Polar bears turn cannibalistic as climate change depletes arctic food supply


Retired_Can_Soldier
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Enjoy the northern lights,good time of year for them.

I have my camera at the ready.
 
Kakato
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

I have my camera at the ready.

You will freeze your hands,you just cant pull away,it's allways just a few more seconds and then whoooosh,more colors!
Take lots of film or extra mem. cards and make sure you hit buffalo's hanger and say hello to Joe.
He has an impressive collection of old planes.
 
DaSleeper
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

In approximately two weeks I am going to Yellowknife. For six weeks I will be running the ice roads. When I get back we will put this global warming business to rest once and for all.

If you happen to make a run as far as Ekati Diamond Mine in the territories look up the cook there, he comes from Kap....On them Ice roads just keep the trailer behind you..
 
lone wolf
#64
I had a friend driving the Mackenzie a few years ago. He's a dyed-in-the-wool Leafs fan and all he could get was Canucks, Oilers or Flames games on radio so he'd call me on R/T and listen to the Leafs game from my TV
 
JLM
#65
I'm not so sure it's only polar bears that turn cannabalistic when the grub runs out!
 
L Gilbert
+1
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

I've seen bears eat bears,griz,blacks and polars,seen Arctic fox kill their offspring,in fact a father will actually seek out the kits and kill and eat them.Thats normal,no matter what anyone seems to think.

Yup, but do you follow the rates of this type of kill across the Arctic enough to say that it isn't more prevalent now than before?
Quote:

Polar bears dont drown unless being run by a boat,they are not fast swimmers but have been known to swim for days,thats been well documented and I have seen it and heard how the Innuit do hunt them while I lived and worked with them.

So that means they don't drown from being too far from land or ice, according to you. I see. I too, have heard they can swim for up to 2 weeks. That's GROWN bears. Cubs can't. In case you can't quite grasp the implications, fewer cubs means smaller bear population.

Polar bear cubs drowning due to sea ice loss, says report | Environment | guardian.co.uk (external - login to view)

Melting Sea Ice Forcing Polar Bears to Swim Longer Distances, Linked to Increased Mortality of Cubs, Finds New Study (external - login to view)

Marathon Swims For Polar Bears As Ice Melts : Discovery News (external - login to view)

Quote:

The thing about all this fearmongering is it detracts from real conservationalism and the real problems faceing the arctic,like the boy who called wolf,soon people will just start ignoring the real problems.

Fearmongering? lol It's more like facing the facts.
So what are the "real" problems, according to you?

Quote:

Polar bears arent starving,the Innuit arent killing emanciated bears.
Polar bears have no problem living on land,they are very adaptable,like the griz who used to be prarie dwellers.
Bears are opportunists,they dont care where they get food,it can be a dump,the sea or the tundra,they go where the easiest food is,there is no shortage of food on the tundra,at the camp we were at this year in the arctic we were far from the sea yet wandering bears on the tundra were a daily thing,they can have a range a few hundred kilometers square,very well known by anyone who knows bears.
Polar bears are cannabilistic,so are blacks and Griz,nothing new here,anyone whos spent time in the bush knows this.

Yeah we have bears here, too. But have you ever seen a polar hunt and kill a caribou (as you implied in a previous post)? Can they switch from hunting seal in ice to hunting these caribou within a week? A month? What do polars eat when they are on land? Wouldn't they eat the same sort of stuff that grizzly do? Doesn't that mean increased competition for food between Grizzly and Polar? Is food that plentiful in the Arctic that bear populations can still thrive?
Come on, Mr. Ecological Genius, tell us po stoopid folks.

Quote:

Environmental fearmongering is a huge bussiness,as you can see by some of the more ignorant comments on this topic,it scares people and they cough up money for grants,it's a huge scam and people who have experience in the bush know this.

uhuh And denial of facts is just as big a business.
Quote:

I've been working in the mountains and spent many years in the arctic,in 35 years I have spent 34 of them in the bush away from most people.I see more bears in a year then most will see in their lifetime,I think that counts for something.

