Israel...

gopher
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#61
"Who needs to win? Our friends, our allies, the democratic, free nation, the leader of the western world........or lunatic, genocidal Islamist terrorists......
Think about that for a minute."


Who? Lunatic Bush who lied and killed over 1 million Iraqis after declaring his evil intentions in the Downing Street memo?
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

It is a war, Mikey.

Pick a side.

I pick the side of the civilians caught in the crossfire.

And yes I am aware the US significantly increased their economic and military support of Fatah after Hamas won the election.

Quote:

eao: Why didn't we complain when the US and Israel armed opposition forces in a blatant attempt to overthrow Palestine's democratically elected government?
Hamas didn't start the violence which led to their military take over of Gaza. Violence erupted when anti-democratic forces backed by Israel and the US attempted to overthrow the democratically elected Palestinian government. In the end the side with the support of the majority of people (Hamas) won in Gaza but lost in the West Bank.

Colpy: Do you REALLY believe that? If so, you're simply hopeless.

How come your memory is so short Colpy? That was barely two years ago and you've forgotten already.


Quote:

26 January 2006

Hamas sweeps to election victory

--

Quote:

Hamas seizes U.S. weapons
Terrorist: We'll hijack all American weapons provided to Abbas' militias
May 14, 2007
TEL AVIV -- Hamas yesterday ambushed a convoy in the Gaza Strip and seized a stockpile of U.S. weapons transferred in recent months to militias associated with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party, according to Hamas and Fatah sources.
"We obtained the U.S. weapons and will keep hijacking any assistance the Americans provide to Fatah. Our fighters are aware of the American and Israeli conspiracies to topple our government. We're trained and well prepared to defeat the American-backed (Palestinian) agents," said a top member of Hamas' so-called military wing in the Gaza Strip.
According to Israeli and Palestinian security officials and Hamas sources, Hamas militias in recent months have taken almost complete control of the northern Gaza Strip, including areas from which rockets are launched regularly into nearby Jewish communities. The officials said Fatah, which is backed by the U.S., is restricted to acting within a half-mile radius of a major Fatah military compound. Hamas has set up roadblocks and checkpoints throughout northern Gaza to ensure Fatah militias remain near their compound.

Quote has been trimmed

Quote:

07/01/2007

Three Hamas militants killed in clashes with Fatah in Gaza Strip

By Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent, and News Agencies

Three Hamas militants were killed and five were wounded Saturday evening in clashes with a Fatah-related family hours after Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas declared Hamas security forces in Gaza illegal.

The militants, all members of the the Diri family, were killed in an exchange of fire between Hamas and members of the Durmush family, some of whom are affiliated with Fatah, in the Sabra neighborhood of Gaza City.

Four Hamas militants were kidnapped during the incident.

Another member of Hamas was kidnapped in a separate incident in the Gaza Strip. No further details were available. Earlier, two Hamas officials were kidnapped in separate incidents in the West Bank.

In Nablus, an An- Najah National University lecturer affiliated with Hamas was wounded by six militants apparently belonging to Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

The lecturer, Marwan Kadoumi, was shot in his legs when the militants entered his home. He was evacuated to the hospital in moderate condition.

Earlier Saturday, pro-Fatah gunmen attacked Hamas officials in two separate incidents in the West Bank, security officials said...

...Fighting between Abbas's Fatah faction and Hamas has surged since talks on forming a unity government collapsed and Abbas called for early parliamentary and presidential elections. Hamas accused Abbas of mounting a coup...

Abbas says Hamas security force in Gaza is illegal
In a statement released on Saturday, Abbas declared that Hamas security forces in Gaza not integrated with PA forces would now be considered illegal....

Hamas: U.S. is funding a 'revolt' against our government

Senior Hamas official Mushir al-Masri blamed the U.S. on Friday for attempting to promote a revolt against the Hamas government, after U.S. documents showed that the Bush administration will provide $86.4 million to strengthen security forces loyal to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

"We demand that Abbas reject this U.S. policy, which is tearing the Palestinian people apart," he said.

The new policy would expand U.S. involvement in Abbas' power struggle with Hamas....

--

So yes, Colpy I believe the US did try to overthrow democraticaly elected Hamas by arming Fatah. How do you interpret the above?
 
einmensch
Avatar
#63
After reading many posts and comments, MikeyDB consistantly demonstrates his superior mental and verbal abillities.He does not need to demonstrate a notion of self- superiority by informing others that he is well educated knowing all or stammer "That this is the silliest post I have ever read".
COLPY- You referred to me as a JEW Hater. Go get your proof and post it. OR, is slander also part of your intelligent debating?
Does the below make me a Jew Hater?

ALL holocausts can be scrutinised, investigated, researched and questioned. Whether it is the 15 million German Holocaust victims or the 54 million Russian Holocaust victims in the ex-Soviet-Union, ordered by mostly Jewish commissioners. Regardless which Holocaust we want to study, the Armenian-Holocaust, the Cossack-Holocaust, the Negro-Holocaust caused by Jewish slave traders, the Cambodian-Holocaust, the Chinese-Holocaust, all Holocausts can be questioned – except the Jewish-holocaust.
No investigations or scientific researches are allowed! The "Central Council of Jews in Germany" screams immediately, to bring holocaust-heretics "to justice", if anyone dares to question certain holocaust stories. The German judicial system goes into action at once to perform orgies of the most vile persecutions. Looking at all these un-atoned Holocausts that have taken place in our lifetimes history, Horst Mahler, a lawyer and former RAF (Red Army Faction) sympathiser stated: "The holocaust is neither incomprehensible nor unique." The "Council of Jews in Germany" reacted immediately, telling the German justice system: "Denying the singularity of the shoa is historically wrong and conceivably punishable by law." [15]
Israel is 60? I thought it went back to the Days of Moses?

 
dancing-loon
Avatar
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

60 years ago today Israel became a state. That's what I heard in the news. Amid the celebrations looms the Olmert bribery scandal. Al Jazera has inside knowledge he might step down and will likely be replaced by Zivi Livni.~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Looks like they need a major clean-up! But what is the use?

