#871
Re: Israel...
Feb 10th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch
Yeah, peace for land. What kind of a deal is that?Israel has been offered peace? Has it not?
Israel...
Free Thinker
#872
Re: Israel...
Feb 10th, 2009
I'm all in favour of a two state solution, providing the temple on the dome is replaced with the jewish temple.
Free Thinker
#874
Re: Israel...
Feb 10th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch
I'm waiting for something bright from you, sweetie pie....Wolf, China-Do you have anything intelligent to say?
Conservative
#875
Re: Israel...
Feb 10th, 2009
After Barak opened up serious talks on a two-state solution, there was a time of relative peace, a time of hope in both Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.
it is true the Palrstinians were not offered everything, it is true that Israel certainly operated and negotiated from a position of strength, but the Palestinians were offered a nation........and the common people on both sides looked at the prospect of peace with joy and anticipation......but it got, to say the least, bogged down in the details......
One of the major details was Arafat's fear that his corruption would be exposed, that the world would be made aware of the BILLIONS !!!! of dollars he stole from his people......that he would become a pariah, or worse yet, a joke......so instead of dealing in good faith....he called out for a second intifada, and hope was dashed.
Follow that by the Palestinian peoples' choice of genocidal Hamas over corrupt Fatah, the failure of the unilateral withdrawal Israel made from Gaza, forcing settlers out as well, and the continuing, never-ending violence.....and Israelis have given up on peace. the Israeli peace movement has become a side-show, the Israelis are simply fed up...
The tragedy is that today's elections in Israel could lead tp the balance-of-power being in the hands of a right-wing lunatic.........whether Kadima or Likud win, it seems a party led by a nut named Lieberman will come in third.......Lieberman wants the expulsion of Arab Israelis.......Lieberman is so far right he can't see the middle, and Lieberman's party may well displace the leftist Labour Party as number three.....that is how far Israeli public opinion has withdrawn from the concept of a possible peace.
This is a tragedy.
I only hope that Kadima and Likud have the good sense tom form a national government together, reach agreement for the national good, and keep Lieberman as far away from power as possible.
it is true the Palrstinians were not offered everything, it is true that Israel certainly operated and negotiated from a position of strength, but the Palestinians were offered a nation........and the common people on both sides looked at the prospect of peace with joy and anticipation......but it got, to say the least, bogged down in the details......
One of the major details was Arafat's fear that his corruption would be exposed, that the world would be made aware of the BILLIONS !!!! of dollars he stole from his people......that he would become a pariah, or worse yet, a joke......so instead of dealing in good faith....he called out for a second intifada, and hope was dashed.
Follow that by the Palestinian peoples' choice of genocidal Hamas over corrupt Fatah, the failure of the unilateral withdrawal Israel made from Gaza, forcing settlers out as well, and the continuing, never-ending violence.....and Israelis have given up on peace. the Israeli peace movement has become a side-show, the Israelis are simply fed up...
The tragedy is that today's elections in Israel could lead tp the balance-of-power being in the hands of a right-wing lunatic.........whether Kadima or Likud win, it seems a party led by a nut named Lieberman will come in third.......Lieberman wants the expulsion of Arab Israelis.......Lieberman is so far right he can't see the middle, and Lieberman's party may well displace the leftist Labour Party as number three.....that is how far Israeli public opinion has withdrawn from the concept of a possible peace.
This is a tragedy.
I only hope that Kadima and Likud have the good sense tom form a national government together, reach agreement for the national good, and keep Lieberman as far away from power as possible.
#876
Re: Israel...
Feb 10th, 2009
If Lieberman actually gets his way, I hope the west boycotts Israel and sets up an embargo.
#877
Re: Israel...
Feb 15th, 2009
Can I hold you guys to those opinions?
Most Israelis including the leaders of the major parties support stripping Israeli Arabs of their citizenship and transferring them to the Palestinian concentration camps where they can be bombed and starved like the rest.
Netanyahu fully supports Lieberman's transfer bill.
But many groups in Israel openly talk about ethnically cleansing Israel of non-Jews:
Most Israelis including the leaders of the major parties support stripping Israeli Arabs of their citizenship and transferring them to the Palestinian concentration camps where they can be bombed and starved like the rest.
Quote:
Lieberman just has the balls to say openly what most Israelis believe but are too ashamed to admit.Apr 1, 2008 7:23
Poll: Israelis favor Arab transfer to Palestine
A total of 76 percent of Israeli Jews give some degree of support to transferring Israeli Arabs to a future Palestinian state, a poll commissioned by the Knesset Channel revealed, Monday.