Yup. But merely seeing bears while running camps, driving Cat, etc. and studying them for a living are two quite different issues. I have spent an awful lot of time in the bush as well, but I'd never be arrogant to consider myself an expert on bears.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I guess this Inuit hunter must be full if shyte

Inuit hunter takes climate-change message to Durban conference - The Globe and Mail

The guy must be lying. Or else he's not as much of an expert as Kak.
 
Tonington
+1
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

The guy must be lying. Or else he's not as much of an expert as Kak.

He probably doesn't have a Supervisor's Certificate. Apparently the Occupational Health and Safety Regulations in Nunavut grant expert status in everything to anyone holding a Supervisor's Certificate. Can't have anyone second guessing the management after all. Managers know all.
 
gerryh
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

He probably doesn't have a Supervisor's Certificate. Apparently the Occupational Health and Safety Regulations in Nunavut grant expert status in everything to anyone holding a Supervisor's Certificate. Can't have anyone second guessing the management after all. Managers know all.


Not only is he an expert on the arctic, if you remember back, he's also an expert in oil sands reclamation.
 
Tonington
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Not only is he an expert on the arctic, if you remember back, he's also an expert in oil sands reclamation.

I do remember that one as well.

I'm sure that's not all. Some day someone will post a topic about something else, and Kakato will be there to set the record straight. He probably even has a picture.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Stick to selling furnaces ger.

Why should he? Because he can find other LOCAL experts who disagree with you?

Quote:

I flew through there many times and no one fell through the ice and the ice freezes and melts same time give or take 2 weeks.

No-one fell through the ice? Go figure. Let me see: average weight of male human = about 185. Average weight of bear = 700. People can walk on ice as thin as an inch.
Give or take two weeks? You have your research to back up your impression that Arctic ice is doing just fine?
Or do we just go on faith that your calendar is not prone to variance? lmao

psc.apl.washington.edu/Arctic...alyCurrent.png (external - login to view)

wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...ly-arctic1.png (external - login to view)

Yeah, all the people who study this stuff for a living are wrong, and you, who doesn't make a living studying this, is right. uhuh

Quote:

Thats also where the Churchill bears pass through on their way north,funny how just north of Arviet at Rankin Inlet they encourage the people to do civil disobediance by claiming their useing self defense for hunting polars when the govt. cut back the quota's after public outcry from southerners who have never been north.

Cute little anecdote. Who are "they"?

Quote:

So whole towns will dis agree with that fellow,

I'd like to hear from those towns, not just accept your opinion that they'll disagree.
Quote:

sorry but thats the way it is.

Well, at least that's the way your opinion is, anyway.
Quote:

Barges freeze in same time every year on the Hudsons,so much for melting ice.

uhuh

This is from 2005: umanitoba.ca/faculties/scienc...ineMammSci.pdf (external - login to view)

This is more recent: CBC.ca News - Climate change leaves some Hudson Bay polar bears starving

Ice posing polar problems - Brandon Sun (external - login to view)

But everyone else is wrong, and you're right. ooooooookaaaaaay
Last edited by L Gilbert; Jan 13th, 2012 at 02:54 PM..
 
Tonington
+1
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

This is from 2005: umanitoba.ca/faculties/scienc...ineMammSci.pdf (external - login to view)

Ice break-up .78 days earlier each year. Maybe Kakato has a library of pictures with the date of spring break-up,from all that time as a manager up there.

For the same region of the Hudson Bay, this paper also found break-up was occurring by a little over 0.8 days earlier each year in the Western Hudson's Bay. For the North-Central Hudson's Bay, they found ice is breaking up about 0.3 days earlier each year:
arctic.synergiesprairies.ca/a...ewFile/451/483 (external - login to view)
 
L Gilbert
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Ice break-up .78 days earlier each year. Maybe Kakato has a library of pictures with the date of spring break-up,from all that time as a manager up there.