Some update!!
Quote:

Police seize more Olmert papers


Mr Olmert denies the accusations that he accepted bribes

Israeli police have raided the Ministry of Industry and Trade as a corruption investigation into Prime Minister Ehud Olmert continues, official radio says.
The raid follows one on Jerusalem's city hall on Monday.
He is suspected of accepting bribes from a American Jewish businessman during his time as Jerusalem mayor and later as a minister.

Haha... he and Mulrooney should go to bed together!!! They've got a lot in common.
Quote:


Mr Olmert is already being investigated in several other corruption scandals.
Police questioned Mr Talansky on Monday and have asked him to remain in Israel until later in the month.
Morris "Moshe" Talansky - a New York-based financier - is said to have given hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to Mr Olmert at a series of meetings in the 1990s and early 2000s.

Read full article here:
--
 
Colpy
Conservative
Avatar
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by einmenschView Post

After reading many posts and comments, MikeyDB consistantly demonstrates his superior mental and verbal abillities.He does not need to demonstrate a notion of self- superiority by informing others that he is well educated knowing all or stammer "That this is the silliest post I have ever read".
COLPY- You referred to me as a JEW Hater. Go get your proof and post it. OR, is slander also part of your intelligent debating?
Does the below make me a Jew Hater?
ALL holocausts can be scrutinised, investigated, researched and questioned. Whether it is the 15 million German Holocaust victims or the 54 million Russian Holocaust victims in the ex-Soviet-Union, ordered by mostly Jewish commissioners. Regardless which Holocaust we want to study, the Armenian-Holocaust, the Cossack-Holocaust, the Negro-Holocaust caused by Jewish slave traders, the Cambodian-Holocaust, the Chinese-Holocaust, all Holocausts can be questioned – except the Jewish-holocaust.
No investigations or scientific researches are allowed! The "Central Council of Jews in Germany" screams immediately, to bring holocaust-heretics "to justice", if anyone dares to question certain holocaust stories. The...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
You are a Jew hater.

If that shocks you, you need to take a long look in the mirror.

First, you deny the most horrible genocide in history was all that bad, and you cling to ridiculous web sites and silliness to support your claim, such as a sign outside Auschwitz.....I roll my eyes.

Then you quote things such as the above piece of drivel.....which blames Jews for "the 54 million Russianm Holocaust", the "negro Holocaust" (the slave trade)....the might as well cry out "the damned Jews deserved it!"

Spare me your bull****.

I only talked about my education when challenged about my knowledge......and yes, it is significant that I actually studied history........

instead of trying to pervert it.
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#66
Ein...

Jews may have been involved in some of these atrocities, but so were Christians, Muslims and others. Most of the slave trade in Africa was conducted by black African slave traders. Stalin was mostly responsible for the purges in the USSR. Various generals and dictators were responsible for most of the rest. I see no evidence of a Jewish conspiracy(or any other religion). Those atrocities were committed by people not religions.

I agree with your point that people should be able to challenge the "accepted facts" in all of these events including the Jewish holocaust. I disagree with people being imprisoned for denying the holocaust happened. All ideas or "accepted facts" should be debatable... within limits. But you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre or crack jokes about having a bomb in your suitcase as you board a plane. Free Speech has limits even in a tolerant society like Canada. As long as you don't advocate harming people, I support your right to free speech. If you think the Holocaust didn't happen, then I support your right to argue that point.

If you think Jews or any other group of people should be rounded up and abused in some way, then you cross a line in my mind.

I support the right of Canadians to freely choose their religion including Judaism. I don't blame Christians for the crusades or the inquistion. I don't believe there is a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. Sure Jews cooperate with one another and develop trust relationships based on their shared values. But that's not a conspiracy. Many groups of people have similar preferential relationships with each other based on common values. For example the "Loyal Order of the Moose". Do you think the Moose Lodge is also a conspiracy:
--

Yet members of Loyal Order of the Moose have preferential treatment for fellow members. So do ToastMasters, Boy Scouts, Free Masons, Kiwanis, Knights of Colombus... That's not a conspiracy.
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

You are a Jew hater.

If that shocks you, you need to take a long look in the mirror.

First, you deny the most horrible genocide in history was all that bad, and you cling to ridiculous web sites and silliness to support your claim, such as a sign outside Auschwitz.....I roll my eyes.

Then you quote things such as the above piece of drivel.....which blames Jews for "the 54 million Russianm Holocaust", the "negro Holocaust" (the slave trade)....the might as well cry out "the damned Jews deserved it!"

Spare me your bull****.

I only talked about my education when challenged about my knowledge......and yes, it is significant that I actually studied history........

instead of trying to pervert it.