The poll, conducted over the Internet, included 668 adult Israeli Jews representing the entire political spectrum, cites a 3.7% margin of error.
The poll asked participants whether as part of an agreement to establish a Palestinian state there would be justification to demand that Arabs with Israeli citizenship relocate to Palestinian territory.
Only 24% were totally against the idea.
Of the remaining 76%, 29% said all Israeli Arabs should relocate. An additional 19% said only Arabs living in close proximity to the Palestinian state should relocate, and 28% said transfer should be decided based on loyalty or disloyalty to the State of Israel.
The data reflects Jewish Israelis' distrust of Arabs national priorities. A total of 50% said Arabs identify first and foremost with the Palestinian cause and see their Israeli loyalty as secondary, while 40% said Arabs identify solely with Palestinians, and only a single percent thought Arabs identify wholly with their Israeli identity...
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Netanyahu fully supports Lieberman's transfer bill.
Quote:
So does Livni:06/02/2009
Elections 2009 / Netanyahu: Lieberman campaign against Israeli Arabs is 'legitimate'
Likud chairman Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday branded as "legitimate" rival prime ministerial candidate Avigdor Lieberman's electoral campaign against Israeli Arabs.
"This is a legitimate bill, which has already been proposed by Likud MK Yisrael Katz, but the problem with it is enforcement. It is legitimate to demand that the citizens of a state should be loyal to it," said Netanyahu in an interview with Channel 2.
Netanyahu was referring to Lieberman's vow to pass a citizenship law that will "prevent the disloyalty of some of Israel's Arabs."
Lieberman's hardline Yisrael Beiteinu has built its campaign ahead of next week's general election around the slogan: "No citizenship without loyalty," which is directed at Israeli Arabs...
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Quote:
Later she tried to retract and obscure the statement.FM takes heat over Israeli Arab remark
Dec. 11, 2008
abe selig , THE JERUSALEM POST
Kadima leader Tzipi Livni signalled on Thursday that she believed Israeli Arabs could best fulfill their nationalist goals by moving to a future Palestinian state.
"My solution for maintaining a Jewish and democratic State of Israel is to have two nation-states with certain concessions and with clear red lines," Livni told a group of students at a Tel Aviv high school. "And among other things, I will also be able to approach the Palestinian residents of Israel, those whom we call Israeli Arabs, and tell them, 'your national solution lies elsewhere.'" ...
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But many groups in Israel openly talk about ethnically cleansing Israel of non-Jews:
Quote:
...For all those who declare that transfer is unachievable and impractical it is worth recalling the words of Theodor Herzl that "if the Jews wish to have a State, they will have it." When these words were written in the book The Jewish State they were only a utopian dream. Herzl wrote,
Quote has been trimmed
The plan [to create a Jewish state] would of course, seem absurd if a single individual attempted to carry it out; but if worked out by a number of Jews in co-operation it would appear perfectly rational, and its accomplishment would present no insurmountable difficulties. The idea depends only on the number of its supporters.
The dream of the great Jewish prophet has materialized. The Jews have built their state. To be more precise, they have made many important steps on the road to its realization. However, without the final step - the transfer of the Arabs - the task of building the Jewish state cannot be considered complete. Perhaps if the Arab attitude toward the presence of Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisrael had been different, this would not be necessary. However, history has made it clear that this is the only way to achieve a permanent and stable resolution to the conflict. And each passing day without resolving the issue weakens Israel more and more, bringing closer the inevitable demise to which the present course of action will lead.
There are three major reasons that make the transfer of the Arabs out of Eretz Yisrael an...
Last edited by earth_as_one; Feb 15th, 2009 at 09:01 PM..
#878
Re: Israel...
Feb 16th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
C, when a used car dealer tells you he's offering you a great deal, do you believe them? The Israeli negotiators offered the Palestinians the status quo politically with a few extras like swapping huge areas of Palestinian arable land for less Israeli land which consisted of mostly desert and responsibility for cleaning up several Israeli toxic waste dumps. Palestinians would also have to give up their UN recognized right of millions of Palestinians ethnically cleansed off their land over the years to compensation or return of their property.After Barak opened up serious talks on a two-state solution, there was a time of relative peace, a time of hope in both Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.
it is true the Palrstinians were not offered everything, it is true that Israel certainly operated and negotiated from a position of strength, but the Palestinians were offered a nation........and the common people on both sides looked at the prospect of peace with joy and anticipation......but it got, to say the least, bogged down in the details.......
