulp to satisfy the dictates of the religion

Yes all people believers, and non believers, fundamentalists and moderates and all
citizens cannot hide behind their beliefs while committing crimes against others or
the state.
Eaglesmack sometimes speaking from the right wing perspective is quite alright if the
situation calls for it. I myself admittedly speak more from what I call the left but I
also recognize there are two sides to everything.
We have to take and maintain a firm stand that is was First Degree Murder and nothing
less will satisfy the courts or the Canadian people.
 
EagleSmack
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Eaglesmack sometimes speaking from the right wing perspective is quite alright if the
situation calls for it. I myself admittedly speak more from what I call the left but I
also recognize there are two sides to everything.
We have to take and maintain a firm stand that is was First Degree Murder and nothing
less will satisfy the courts or the Canadian people.

So you'd be more like a centrist here in the US and not a liberal. I am just saying that we're a lot more alike than some like to admit, including yourself.

Except in Hockey that is.
 
DurkaDurka
+1
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

So you'd be more like a centrist here in the US and not a liberal. I am just saying that we're a lot more alike than some like to admit, including yourself.

Except in Hockey that is.

and the whole 'grits' thing lmao
 
EagleSmack
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

and the whole 'grits' thing lmao

Grits isn't much of a New England fare either.
 
Mowich
+1
#26
Guilty of 1rst Degree Murder.

CTV just reported that the jury delivered the verdict. Will try and find a link.

www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01...n_1228859.html (external - login to view)
Last edited by Mowich; Jan 29th, 2012 at 02:15 PM..
 
#juan
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by MowichView Post

Guilty of 1rst Degree Murder.

CTV just reported that the jury delivered the verdict. Will try and find a link.


That is what the jury thought about their damned honour.
 
Mowich
+1
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post


That is what the jury thought about their damned honour.

So right, juan. It took the jury only two days to decide on the verdict. Of course, the defense will now appeal the verdict but with such a strong case for the prosecution and with such overwhelming evidence of guilt, the three murderers will surely spend the rest of their lives exactly where they belong - behind bars.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

The legal system is working, people are being charged. Multiculturalism causes this, more precisely bad multicutluralism because it is not in a Canadian context. These sorts of crimes are caused by bad multiculturalism. Bad multiculturalism allows immigrants to come to Canada and retain their traditional culture, which is undemocratic, unequal and permits vendettas. Like what they have in Asia, which is where these people are from. But you also get vendettas in Europe, Africa, and pre-Columbian America.

Bullshyte. Multiculturalism is neither bad nor good. It is people that are too boneheaded to accept that there are other countries that have standards for behavior. They think they can come here and not adapt to standards here, but keep their own.

Quote:

We can't control what the world does, we can only control, to a degree, what occurs in Canada. And due to politeness, shame, guilt, disinterest, we are letting immigrants have too much freedom to be the way they were in their former country. A hands off policy has consequences too.

Nonsense. Have you any idea what is in the immigration courses that people have to pass before becoming Canadian citizens? Have you any idea how deeply some people's religions, politics, etc. are that they think can ride over Canadian standards?
 
Ron in Regina
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by MowichView Post

So right, juan. It took the jury only two days to decide on the verdict. Of course, the defense will now appeal the verdict but with such a strong case for the prosecution and with such overwhelming evidence of guilt, the three murderers will surely spend the rest of their lives exactly where they belong - behind bars.

You'd have to define "the rest of their lives"....but that's a different topic.

This can & should send a clear message regarding "honour" murders, but
I can see appeals coming on this, and the finger of racism (or religionism,
or whatever...) being thrown out. Maybe condemnation from the U.N. about
the evils of Canadians in general for being non-inclusive of other cultures,
ect....
 

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