C, I believe the Holocaust happened too. But I must admit having a hard time proving that precisely 6 million Jews died during this atrocity. Most links I find which reference this number don't back it up with proof or a link to proof. Try researching this for yourself and if you find something concrete please post it.
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

Some update!!Haha... he and Mulrooney should go to bed together!!! They've got a lot in common.Read full article here:
--

You might find this link interesting:
--

Seems like corruption and politics go together as they do in most countries.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post


....instead of trying to pervert it.

My daddy told me not to step in that because to ignore all but your own stories is when it hits the pasture in its slipperiest form.

The Holocaust happened. So does the grudge that diminishes its worth. When God-knows-how-much effort and expense is spent for second and third-generation "victims" to persecute an ancient man who, in every likelyhood, chose to stay alive, never again wears to an ugly Not To Us.
Last edited by lone wolf; May 13th, 2008 at 09:25 PM..
 
Colpy
Conservative
Avatar
#70
Gotta love Mark Steyn

from his piece
--


Quote:

By most measures, the Jewish state is a great success story. The modern Middle East is the misbegotten progeny of the British and French colonial map makers of 1922. All the nation states in that neck of the woods date back a mere 60 or 70 years – Iraq to the Thirties, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Israel to the Forties. The only difference is that Israel has made a go of it.
Would I rather there were more countries like Israel, or more like Syria? Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East (Iraq may yet prove a second), and its Arab citizens enjoy more rights than they would living under any of the kleptocrat kings and psychotic dictators who otherwise infest the region.
On a tiny strip of land narrower at its narrowest point than many American townships, Israel has built a modern economy with a GDP per capita just shy of $30,000 – and within striking distance of the European Union average. If you object that that’s because it’s uniquely blessed by Uncle Sam, well, for the past 30 years the second-largest recipient of U.S. aid has been Egypt: their GDP per capita is $5,000, and America has nothing to show for its investment other than one-time pilot Mohamed Atta coming at you through the office window.

--

scroll down some to find it. Very good piece.
 
MHz
#71
That $30,000 must mean somebody is making a fairly high wage if this fact is accurate.
Population below poverty line:
21.6%
note: Israel's poverty line is $7.30 per person per day (2005)

That is only about $2,665/yr.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...is.html#People

If that link works (the icon that looks like a chart)21% is the same as some countries that we consider as not doing all that well.
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
Avatar
#72
From your link:

GDP - per capita (PPP):
GDP - per capita (PPP): $28,800 (2007 est.)

Pretty consistant with just shy of 30k
 
einmensch
Avatar
#73
Colpy --I greatly admire your justification for calling me a Jew Hater. It certainly evidences your great knowledge of History as presented by Zionists. Don't think, just rely on your education. Fortunately the majority of Jews think more than you and the vast majority are human, kind hard working people.
 
Colpy
Conservative
Avatar
#74
Quote: Originally Posted by einmenschView Post

Colpy --I greatly admire your justification for calling me a Jew Hater. It certainly evidences your great knowledge of History as presented by Zionists. Don't think, just rely on your education. Fortunately the majority of Jews think more than you and the vast majority are human, kind hard working people.

Determined Holocaust denial in the fact of historical evidence indicates a bit of a problem with Jews......
 
MikeyDB
#75
Rabid support for a screwed up allegiance of the wealthy and powerful against the victims of a decision made by an organization that you now repeatedly characterize as uselessly flawed and unimportant indicates a possible break with reality.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Determined Holocaust denial in the fact of historical evidence indicates a bit of a problem with Jews......

Have you ever stopped the steamroller long enough to consider that it also indicates someone doesn't believe the myth the grudge has become? It happened. Get over it. Today is a new day. Interpreting that someone has grown tired of same ol' same ol' as: "You have a problem with Jews." is about the little minded drivel I have come to expect from all things Israel in the world according to that steamroller.
Last edited by lone wolf; May 18th, 2008 at 11:42 AM..
 
MHz
#77
Colpy, are you on record as officially supporting Israel as described in this video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...CoPoqgOppJW1CQ

 
CDNBear
Avatar
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Colpy, are you on record as officially supporting Israel as described in this video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...CoPoqgOppJW1CQ



That piece-o-shyte lost all crediblity as soon as Ted Pike said, and I quote here...

"Before Zionist settlers came here, around the turn of the century. This region was not particularly known for strife"

Ya OK, great grasp of historic accuracy.

I'm not surprised you find this piece both informative and useful MHz. Much like most of you, it lacks both accuracy and any form truth.

Carry on...with the brain , as it were.
 
MHz
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

"Before Zionist settlers came here, around the turn of the century. This region was not particularly known for strife"

Ya OK, great grasp of historic accuracy.

I'm not surprised you find this piece both informative and useful MHz. Much like most of you, it lacks both accuracy and any form truth.

Thanks for the link that disputes that statement.

Sounds like a real hell-hole, not.
--
"History » From the Arab conquest to 1900 » Ottoman ruleAfter 1840 the reforms the sultan promulgated gradually took effect in Palestine. Increased security in the countryside and the Ottoman Land Law of 1858 encouraged the development of private property, agricultural production for the world market, the decline of tribal social organization, growth of the population, and the enrichment of the notable families. As the Ottomans extended the central government’s new military, municipal, judicial, and educational systems to Palestine, the country also witnessed a marked increase in foreign settlements and --—French, Russian, and German. By far the most important, in spite of their initial numerical insignificance, were the Jewish agricultural settlements, which foreshadowed later -- endeavours to establish a Jewish national home and still later a Jewish state (Israel) in Palestine. The earliest of these settlements was founded by Russian Jews in 1882. In 1896 -- issued a pamphlet entitled Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State) and advocated an autonomous Jewish state, preferably in Palestine. Two years later he himself went to Palestine to investigate its possibilities and, possibly, to seek the help of the German emperor --, who was then making a spectacular pilgrimage to the Holy Land."
Educate yourself by reading about events past that little quote above.