Read Arafat's letter to Clinton regarding the peace deal:
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After Israel offered their take it or leave it deal, they went on a PR campaign to sell it internationally. Some suckers like yourself obviously bought what Israel was selling. If you want to buy some swamp land, I mean "water front" property in Florida, I can put you in touch with someone who will offer you a great deal.
I agree Arafat and Fatah in general are corrupt. That's why Palestinians elect Hamas in the last election. When is Fatah going to hand over power as per the terms of the Palestinian constitution? When is the US and Israel going to recognize that Hamas won the election fairly and stop arming their opponents who remain in power by military force?
As Arafat got old, he became more interested in a his legacy. If he had accepted this deal, he would have been ridiculed. The deal was not a chance for peace. The deal had nothing in it which prevented Israel from continuing to bomb and starve Palestinians. The deal would have been one final annexation of more Palestinian land in exchange for Palestinians legitimizing 60 years of illegal Israeli activity.
The deal was analagous to a thief offering to keep what he has stolen in exchange for more money and the victim agreeing not to press charges and accepting a bag of excrement.
Read Arafat's letter to Clinton regarding the peace deal:
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Conservative
#879
Re: Israel...
Feb 16th, 2009
As I said, the deal was far from perfect.....but it would have given the Palestinians a nation.......a place from which to progress. Instead, since tha second intifada, all the West Bank and Gaza have done is regressed....
Indeed, they were better off in Gaza under Israeli occupation....Hamas throws those who disagree with their Islamo-fascist ideas off the roofs of high buildings, and is guilty of extra-judicial executions by the score, torture, knee-capping and a general rule of terror.
You quote Arafat? Let us make something perfectly clear: Arafat never wanted a deal. In fact, he was terrified there would be a deal, as the reason for his personal domination of the Palestinian refugees would then disappear, and it was very possible it would become common knowledge that he personally stole BILLIONS (that's with a "B") of aid dollars from his impoverished people.....
One of the reasons Hamas has enjoyed such success in getting themselves elected (forever, I guess, as there will be no more elections) is the blatant corruption of Fatah.
As for the right of return?
Laughable.
Right now the ability of ISRAELI Arabs to stay in Israel is in doubt.
You have to deal with the possible.....that is my point.
Indeed, they were better off in Gaza under Israeli occupation....Hamas throws those who disagree with their Islamo-fascist ideas off the roofs of high buildings, and is guilty of extra-judicial executions by the score, torture, knee-capping and a general rule of terror.
You quote Arafat? Let us make something perfectly clear: Arafat never wanted a deal. In fact, he was terrified there would be a deal, as the reason for his personal domination of the Palestinian refugees would then disappear, and it was very possible it would become common knowledge that he personally stole BILLIONS (that's with a "B") of aid dollars from his impoverished people.....
One of the reasons Hamas has enjoyed such success in getting themselves elected (forever, I guess, as there will be no more elections) is the blatant corruption of Fatah.
As for the right of return?
Laughable.
Right now the ability of ISRAELI Arabs to stay in Israel is in doubt.
You have to deal with the possible.....that is my point.
#880
Re: Israel...
Feb 16th, 2009
Colpy,
I bet you never read Arafat's letter:
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If you did, you'd know what Israel offered Palestinians was insulting.
I agree Hamas is a nasty organization. They are the democratically elected result of 60 years of Palestinian oppression and injustice.
Your sense of humor seems rather sadistic. I don't find anything funny about ethnic cleansing and denial of justice. You'll have to explain that joke to me.
I never knew you were so offended by torture, extrajucial assassinations, knee capping and terror. How do you reconcile this with your support of Israel which has tortured, assassinated, knee capped and terrorized far more people than Hamas ever will.
You are very selective in who offends you Colpy.
I don't think Canada or Canadians should support any organization or countries which do these things. Why do you support Israel's right to do these things but are against Hamas doing the same thing? That seems rather hypocritical...
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There is the possible and then there is the inevitable. Anything is possible, but inevitably what goes around, comes around.
I bet you never read Arafat's letter:
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If you did, you'd know what Israel offered Palestinians was insulting.
I agree Hamas is a nasty organization. They are the democratically elected result of 60 years of Palestinian oppression and injustice.