For the same region of the Hudson Bay, this paper also found break-up was occurring by a little over 0.8 days earlier each year in the Western Hudson's Bay. For the North-Central Hudson's Bay, they found ice is breaking up about 0.3 days earlier each year:
arctic.synergiesprairies.ca/a...ewFile/451/483 (external - login to view)

lol Yeah I saw that, too. Um, I wonder if Kak would consider those 0.78, 0.8, and 0.3 days within his "two weeks, give or take". lol
 
Kakato
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Not only is he an expert on the arctic, if you remember back, he's also an expert in oil sands reclamation.

I'm not the expert,Canadian dewatering who I was working for was the experts as it's their process that every single oilsands producer is now useing,try and pay attention.I explained how it worked long before it was in the news and if you go back and read my posts and then google what process that is the basis for reclaiming tailings ponds you will see I was bang on the money.
Stick to selling furnaces ger,or take your hate somewhere else if you got nothing to do but troll.
 
lone wolf
#74
Defend then insult. Draw your own conclusions...
 
Kakato
+1
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

lol Yeah I saw that, too. Um, I wonder if Kak would consider those 0.78, 0.8, and 0.3 days within his "two weeks, give or take". lol


No,I just knew when we had to shut down our ice road and airstrips,breakup is usually June and if you understood permafrost you would know why breakup only takes a week.
I relied on experts,First air isnt going to land a c130 herc on ice unless they are damn sure it's thick enough so they are the ones that tell me when it's too thin or thick enough that they can start sending the first of allmost 100 flights..
Same with ice roads,expert profilers that only do that come and test the ice,you really dont understand how the arctic works but thats ok,I didnt either untill I started working there.
As for freeze up on the Hudsons,they sail the barges untill they freeze in and the timeline varies,you cant predict the weather up there except for september comes and the sun dissapears then it freezes,in june it thaws and a freak rainstorm will speed up spring break twice as fast.
Meltwater cant go into the ground so guess where it go's?
 
L Gilbert
+1
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

No,I just knew when we had to shut down our ice road and airstrips,breakup is usually June and if you understood permafrost you would know why breakup only takes a week.

So you can't be anymore specific about breakup than that? lol
I don't think you quite understood what the links I provided said. Those fractions of days happen from year to year. And what they mean is that every year breakup happens a fraction of a day earlier than the last year. So given a time period like a week, it would take 7 years for breakup to happen a week earlier. Or can you grasp that yet?
I don't understand permafrost? Really? How would you know what I know? Are you THAT much of a know-it-all?
Quote:

I relied on experts,First air isnt going to land a c130 herc on ice unless they are damn sure it's thick enough so they are the ones that tell me when it's too thin or thick enough that they can start sending the first of allmost 100 flights..
Same with ice roads,expert profilers that only do that come and test the ice,you really dont understand how the arctic works but thats ok,I didnt either untill I started working there.

oooo A Herc? Aren't I impressed. I don't know "how the Arctic works"? lmao Another anecdote and baseless ASSumption.
Quote:

As for freeze up on the Hudsons,they sail the barges untill they freeze in and the timeline varies,you cant predict the weather up there except for september comes and the sun dissapears then it freezes,in june it thaws and a freak rainstorm will speed up spring break twice as fast.
Meltwater cant go into the ground so guess where it go's?

Ah. More anecdote, no verifiable data. Oh, yeah, that'll convince me more than researched fact will.

Do you have ANY evidence at all or do you continue to hope we have faith that you are correct about everything and anything?
Last edited by L Gilbert; Jan 13th, 2012 at 04:37 PM..
 
Tonington
#77
The date of break up is occurring earlier, and freeze up is occurring later...the physics remains the same, I wonder what could be accounting for earlier break up and later freeze up? Does temperature have anything to do with the freezing point of water? Hmmm?
 