Edit to add, this is when things started to change.
--
"In 1896 following the appearance of anti-Semitism in Europe, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism tried to find a political solution for the problem in his book, 'The Jewish State'. He advocated the creation of a Jewish state in Argentina or Palestine.

In 1897 the first Zionist Congress was held in Switzerland, which issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine and the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO).

In 1904 the Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.

In 1906 the Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine.

In 1914 With the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany."

Add these types of incidents and your view of Israel goes up in smoke.
"Following an argument which broke out between Palestinian workers and Jewish workers in the Haifa Petroleum Refinery, leading to the deaths of a number of Palestinians and wounding and killing approximately sixty Jews. The Zionest ganges planned to take revenge on behalf of fellow Jews who had been killed by attacking Baldat al-Shaikh and Hawasa where most of the workers live.

On the night of January 30-31, 1947, a mixed force composed of the First Battalion of Palmakh and the Carmelie brigade (estimated at approximately 150 to 200 terrorists) launched a raid against the two towns under the leadership of Hayim Afinuam. Taking the homes by surprise as their inhabitants slept, they pelted them with hand grenades, then went inside, firing their machine guns. The terrorist attack led to the deaths of approximately sixty citizens inside their homes, most of them women, elderly and children.

The attack lasted for an hour, after which the Zionists withdrew at 2:00 A.M. after attacking a large number of homes.

According to a report written by the leader of the terrorist operation, " the attacking units slipped into the town and began working on the houses. And due to the fact that gunfire was directed inside the rooms, it was not possible to avoid injuring women and children. " "

"On the night of April 9, 1948, the Irgun Zvei Leumi surrounded the village of Deir Yasin, located on the outskirts of Jerusalem. After giving the sleeping residents a 15 minute warning to evacuated, Menachem Begin's terrorists attacked the village of 700 people, killing 254 mostly old men, women and children and wounding 300 others. Begin's terrorists tossed many of the bodies in the village well, and paraded 150 captured women and children through the Jewish sectors of Jerusalem.

The Haganah and the Jewish Agency, which publicly denounced the atrocity after the details had become public several days later, did all they could to prevent the Red Cross from investigating the attack. It wasn't until three days after the attack that the Zionist armies permitted Jacques de Reynier, chief representative of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Jerusalem, to visit the village by the surrounding Zionist armies.

Ironically, the Deir Yasin villagers had signed a non aggression pact with the leaders of the adjacent Jewish Quarter, Giv'at Shaul and had even refused military personnel from the Arab Liberation Army from using the village as a base."
Last edited by MHz; May 18th, 2008 at 01:41 PM..
 
CDNBear
Avatar
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Thanks for the link that disputes that statement.

Sounds like a real hell-hole, not.

Educate yourself by reading about events past that little quote above.

Man you give this smilie a workout.

From your own paragraph (Thanx btw)
Quote:

From the Arab conquest to 1900

Nope, very little strife involved 'conquest'. Educate yourself sunshine. Here try this --

Before Palestine became a hot button issue for the uneducated, it was a malaise of swamp and ruin, of which Jewish Palestinians(Yep, I said Jewish Palestinians, cause that's what they were, being a location, not an indigenous people, of which you can thank the Ottoman Empire you just highlighted.)

This attracted Arab immigration as well, from all over the Arab world, due largely to the unrest, the 'strife' and the imposition of the Ottoman's.

But hey, don't let education get in the way of historic fact.

btw...I've supplied all the links I'm ever going to. If you doubt the accuracy of my commentary, please feel free to follow my profile to my threads and my pasts posts. There you will find a myriad of links to national archives, NGO's and unbiased collections of historic documentation.
 
Colpy
Conservative
Avatar
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Colpy, are you on record as officially supporting Israel as described in this video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...CoPoqgOppJW1CQ

Hatred.

Pure and simple.

Probably illegal, if not, only because the writers were careful to pay "lip service" to the idea that "not all Jews are like this"

Of course, it shouldn't be illegal......hate laws are a waste of time.

But it is dispicable.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#82
Amazing how sides are taken in something where everyone is to blame. There are no good guys, just politics.

Thus it is the reason peace will never be achieved.....at least not without a huge war.

The lefties hate the Jews and the Righties hate the Muslims.
 
Colpy
Conservative
Avatar
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Have you ever stopped the steamroller long enough to consider that it also indicates someone doesn't believe the myth the grudge has become? It happened. Get over it. Today is a new day. Interpreting that someone has grown tired of same ol' same ol' as: "You have a problem with Jews." is about the little minded drivel I have come to expect from all things Israel in the world according to that steamroller.

You are defending a guy who claims that about 1/2 at least of the Jewish holocaust didn't happen based solely on a sign stuck outside Auschwitz by the communist government of Poland.

There is no myth, only the denial of truth as the foundation of a structure to discredit and undermine the Jews in general, and Israel in particular.

As soon as these guys stop claiming it didn't happen, or wasn't very serious, I'll stop defending the truth.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#84
Really sucks to attempt intelligent dialogue with they who have mouth but no ears.