Your sense of humor seems rather sadistic. I don't find anything funny about ethnic cleansing and denial of justice. You'll have to explain that joke to me.
I never knew you were so offended by torture, extrajucial assassinations, knee capping and terror. How do you reconcile this with your support of Israel which has tortured, assassinated, knee capped and terrorized far more people than Hamas ever will.
You are very selective in who offends you Colpy.
I don't think Canada or Canadians should support any organization or countries which do these things. Why do you support Israel's right to do these things but are against Hamas doing the same thing? That seems rather hypocritical...
Quote:
Israeli Soldiers Break Palestinians Youth´s Elbow With RockWednesday, 1 August, 2001, 21:01 GMT 22:01 UK
Israel's 'assassination policy'
Remains of a car hit by an Israeli rocket
By BBC News Online's Tarik Kafala The Israeli Government of Ariel Sharon is, like its predecessors, committed to the policy of assassinating individuals who it believes pose a threat to its citizens....
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There is the possible and then there is the inevitable. Anything is possible, but inevitably what goes around, comes around.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Feb 16th, 2009 at 10:30 AM..
#881
Re: Israel...
Feb 16th, 2009
Arab Technology Meets German Engineering and can not beat it.
YouTube - Arab Technology Meets German Engineering
#882
Re: Israel...
Feb 16th, 2009
I bet you'll find this online video game hilarious S:
enjoy:
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click play game and then go raid em.
BTW here is some reality:
enjoy:
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click play game and then go raid em.
BTW here is some reality:
YouTube - Gaza villages Wiped off the map
YouTube - Gazas destruction revealed - 20 Jan 09
Last edited by earth_as_one; Feb 16th, 2009 at 07:32 PM..
#883
Re: Israel...
Feb 16th, 2009
Thats not very bad for a warzone. Im really wondering how many warzones you've seen.
#885
Re: Israel...
Feb 19th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one
Yes, genocidal dictators truly don't have it coming.Looks sort of like Iraq, yet another unprovoked war crime
Why can't people just sit back and let someone engage in a war of genetic purity?
And why did the USA feel it right to intervene in an existing civil war by choosing sides, jeez you'd think people could learn to let a genocidal dictator finish his work without stopping him and acting like they have souls.
#886
Re: Israel...
Feb 19th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one
Looks sort of like Iraq, yet another unprovoked war crime
It was provoked by Sadam because he at first refused to let the inspectors inspect for biological weapons of mass distraction. Sadam new he had no such weaponry but bluffed to the west and his neighbors and that got him killed.
It would have been a war crime if for sure the Americans new that he did not have them and still went into Iraq, which would be a war crime indeed. But Sadam was a brutal piece of sh!t and he brought the distraction to Iraq, if he had cooperated back then he may still be governing Iraq today.
Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike
CLINTON: Good evening.
Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.
Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.
Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.
#887
Re: Israel...
Feb 19th, 2009
I guess my article doesn't fit in at the moment, but I have to set it down here, or where else?
Turkey probes Israel on 'war crimes' in Gaza
Ankara chief prosecutor's office says investigation following complaint filed by Islamic human rights organization against Peres, Olmert and Livni
Turkish prosecutors said Friday that they were investigating whether Israeli leaders should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity over the recent military -- in the Gaza Strip.
...Mazlum-Der, an Islamic-oriented human rights organization in Turkey, filed an official complaint against Israeli leaders.
The group alleges that genocide, torture and crimes against humanity were committed by --, --, -- and the country's army and military intelligence chiefs.
Mazlum-Der has also asked that the Israeli officials be detained if they enter Turkey, prosecutors said.
Full story here...
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"Good Luck" to the Turks! They are too insignificant to make an impact. At least half a dozen countries would have to get together on this. But that will never happen for reasons of political survival. The big countries, that matter, are all on Israel's side.
Turkey probes Israel on 'war crimes' in Gaza
Ankara chief prosecutor's office says investigation following complaint filed by Islamic human rights organization against Peres, Olmert and Livni
Turkish prosecutors said Friday that they were investigating whether Israeli leaders should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity over the recent military -- in the Gaza Strip.
...Mazlum-Der, an Islamic-oriented human rights organization in Turkey, filed an official complaint against Israeli leaders.
The group alleges that genocide, torture and crimes against humanity were committed by --, --, -- and the country's army and military intelligence chiefs.
Mazlum-Der has also asked that the Israeli officials be detained if they enter Turkey, prosecutors said.
Full story here...