Kakato
+1
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Ah. More anecdote, no verifiable data. Oh, yeah, that'll convince me more than researched fact will.

Do you have ANY evidence at all or do you continue to hope we have faith that you are correct about everything and anything?

I could care less myself what you think,I tried to explain this a long time ago in an educational fashion and get ger and a few other immature trolls asking for creds,so I give it to them and they cry and whine,dont like it then too bad.
I had the pleasure and luck of working with some of the most experienced Arctic people in Canada and they are well known all over Nunavut and are the best of the best or they wouldnt keep getting paid to go back.

So if I share the knowledge I learned from them here and you think it's B.S then maybe if you ever get the chance to go up there you can see for yourself or continue to rely on what CBC put's on the net or most of the other crap I have seen posted from people who have never seen the arctic.

Have a good day,troll on!

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

The date of break up is occurring earlier, and freeze up is occurring later...the physics remains the same, I wonder what could be accounting for earlier break up and later freeze up? Does temperature have anything to do with the freezing point of water? Hmmm?


I explained it many times and i'll do it one more time just for you.
Meltwater will not penetrate permafrost,therefore it runs down to the lake or sea melting the edges,wind blows ice,ice breaks up,water is open,a freak rainstorm will speed up breakup by a week.
The eastern arctic north of Hudsons bay will still have ice up to ten feet thick yet it's not attached to the land anymore so guess what happens in the high winds?

This is so simple that I cant understand why some cant process this info,maybe because they equate the Arctic to the ice down south?
Boggles the mind.
You cant compare the arctic to the south,thats what a lot of you are doing,it's totally different and even if you have 20 years experience in the south in my type of work you will still be a noob up north for at least a year.
 
Tonington
+1
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

This is so simple that I cant understand why some cant process this info,maybe because they equate the Arctic to the ice down south?

Nobody here is confused by what causes the ice to break up. If you try reading, you'll notice that what you're saying here in no way explains the how and when. How ice melts is not a mystery, indeed why it's melting earlier is not a mystery, except of course for you for whatever reason. You claimed ice is not breaking up earlier, but the data clearly shows that it is.

Please explain why, with a warming Arctic we should not expect earlier spring melt, and how the results of many different researchers who have all come to the same conclusion could be wrong.

Or maybe it's that you don't even accept that the Arctic is warming faster than almost every other region on the globe. I guess that would explain a lot.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#80
here, read this Kak:

Northern Research Portal: "Global Warming in the North: Extreme Climate, Unpredictable Change" Exhibit - University of Saskatchewan (external - login to view)

Question 1 – Tell us your Stories | OOKPIK (external - login to view)

www.ccme.ca/assets/pdf/cc_ind...wayslife_e.pdf (external - login to view)

In 2000-2001, Vuntut Gwitchin residents of Old Crow, Yukon reported that, “We had only about two cold spells before Christmas. Because of the snow depth, it left the lakes and river with a lot of overflow, open water and hard to travel. There were a lot of problems with wet snow.” Arctic Borderland Ecological Knowledge Co-op, Report Series Number 2001-2.

So I guess you, C. Darwin Kakato, are more of an expert than those residents of the north?
 
Kakato
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

The date of break up is occurring earlier, and freeze up is occurring later...the physics remains the same, I wonder what could be accounting for earlier break up and later freeze up? Does temperature have anything to do with the freezing point of water? Hmmm?

Well if you ask the Innuit,by september 15 if the tundra is still red,you have at least 2 more weeks before getting out,maybe a month.
They dont have access to all the graphs and shi* so we rely on their experience and have kept camps open based on this information.
Their is no set date for breakup and it cant be measured in days or hours.
Anyone who thinks they can predict Arctic weather has never been there.
Heres global warming then?
 