Woof!
 
CDNBear
Avatar
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

Amazing how sides are taken in something where everyone is to blame. There are no good guys, just politics.

It depends on the mindset of the people involved and the observer and the POV they already have. But I would agree with you anyways.
Quote:

Thus it is the reason peace will never be achieved.....at least not without a huge war.

That is a very scary thought and I hope and pray you are wrong.

Quote:

The lefties hate the Jews and the Righties hate the Muslims.

LOL...I think Not. I think people have drawn lines on what they believe to be the truths of the matter. The facts seem to somewhere in the middle.

It is more then fair to say that until all the parties involved rethink their particular strategies and their ideologies. We will not see an end to the bickering.

I say let facts prevail. And where there are none, cooperation and peace be the guiding light. No matter the ideology or theology.
 
CDNBear
#86
This bears repeating...
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

As soon as these guys stop claiming it didn't happen, or wasn't very serious, I'll stop defending the truth.

 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

It depends on the mindset of the people involved and the observer and the POV they already have. But I would agree with you anyways.
That is a very scary thought and I hope and pray you are wrong.

LOL...I think Not. I think people have drawn lines on what they believe to be the truths of the matter. The facts seem to somewhere in the middle.

It is more then fair to say that until all the parties involved rethink their particular strategies and their ideologies. We will not see an end to the bickering.

I say let facts prevail. And where there are none, cooperation and peace be the guiding light. No matter the ideology or theology.

In many ways the facts never ever prevail and it is why peace will never be achieved without a huge war.

Laugh all you want about how the left and right behave but it is true.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
Avatar
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

You are defending a guy who claims that about 1/2 at least of the Jewish holocaust didn't happen based solely on a sign stuck outside Auschwitz by the communist government of Poland.

There is no myth, only the denial of truth as the foundation of a structure to discredit and undermine the Jews in general, and Israel in particular.

As soon as these guys stop claiming it didn't happen, or wasn't very serious, I'll stop defending the truth.

Colp ... will you stop being a freaking idiot for long enough to understand I am NOT taking sides?

The myth comes in constant omissions of other thousands who suffered just as greatly in the Holocost. The myth comes when a grudge is the sole reason for being of an entire nation. The myth comes in a people who claim to be persecuted yet deploy the sons of sons of victims to accost an ancient man for doing what he had to to survive a terrible era. There is no way one can really deny it happened. It is only too easy to wonder if some may very well have been elaborated upon for dramatic purpose

You'll stop defending the truth. Do you even know what the truth is?
Last edited by lone wolf; May 18th, 2008 at 06:02 PM..
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Colp ... will you stop being a freaking idiot for long enough to understand I am NOT taking sides?

The myth comes in constant ommissions of other thousands who suffered just as greatly in the Holocost. The myth comes when a grudge is the sole reason for being of an entire mation. The myth comes in a people who claim to be persecuted yet deploy the sons of sons of victims to accost an ancient man for doing what he had to to survive a terrible era. There is no way one can really deny it happened. It is only too easy to wonder if some may very well have been elaborated upon for dramatic purpose

You'll stop defending the truth. Do you even know what the truth is?

Don't worry wolf, Colpy does take sides.
 
MHz
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Here try this --

It doesn't surprise me that you would purchase a book that starts with "The Complete Idiot's Guide......." LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

But hey, don't let education get in the way of historic fact.

Like these facts?
--
70 - 1899

A.D.
70
Destruction of the Second Temple by Roman Emperor Titus.
132-135
Bar Kokhba revolt suppressed. Jews barred from Jerusalem and Emperor Hadrian builds new pagan city of Aelia Capitolina on its ruins.
330-640
Palestine under Byzantine rule: Jerusalem and Palestine increasingly Christianized.
638
Arabs under the Caliph 'Umar capture Palestine from Byzantines.
661-750
Umayyad caliphs rule Palestine from Damascus. Dynasty descended from Umayya of Meccan tribe of Quraysh. Construction of Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem by Caliph 'Abd al-Malik (685-705). Construction of al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem by Caliph al-Walid I (705-715).
750-1258
'Abbasid caliphs rule Palestine from Iraq. Dynasty, founded by Abu al-' Abbas al-Saffah, who is descended from' Abbas, uncle of the Prophet.
969
Fatimid dynasty, claiming descent from the Prophet's daughter Fatima and her cousin 'Ali, rule Palestine from Egypt. They proclaim themselves caliphs in rivalry to the' Abbasids.
1071
Saljuqs, originally from Isfahan, capture Jerusalem and parts of Palestine, which remains officially within the 'Abbasid Empire.
1099-1187
Crusaders establish the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem.
1187
Kurdish general Saladin (Salah al-Din who was born in Takrit northern Iraq, the birth place of Saddam Hussein too), son of Ayyub, the sultan of Mosul, defeats Crusaders at -- in northern Palestine and recaptures Jerusalem. The Ayyubid dynasty rules Palestine from Cairo.
1260
Mamluks succeed Ayyubids, ruling Palestine from Cairo; defeat Mongols at Battle of 'Ayn Jalut near Nazareth.
1291
Mamluks capture final Crusader strongholds of -- and --.
1516-1917
Palestine incorporated into the Ottoman Empire with its capital in Istanbul.
1832-1840
Muhammad 'Ali Pasha of Egypt occupies Palestine. Ottomans subsequently reassert their rule.
1876-1877
Palestinian deputies from Jerusalem attend the first Ottoman Parliament in Istanbul, elected under a new Ottoman Constitution.
1878
The first modern Zionist agricultural settlement of Petach Tiqwa established (-- to learn more about Zionist and its impact on the Palestinian people).
1882-1903
First wave of 25,000 Zionist immigrants enters Palestine, coming mainly from eastern Europe.
1882
Baron Edmond de Rothschild of Paris starts financial backing for Jewish settlement in Palestine.
1887-1888
Palestine divided by Ottomans into the districts (sanjaks) of Jerusalem, Nablus, and --. The first was attached directly to Istanbul, the others to the wilayet of Beirut.
1896
Theodor Herzl, an Austro-Hungarian Jewish journalist and writer, publishes Der Judenstaat, advocating establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine or elsewhere.
1896
Jewish Colonization Association, founded in 1891 in London by German Baron Maurice de Hirsch, starts aiding Zionist settlements in Palestine.
1897
First Zionist Congress in Switzerland issues the Basle Program calling for the establishment of a "home for the Jewish people in Palestine." It also establishes the World Zionist Organization (WZO) to work to that end.