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Quote:
----------------------------------Scared to be identified as Jews' / Yedioth Ahronoth
A., a Jewish woman living in Istanbul, writes of difficulties faced by Jews following rising anti-Semitism in Turkey in wake of Gaza op
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"Good Luck" to the Turks! They are too insignificant to make an impact. At least half a dozen countries would have to get together on this. But that will never happen for reasons of political survival. The big countries, that matter, are all on Israel's side.
Last edited by dancing-loon; Feb 19th, 2009 at 09:09 PM..
#888
Re: Israel...
Feb 19th, 2009
I think Turkey claiming the moral high ground here is absurd.
As turkey, under their current prime minister, did bomb civilians to crap in a neighbouring country when militants opened fire on them from across the border.
Or did he forget he bombed villages in Northern Iraq last year, murdering civlians in response to a mere handful of attacks against the Turkish Military.
Oh the Turkish PM, do as I say, not as a I do.
As turkey, under their current prime minister, did bomb civilians to crap in a neighbouring country when militants opened fire on them from across the border.
Or did he forget he bombed villages in Northern Iraq last year, murdering civlians in response to a mere handful of attacks against the Turkish Military.
Oh the Turkish PM, do as I say, not as a I do.
Free Thinker
#889
Re: Israel...
Feb 20th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov
Good catch, Z.I think Turkey claiming the moral high ground here is absurd.
As turkey, under their current prime minister, did bomb civilians to crap in a neighbouring country when militants opened fire on them from across the border.
Or did he forget he bombed villages in Northern Iraq last year, murdering civlians in response to a mere handful of attacks against the Turkish Military.
Oh the Turkish PM, do as I say, not as a I do.
#890
Re: Israel...
Feb 21st, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov
I don't care about Hussein. Amazing how people can completely ignore the million or so Israqis who've died violently and the 5 million displaced as a result of an unprovoked war crime.Yes, genocidal dictators truly don't have it coming.
Why can't people just sit back and let someone engage in a war of genetic purity?
And why did the USA feel it right to intervene in an existing civil war by choosing sides, jeez you'd think people could learn to let a genocidal dictator finish his work without stopping him and acting like they have souls.
Maybe I should have said it looks like Falluja.
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#891
Re: Israel...
Feb 21st, 2009
A handful of destroyed and disrepair buildings? Ever been to Detroit?
Funny how the majority of those in fallujah are more than happy to have been liberated. Wars destroy buildings, thats why they are bad. But that doesnt' mean you should just sit back and let the most ruthless person run the world for fear of doing anything about it.
Funny how the majority of those in fallujah are more than happy to have been liberated. Wars destroy buildings, thats why they are bad. But that doesnt' mean you should just sit back and let the most ruthless person run the world for fear of doing anything about it.
#892
Re: Israel...
Feb 21st, 2009
Z: Re: ...the majority of those in fallujah are more than happy to have been liberated...
That's a pretty bold statement. How did you come to this erroneous conclusion?
During the second seige of Fallujah in 2004, the US military gave orders to kill anything that moved. That means every man, women and child in Fallujah was considered a legitimate target. The US military admits they used chemical weapons. By the end of the battle, most of the city lay in ruin and the inhabitants which either could not leave or refused to leave were slaughtered mercilessly. Estimates of civilian casualties are in the thousands. Today the city remains in ruins and most of the former residents live as homeless refugees.
The US used chemical weapons in Iraq - and then lied about it
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Fallujuah Jan 2008
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Sounds like what Israel did to Gaza but on a bigger scale. BTW, Saddam Hussein was not in Fallujah....
That's a pretty bold statement. How did you come to this erroneous conclusion?
During the second seige of Fallujah in 2004, the US military gave orders to kill anything that moved. That means every man, women and child in Fallujah was considered a legitimate target. The US military admits they used chemical weapons. By the end of the battle, most of the city lay in ruin and the inhabitants which either could not leave or refused to leave were slaughtered mercilessly. Estimates of civilian casualties are in the thousands. Today the city remains in ruins and most of the former residents live as homeless refugees.
The US used chemical weapons in Iraq - and then lied about it
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Quote:
...
b. White Phosphorous. WP proved to
be an effective and versatile munition.
We used it for screening missions at
two breeches and, later in the fight, as a
potent psychological weapon against
the insurgents in trench lines and spider
holes when we could not get effects on
them with HE. We fired “shake and
bake” missions at the insurgents, using
WP to flush them out and HE to take
them out.
c. Hexachloroethane Zinc (HC) Smoke
and Precision-Guided Munitions. We
could have used these munitions. We
used improved WP for screening missions
when HC smoke would have been
more effective and saved our WP for
lethal missions.