L Gilbert
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Well if you ask the Innuit,by september 15 if the tundra is still red,you have at least 2 more weeks before getting out,maybe a month.
They dont have access to all the graphs and shi* so we rely on their experience and have kept camps open based on this information.

I posted some comments from residents.
Quote:

Their is no set date for breakup and it cant be measured in days or hours.
Anyone who thinks they can predict Arctic weather has never been there.
Heres global warming then?

Ah, but we aren't speaking in terms of weather strictly; we're speaking in terms of CLIMATE. Jeeeeezez
It might help if you'd learn the difference.
 
Tonington
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Anyone who thinks they can predict Arctic weather has never been there.

Who said anything about predicting? The weather is variable, but that doesn't mean that the tendency isn't towards earlier break up.

Are you going to attempt to explain why we shouldn't expect this or not?
 
Kakato
#84
Jheeesh,so Gilbert your saying that the weather has nothing to do with climate change?
Wow! Not once have I ever said the climate isnt changing,another ice age is coming and maybe folks should try being proactive and do something to adjust instead of just whining and crying about something they cant do anything about.
Like the polar bears do,they move along,like the grizzly did when man pushed them off their home territory which was the praries.They moved on to greener pastures.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Jheeesh,so Gilbert your saying that the weather has nothing to do with climate change?

lmao No. Comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it.
Quote:

Wow! Not once have I ever said the climate isnt changing,another ice age is coming

Perhaps, but not before the globe finishes warming. And it hasn't done that yet.
Quote:

and maybe folks should try being proactive and do something to adjust instead of just whining and crying about something they cant do anything about.

Already planned for a variety of things here. Not whining about conditions either. Just whining about your ignorance and preference to stay ignorant.
Quote:

Like the polar bears do,they move along,like the grizzly did when man pushed them off their home territory which was the praries.They moved on to greener pastures.

uhuh And the polars, among other species might as well get used to a LOT more greenery.

Care to comment on what the natives and other residents said in the links I provided?

To bring up an old adage about not seeing the forest for the trees; I don't think Kak could see the forest because his goofy beak is buried in the crack in the bark of one tree.
 
Kakato
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

lmao No. Comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it.
Perhaps, but not before the globe finishes warming. And it hasn't done that yet. Already planned for a variety of things here. Not whining about conditions either. Just whining about your ignorance and preference to stay ignorant.
uhuh And the polars, among other species might as well get used to a LOT more greenery.

You never heard about the Beverly or Dorothy Caribou herds?
Trust me when I say that no bear wandering the tundra is going to starve. These are my pics.
Oh....it's a yearly migration cycle.




www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=c26a9504d3 (external - login to view)

More of my arctic albums in link above
 
L Gilbert
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

You never heard about the Beverly or Dorothy Caribou herds?

Who said I haven't?
Quote:

Trust me when I say that no bear wandering the tundra is going to starve.

not even 1?
Quote:

These are my pics.
Oh....it's a yearly migration cycle.


Uhuh. Pretty. Do you have photos from the same place at the same times every year for say the past decade in the various months of each year?
 
Kakato
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Who said I haven't?
not even 1? Uhuh. Pretty. Do you have photos from the same place at the same times every year for say the past decade in the various months of each year?

No but our assistant manager from Baker lake was one of the guys that headed up the project to build the snowfence along the Thelon river to divert the big herds to portage in a safer place as thats when they were drowning in the same crossing they used for years.
Yes he's Innuit and once again I never said the climate wasent changing,not once in any post I have ever made on this forum.
In case you are ignorant on the Tuk Tuk migration they allways cross the river just west of Baker lake on their annual migration east.
No shortage of food on the tundra dude.
 
lone wolf
#89
Maybe it's the talking down attitude.
 
DaSleeper
+2
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Maybe it's the talking down attitude.

Do you mean that the proponents of man made climate change don't talk down to those who won't subscribe to the Gore/Suzuki mantra?????
 

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