--
1900 - 1918

1901
Jewish National Fund (JNF) set up by fifth Zionist Congress in Basle to acquire land for WZO; land acquired by JNF to be inalienably Jewish, and exclusively Jewish labor to be employed on it, -- to read to Zionist apartheid & racist quotes.
1904-1914
Second wave of about 40,000 Zionist immigrants increases Jewish population in Palestine to -- of total. Since the inception of Zionism it has been claiming that Palestinian was an empty country, -- to read our rebuttal to this argument.
1909
Establishment of the first kibbutz, based exclusively on Jewish labor. Tel Aviv founded north of --.
1914
World War I starts.
1916
30 January
Husayn-McMahon correspondence between Sharif Husayn of Mecca (leader of the Arab Revolt against the Ottomans) and Sir Henry McMahon (British High Commissioner of Egypt) ends in agreement for postwar independence and unity of Arab provinces of Ottoman Empire.
16 May
Sykes-Picot Agreement secretly signed, dividing Arab provinces of Ottoman Empire between Britain and France. Agreement revealed by Bolsheviks in December 1917.
June
Sharif Husayn proclaims Arab independence from Ottomans. Arab Revolt against Istanbul begins.
1917
2 November
--. British Secretary of State Balfour pledges British support for "a Jewish national home in Palestine."
1918
September
Palestine occupied by Allied forces under British General Allenby.
30 October
World War I ends.

--
1919 - 1922

1919-1923
Third wave of over 35,000 Zionist immigrants increases Jewish population in Palestine to 12% of total. Registered Jewish landownership (1923) totals 3% of area of country.
1919
27 January-10 February
First Palestinian National Congress in Jerusalem sends memoranda to Paris Peace Conference rejecting -- and demanding independence.
28 August
Paris Peace Conference sends Commission of Inquiry to Near East, led by U.S. commission members Henry C. King and Charles Crane. England and France decline to participate. Commission recommends "serious modification" of idea of "making Palestine distinctly a Jewish Commonwealth."
1920
April
Disturbances in Palestine; 5 Jews killed, 200 wounded. British appoint Palin Commission of Inquiry .Commission report attributes troubles to none fulfillment of promises of Arab independence and fear of political and economic consequences of Zionism.
25 April
Palestine Mandate assigned to Britain by Supreme Council of San Remo Peace Conference.
May
British prevent Second Palestinian National Congress from convening.
1 July
High Commissioner, Sir Herbert Samuel, an Anglo-Jewish politician, inaugurates British civilian administration.
December
Third Palestinian National Congress, meeting in --, elects Executive Committee, which remains in control of Palestinian political movement from 1920 to 1935.
1921
March
Founding of the Haganah, the Zionists' illegal underground military organization.
1 May
Disturbances in -- protesting large-scale Zionist immigration; 46 Jews killed, 146 wounded. British Haycraft Commission of Inquiry (October) attributes disturbances to fears of Zionist mass immigration.
8 May
Haj Amin al-Husayni appointed Multi of Jerusalem.
May-June
Fourth Palestinian National Congress, convening in Jerusalem, decides to send a Palestinian delegation to London to explain the Palestinian case against the --.
1922
3 June
British colonial secretary Winston Churchill issues White Paper excluding Transjordan from scope of --. Ignoring political criteria, White Paper authorizes Jewish immigration according to "economic absorptive capacity" of the country.
24 July
League of Nations Council approves Mandate for Palestine.
August
Fifth Palestinian National Congress, meeting in Nablus, agrees to economic boycott of Zionists (see 1901 entry on JNF).
October
First British census of Palestine shows population of 757,182 -78% Muslim Arab, 11% Jewish, 9.6% Christian Arab. It is often claimed that Palestine was empty until Zionist Jews made the Palestinian desert bloom, --to read our response to this argument.