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Quote:
...Under threat of a new siege, an estimated 50,000 families or 250,000 people fled Falluja. They fled with the knowledge that they would live as refugees with few or no resources. They left behind fathers, husbands, brothers and sons, as males between the ages of 15 and 45 were denied safe passage out of the city by US-led forces....
...Although there has been resounding silence about the humanitarian disaster in Falluja, the true cost to the civilian population is emerging. Preliminary estimates are as high as 6,000 Iraqis killed, a third of the city destroyed, and over 200,000 civilians living as refugees....
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Quote:
More recently:You Asked for My Evidence, Mr. Ambassador. Here it is. In Iraq, the US Does Eliminate Those Who Dare to Count the Dead
...Last month, US troops once again laid siege to Falluja -- but this time the attack included a new tactic: eliminating the doctors, journalists, and clerics who focused public attention on civilian casualties last time around....
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Fallujuah Jan 2008
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Sounds like what Israel did to Gaza but on a bigger scale. BTW, Saddam Hussein was not in Fallujah....
#893
Re: Israel...
Feb 28th, 2009
One can understand how one might be skeptical. Hamas continues to launch rockets at Israel from Gaza. In fact, today one hit a school which was fortunately empty. -- Yet, the media doesn't cover this news here and the EU and the US continues to send large amounts of foreign aid to Gaza.
#894
Re: Israel...
Feb 28th, 2009
Having to go to a BBC website isn't exactly keeping the news from us. This is what keeping the news from us looks like IMHO
TheStar.com | World | How 'Canadians' almost ignited a war
(in part)
The result – excerpted exclusively in today's Star – is the newly published Kill Khalid: The Failed Mossad Assassination of Khalid Mishal and the Rise of Hamas, an unsurpassed telling of how Israeli spies masquerading as Canadian tourists all but ignited a Mideast war in 1997.
The audacious Israeli plan was to spray deadly nerve gas into the ear of the then-middling Hamas operative. This, they managed – but as the stricken Mishal took ill in the Jordanian capital of Amman, the "Canadians" were captured. And that is when all hell broke loose.
McGeough's gripping account spares no detail, providing a fly-on-the-wall vantage of the rising diplomatic panic that sent shudders through world capitals.
In a span of hours, the story went from empathy – one Canadian diplomat went so far as to fetch one of her husband's shirts for the battered "tourists" – to outright fury, as Jordan's King Hussein ordered his troops to rotate the guns defending the Israeli embassy, putting the Israelis in the crosshairs.
Kill Khalid also provides startling new detail on the anxieties in Jean Chrétien's Ottawa, where government mandarins were in a frenzy to get their hands on the forgedpassports. McGeough takes us inside the king's palace for the clandestine handover of the crucial documents to Canadian officials – and how Canadian intelligence officials mounted a near-military operation to get them home to Ottawa, braced for counterattack at every stage of the journey.
Hold that thought, because McGeough has more to say on the Canadian dimensions of this saga. But for now, let us proceed to the larger, arguably more provocative, theme of the book – that Israel's botched assassination was the best, but by no means the only, example of how Hamas owes its success to a succession of errors by both Israel and the United States.
"If you stand back and look at these last 10 years, circumstances have been created again and again, by the Israelis and by Washington, to make Hamas a fait accompli," said McGeough. "Hamas has survived and thrived on the mistakes and the bad reasoning – principally of the Israelis but also of Washington. When Hamas wasn't being directly encouraged, the other Palestinian movement (the late Yasser Arafat's) Fatah, was being propped up, even though it was a corrupt and venal regime – snout-in-trough at its worst."
The masterstroke for Hamas, said McGeough, was wholly Washington's fault – the Bush administration's permission, against Israeli objections, to allow Hamas to stand for election in the Palestinian territories in 2006.
"Suddenly you had an armed resistance movement standing for election in an occupied territory. It was quite spectacular, and it again locked Hamas into the centre of the crisis at a time when it could have been pushed to the fringe."
TheStar.com | World | How 'Canadians' almost ignited a war
(in part)
The result – excerpted exclusively in today's Star – is the newly published Kill Khalid: The Failed Mossad Assassination of Khalid Mishal and the Rise of Hamas, an unsurpassed telling of how Israeli spies masquerading as Canadian tourists all but ignited a Mideast war in 1997.