--
1923 - 1931

1923
29 September
British Mandate for Palestine comes officially into force.
1924-1928
Fourth wave of 67,000 Zionist immigrants, over 50% from Poland, increases Jewish population of Palestine to 16% of total. Registered Jewish landownership (192 totals 4.2% of area of country. -- to view a map illustrating a breakdown of Palestinian-Zionist landownership per district as of 1945.
1925
Revisionist Party, founded in Paris by Polish Zionist --, demands establishment of Jewish state in Palestine and Transjordan and stresses military aspects of Zionism.
October
Sixth Palestinian National Congress convenes in --.
1928
June
Seventh Palestinian National Congress convenes in Jerusalem.
1929-1939
Fifth wave of over 250,000 -- of total. Registered Jewish landownership (1939) --.
1929
August
Riots arise out of dispute between Jews and Palestinians over claims to Wailing (Western) Wall in Jerusalem, a site holy to Muslims and Jews. In resulting clashes 133 Jews killed and 339 wounded, 116 Palestinians killed and 232 wounded, the latter mainly by British military .
October
General Palestinian conference meets in Jerusalem to formulate position on Wailing Wall controversy.
1930
14 January
League of Nations appoints international commission to investigate legal status of Arabs and Jews at Wailing Wall.
March
British Shaw Palestinian Commission of Inquiry attributes 1929 disturbances to Palestinian fears of Jewish immigration "not only as a menace to their livelihood but as a possible overlord of the future."
October
British Hope-Simpson report on land settlement, immigration, and development in Palestine concludes that there is not sufficient agricultural land for substantially increased numbers of Jewish settlers.
British Colonial Secretary , Lord Passfield, issues White Paper which takes note of views of Hope-Simpson and Shaw commissions of inquiry.
1931
Irgun Zvai Leumi (National Military Organization), Irgun or IZL for short, founded by Revisionist groups and dissidents from Haganah, advocates a more militant policy against Palestinians. -- is commander-in-chief.
14 February
British prime minister Ramsay MacDonald in a letter to Zionist leader -- virtually retracts Passfield White Paper.
18 November
Second British census of Palestine shows population of 1,035,154-73% Muslim Arab, 16.9% Jewish, 8.6% Christian Arab.
December
Lewis French, British director of development for Palestine, publishes report on "landless Arabs," caused by Zionist colonization.

--
1932 - 1938

1933
14 July
British Secretary of State issues statement on resettlement of Palestinian farmers displaced from land acquired by Zionists.
1935
October
Revisionists quit -- (WZO) to form New Zionist Organization with aim of "liberating" Palestine and Transjordan.
November
--, Muslim cleric from Haifa, leader of first Palestinian guerrilla group fighting British policy in Palestine, killed in action against British security forces.
1936
25 April
Leaders of Palestinian political parties form Higher Arab Committee under Chairman Haj Amin al-Husseini.
8 May
Conference of Palestinian National Committees in Jerusalem calls for no taxation without representation. Great Rebellion begins.
25 August
Lebanese guerrilla leader Fawzi al-Qawuqji enters Palestine leading 150 volunteers from Arab countries to help fight British.
11 November
Royal Commission headed by Lord Peel arrives in Palestine.
1937
18 January
Royal Commission leaves Palestine.
April
IZL/Irgun, linked to Revisionist movement under -- reorganizes and advocates armed attacks on Palestinians.
7 July
-- report recommends partitioning Palestine into Jewish state comprising 33% of country including Haifa, Galilee, and coastal plain north of Isdud; Arab state in rest of country (to become part of Transjordan); and British mandatory enclaves including Jerusalem. Part of Palestinian population --, if necessary, from Jewish state, -- to learn how deeply the concept of "transfer" (Ethnic Cleansing) is entrenched in the Zionist theology.
23 July
Arab Higher Committee rejects Royal Commission proposal and demands independent unitary Palestine with protection of "legitimate Jewish and other minority rights" and the safeguarding of British interests. Rebellion intensifies.
September
Arab National Congress at Bludan, Syria, attended by 450 delegates from Arab countries, rejects partition proposal, demands end to Mandate, a stop to Zionist immigration, and prohibition of transfer of Palestinian lands to Zionist ownership.
1 October
British dissolve Arab Higher Committee and all Palestinian political organizations. Five Palestinian leaders deported. Haj Amin al-Husayni escapes to Lebanon.
11 November
British establish military courts to counter Palestinian rebellion.
1938
April-August
IZL/Irgun bombings kill 119 Palestinians. Palestinian bombs and mines kill 8 Jews.
June
British officer Orde Wingate organizes Special Night Squads of British and Haganah personnel for operations against Palestinian villages.
18 October
British military commanders take over administration from district commissioners to help suppress rebellion. Reinforcements brought from England.
19 October
British recapture Old City of Jerusalem from Palestinian rebels.
9 November
Report of British Woodhead technical commission of inquiry (January-April 193 declares impracticability of --. British call for general conference on Palestine in London attended by Arabs, Palestinians, and Zionists.