The audacious Israeli plan was to spray deadly nerve gas into the ear of the then-middling Hamas operative. This, they managed – but as the stricken Mishal took ill in the Jordanian capital of Amman, the "Canadians" were captured. And that is when all hell broke loose.
McGeough's gripping account spares no detail, providing a fly-on-the-wall vantage of the rising diplomatic panic that sent shudders through world capitals.
In a span of hours, the story went from empathy – one Canadian diplomat went so far as to fetch one of her husband's shirts for the battered "tourists" – to outright fury, as Jordan's King Hussein ordered his troops to rotate the guns defending the Israeli embassy, putting the Israelis in the crosshairs.
Kill Khalid also provides startling new detail on the anxieties in Jean Chrétien's Ottawa, where government mandarins were in a frenzy to get their hands on the forgedpassports. McGeough takes us inside the king's palace for the clandestine handover of the crucial documents to Canadian officials – and how Canadian intelligence officials mounted a near-military operation to get them home to Ottawa, braced for counterattack at every stage of the journey.
Hold that thought, because McGeough has more to say on the Canadian dimensions of this saga. But for now, let us proceed to the larger, arguably more provocative, theme of the book – that Israel's botched assassination was the best, but by no means the only, example of how Hamas owes its success to a succession of errors by both Israel and the United States.
"If you stand back and look at these last 10 years, circumstances have been created again and again, by the Israelis and by Washington, to make Hamas a fait accompli," said McGeough. "Hamas has survived and thrived on the mistakes and the bad reasoning – principally of the Israelis but also of Washington. When Hamas wasn't being directly encouraged, the other Palestinian movement (the late Yasser Arafat's) Fatah, was being propped up, even though it was a corrupt and venal regime – snout-in-trough at its worst."
The masterstroke for Hamas, said McGeough, was wholly Washington's fault – the Bush administration's permission, against Israeli objections, to allow Hamas to stand for election in the Palestinian territories in 2006.
"Suddenly you had an armed resistance movement standing for election in an occupied territory. It was quite spectacular, and it again locked Hamas into the centre of the crisis at a time when it could have been pushed to the fringe."
No Party Affiliation
#895
Re: Israel...
Mar 1st, 2009
Palestinians must be the dumbest people in the world, they continue to shoot rockets into Israel.
" Israel's prime minister threatened "uncompromising" retaliation against Gaza militants Sunday as Palestinian rocket fire persists six weeks after Israeli forces halted an offensive meant to end the attacks."
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Israel should drive them all out into Egypt and close the Gaza border, let Gaza be a buffer area like the Golan Heights are.
" Israel's prime minister threatened "uncompromising" retaliation against Gaza militants Sunday as Palestinian rocket fire persists six weeks after Israeli forces halted an offensive meant to end the attacks."
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Israel should drive them all out into Egypt and close the Gaza border, let Gaza be a buffer area like the Golan Heights are.
#896
Re: Israel...
Mar 1st, 2009
Canada's reaction to Israeli agents travelling to Jordan on Canadian passports to carry out an assassination was to temporarily recall our ambassador. Our reaction almost makes us look complicit in their failed assassination attempt. Given Canada's impotent response, its very likely Israeli agents continue to travel with Canadian passports. If they are caught, we might recall our ambassador again.
Compare Canada's reaction to New Zealand's reaction to an "attempt" by Israeli agents to just illegally obtain their passport:
Compare Canada's reaction to New Zealand's reaction to an "attempt" by Israeli agents to just illegally obtain their passport:
Quote:
Our government's support for whatever Israel does is "unshakable" to quote Harper...."The breach of New Zealand laws and sovereignty by agents of the Israeli government has seriously strained our relationship with Israel," said the prime minister, Helen Clark.
"This type of behaviour is unacceptable internationally by any country. It is a sorry indictment of Israel that it has again taken such actions against a country with which it has friendly relations."
High-level visits between the two countries will be cancelled, visa restrictions imposed for Israeli officials, and an expected visit to New Zealand by Moshe Katsov, the Israeli president, later this year has been cancelled...
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Quote:
When Israel killed Canadian civilians and a peacekeeper in Lebanon in 2006, Harper described Israel's actions as "measured".Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper told 7,000 people celebrating Israel’s 60th birthday that the Jewish State has Canada’s “unshakable support”
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Quote:
July 16, 2006 | 3:00 PM ET
CBC News
Seven Canadians — including four children — were killed in an Israeli air raid that hit a Lebanese town on the border with Israel on Sunday. Three Canadians were seriously injured.
Israel has acknowledged carrying out the attack...
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/07/16/lebanon-canadians.html
Quote:
July 18 2006
Prime Minister Stephen Harper offered brief condolences yesterday to the families of Canadians killed in Lebanon, but has not asked Israel for an explanation for their deaths.
And while he offered more details, Harper did not back down from his comment that Israel's bombing of Lebanon was a "measured" response...
http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=296184ac-63d1-4dca-a85c-1552513c7490
Quote:
Canada's relations with Israel should be "conditional" on their respect for Canada, our sovereignty and the safety of Canadian citizens. Our government should put the welfare of Canadians before our unshakable support for measured Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.UN observer's wife calls Israel attack 'intentional'
Updated Fri. Jul. 28 2006 11:37 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
The wife of Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, missing and presumed dead after an Israeli attack on his UN observer post, says she believes the bombing was "intentional."
CTV.ca | UN observer's wife calls Israel attack 'intentional'
#897
Re: Israel...
Mar 1st, 2009
I think the fact that all those "Canadians" In lebannon exist should tell you how stringent we are with our passport, why would we put a double standard to Israel?
New Zealand on the other hand has a large history or western governments (France) committing terror bombings on their soil and then threatening them for catching the culprits.
New Zealand on the other hand has a large history or western governments (France) committing terror bombings on their soil and then threatening them for catching the culprits.
#898
Re: Israel...
Mar 1st, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one
On an even broader term shouldn't a country's present day conduct be the only guide in determining if they are benign to all other countries or they are a danger to any and all they encounter. To put the US (just as an example) on a pedestal because they did some very good things and keep them there even after they are doing acts that are condemned as being wrong by every country in the world.Canada's relations with Israel should be "conditional" on their respect for Canada, our sovereignty and the safety of Canadian citizens. Our government should put the welfare of Canadians before our unshakable support for measured Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.
The WMD's of Iraq were a no show. That was a big part of their reasoning to send combat troops there in the first place. Several years after the initial invasion somebody should be saying they have no reason to be there. Their original reasons have been proven to be false, the justification for staying...well there isn't a valid one....but the world says squat. It is an illegal occupation and by rights they should depart and leave a big fat check so Iraq can rebuild itself without the influence of the US saying what the final product should look like. If a person or a country supports something that is clearly illegal they are no better than the criminals themselves. Even a Marshal in the old west was put down if he started killing the ones he was supposed to be protecting. The responsibility is on the ones who hired the Marshal in the 1st place. If that town doesn't solve things the next town just might wipe out the Marshal and the ones who hired him.
The US likes to put on a show that indicates their current system will sort things out because that is how good and wonderful it is. The invasion happened in '03, the world waited breathlessly for a change in Gov in '06, didn't happen (probably more to do with cheating that a lack of will of the voter but even the new more powerful opposition did little or nothing to make things right for the people of Iraq) That was supposed to be the time the withdrawal was to start....wrong...just more of the same old same old. This election was the same case, new Gov lets set things right, promises were even made. Election over and the withdrawl plan is unveiled, a whole 1/1/2 years before it is to be implemented and leaving 50,000 combat troops there with their air support is not a withdrawl it is a permnant occupation.
So in the time the WMD's should have been found (say 6 months after the invasion) and the 'proposed pullout' (in that it could be cancelled by something as serious as a jawalker) is between 5 and 6 years. Every day of that time Iraqi's have and will die at the hands of the US soldiers. Every day of that time some part of their infrastructure is demolished and not repaired. Every American is responsible for those needless deaths. Even the truth activists are guilty, they have known for years how corrupt their sysytem is and......nothing......maybe next election....until then I guess the Iraqi's just have to keep dieing.
For all this the world basically says nothing but have an impovershed people send a few home-made rockets into the deserts of Israel and it is front page news for days on end.
#899
Re: Israel...
Mar 1st, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov
Just what does that statement actually mean? I think the fact that all those "Canadians" In lebannon exist should tell you how stringent we are with our passport, why would we put a double standard to Israel?
Are you hinting that those were 'fake Canadians' or that a 'real Canadian' would never visit Lebanon?
Did you read the story, the Israeli Secret Service was using Canadian passports to get close to a person so they could kill him. Please wipe the sleep from your eyes.
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