--
1939 - 1946

1939
7 February
London Conference starts.
27 March
London Conference ends without agreement.
22-23 May
British House of Commons votes 268 to 179 in favor of White Paper issued by Colonial Secretary of State Malcolm MacDonald. White Paper calls for conditional independence for unitary Palestinian state after ten years; admission of 15,000 Jewish immigrants annually into Palestine for five years, with immigration after that subject to "Arab acquiescence" ; protection of Palestinian land rights against Zionist acquisition. British official estimates of Palestinians killed or executed by British military and police during Arab Rebellion is over 2,000 for 1936 and 1938 alone. Total for all years is estimated at 3,500-4,000. About 500 Jews killed in same period.
1 September
World War 11 begins.
October
Stern Gang or Lochemay Herut Yisra'el (LEHI; "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel") formed by dissident IZL members led by Avraham Stern.
1940-1945
Arrival of over 60,000 Zionist immigrants, including 20-25,000 who have entered the country illegally (April 1939-December 1945), increases Jewish population in Palestine to 31% of total. Registered Jewish landownership rises to 6.0% of area of country.
1940
28 February
Land Transfers Regulations, suggested by 1939 White Paper to protect Palestinian land rights against Zionist acquisition, enter into force.
1942
February
Avraham Stern killed by British police. It should be noted that the Stern gang received extensive financial and military support from the Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy to terrorize the British Mandate in Palestine. -- to learn more about the subject.
May
Biltmore Conference in New York attended by Zionist leaders from U.S. and Palestine, urges that "Palestine be established as a Jewish commonwealth."
1943
November
Five-year limit on Jewish immigration (expiring April 1944) extended so all 75,000 visas permitted in 1939 White Paper can be filled.
1944
January
Stern Gang and IZL join to conduct terror campaign against British.
6 November
Stern Gang murders Lord Moyne, British resident minister of state, in Cairo.
1945
8 May
End of World War in Europe.
September
Large-scale illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine resumes under Haganah control.
13 November
British foreign secretary Ernest Bevin issues White Paper announcing continued Jewish immigration into Palestine after exhaustion of 1939 White Paper quota.
1946
6 March
Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, proposed in 1945 White Paper, arrives in Palestine.
May
Anglo-American Committee report estimates size of Jewish armed forces at around 61-69,000 people (Haganah: 58-64,000; IZL: 3-5,000; Stern: 2-300) and declares "private armies" illegal. Recommends admission of 100,000 Jews into Palestine and abolition of Land Transfers Regulations. Palestinians strike in protest.
11-12 June
Arab League meeting in Bludan, Syria, adopts secret resolutions warning Britain and U .S. that disregard for Palestinian rights will damage their oil and commercial interests in Arab world.
July
British White Paper on terrorism in Palestine accuses Haganah of cooperating with IZL and Stern Gang in acts of sabotage and violence.
22 July
Ninety-one British, Palestinian, and Jewish civil servants and visitors killed when IZL blows up wing of King David Hotel in Jerusalem housing British government secretariat.
31 July
Anglo-American Conference in London produces Morrison-Grady Plan proposing federal scheme to solve Palestine problem. Zionist and Palestinian leaders reject the plan.

--
1947

26 January
London Round Table conference reopens.
7-10 February
British foreign secretary Ernest Bevin proposes variant of Morrison-Grady Plan to London Conference and Jewish Agency. Arab delegates in London and Jewish Agency reject proposal.
18 February
Bevin announces submission of Palestine problem to United
Nations.
28 April-15 May
UN General Assembly special session on Palestine problem leads to appointment of eleven-member Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).
8 September
Publication of UNSCOP report. Majority of members recommends partition, minority recommends federal solution.
16-19 September
Arab League denounces UNSCOP partition recommendation, and appoints Technical Military Committee to supervise Palestinian defense needs.
26 September
Arthur Creech Jones, British colonial secretary, announces Britain's decision to end Palestine Mandate.
29 September
Arab Higher Committee rejects partition.
2 October
Jewish Agency accepts partition.
7-15 October
Arab League meets at Aley, Lebanon. Iraqi General Isma'il Safwat, chairman of Technical Committee, warns of dangers posed by Zionism at end of Mandate and urges Arab states to mobilize their utmost force and efforts to counter Zionist intentions." One million pounds sterling allocated to Technical Military Committee.
29 October
Britain says it will leave Palestine in six months if no settle-
ment reached.
27 November
Report by Safwat warns of virtual impossibility of overcoming Zionist forces with irregulars; urges prompt Arab action in organizing military force; advocates training Palestinians to defend themselves.
29 November
UN General Assembly recommends variant of UNSCOP partition plan allocating 56.5% of Palestine to Jewish state and 43% to Arab state with international enclave around Jerusalem; 33 votes for, 13 against, 10 abstentions. Arab representatives walk out (-- to read more why Arabs rejected the U.N. partition plan).
30 November
Haganah calls up Jews in Palestine aged 17-25 to register for military service.
December
Arab League organizes Arab Liberation Army (ALA), a voluntary force of Arab irregulars under guerrilla leader Fawzi al-Qawuqji to help Palestinians resist partition.
2 December
Palestinians start three-day strike protesting UN Partition Resolution. Intercommunal clashes leave 8 Jews and 6 Palestinians dead.
8 December
Britain recommends to UN that Palestine Mandate be terminated on 15 May 1948 and independent Jewish and Palestinian states be established two weeks later.
8-17 December
Arab League Political Committee meeting in Cairo declares partition illegal and resolves to provide 10,000 rifles, 3,000 volunteers (including 500 Palestinians) and a further 1,000,000 pounds sterling to Technical Military Committee.
15 December
British announce intention to hand over policing in Tel Aviv-Petach Tiqwa area to Jews and in -- to Palestinians.
17 December
Jewish Agency Executive reports that American Jews will be asked for $250 million to help Jewish community in Palestine.
21 December-late March 1948
Haganah and IZL attack villages and Bedouin settlements of coastal plain north of Tel Aviv in first coastal "clearing" operation.
31 December
Haganah and IZL paramilitary gangs perpetrate -- (--) massacre, in which more than 60 civilians are murdered.
December 1947-January 1948
Arab Higher Committee organizes 275 local committees for defense of Palestinian towns and villages.

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