Confused about Christ?

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Whatever the "anti-christ" IS is irrelevant to me. That is just what I thought. It's been a while since I was religious, so I forget stuff. The following link shows what I was "educated" to believe:
Who or what is the "anti-christ?" | Catholic Answers

I don't believe it anymore. As I said, I doubt gods (or devils) give us lowly humans a thought. And I think it is pretty arrogant and egocentric to think that gods would stoop to give us a thought.
Yet that is what it ends up being. It is called playing by the rules. The 12 tribes are saved in their entirety on the day Re:20:4 is fulfilled, not because of any stellar performance but in-spite of it. The lack of guidance is the cause of that flaw and things get at their worst just before everything gets better at once and for all time.

Eze:36:19-29:
And I scattered them among the heathen,
and they were dispersed through the countries:
according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
And when they entered unto the heathen,
whither they went,
they profaned my holy name,
when they said to them,
These are the people of the LORD,
and are gone forth out of his land.
But I had pity for mine holy name,
which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen,
whither they went.
Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
I do not this for your sakes,
O house of Israel,
but for mine holy name's sake,
which ye have profaned among the heathen,
whither ye went.

And I will sanctify my great name,
which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them;
and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD,
saith the Lord GOD,
when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
For I will take you from among the heathen,
and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean:
from all your filthiness,
and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.
A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments,
and do them.
And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers;
and ye shall be my people,
and I will be your God.
I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
Gnosticism is the original Christianity and came long before Constantine had Jesus deified as Christ.

The gospel of Christ was introduced by God to ancient Israel centuries before ancient Greece spawned Gnosticism and before God enthroned the Roman emperor Constantine, Cliffy.

"And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel." (Genesis 3:15 NIV)
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Can you see this reference being about Eve and the 12 stars are 12 OT Prophets and their wives that were resurrected the same morning Jesus was and they ascended to God to be glorified but only Jesus came back (for 40 days which was the fasting that the disciples did that matched the 40 days in the wilderness when John baptized Jesus. God gave Eve pain in child-birth as part of her punishment.

Re:12:1:
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
a woman clothed with the sun,
and the moon under her feet,
and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Re:12:2:
And she being with child cried,
travailing in birth,
and pained to be delivered.

The next 'seed of Eve' is Mary, the mother of Jesus and the completion of the bruise to the heel determination. The temptation during the 40 day fast is how Satan tried to destroy Him. The last woman is the beloved disciple and 'her children will get the same level of protection that Jesus got for the 3 1/2 years'.

Re:12:4-6:
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven,
and did cast them to the earth:
and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered,
for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child,
who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:
and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness,
where she hath a place prepared of God,
that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

2Jo:1:1:
The elder unto the elect lady and her children,
whom I love in the truth;
and not I only,
but also all they that have known the truth;

2Jo:1:4:
I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth,
as we have received a commandment from the Father.

2Jo:1:13:
The children of thy elect sister greet thee.
Amen.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
The gospel of Christ was introduced by God to ancient Israel centuries before ancient Greece spawned Gnosticism and before God enthroned the Roman emperor Constantine, Cliffy.
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica]GNOSTICISM: ANCIENT AND MODERN[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica]HISTORY; ANCIENT SOURCES OF INFORMATION[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]History:

[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Gnosticism consisted of many syncretistic belief systems which combined elements taken from Asian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Syrian pagan religions, from astrology, and from Judaism and Christianity. They constituted one of the three main branches of early Christianity: the other two being: [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The remnants of the Jewish Christian sect which was founded by Jesus' disciples after his execution and centered in Jerusalem, and[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The churches started by Paul, that were eventually to grow and develop into "mainline" Christianity by the end of the third century.[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]By the second century CE, many very different Christian-Gnostic sects had formed within the Roman Empire at the eastern end of the Mediterranean. Some Gnostics worked within Jewish Christian and mainline Christian groups, and greatly influenced their beliefs from within. Others formed separate communities. Still others were solitary practitioners. [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] There does not seem to have been much formal organization among the Gnostics during the early centuries of the Christian movement. As mainline Christianity grew in strength and organization, Gnostic sects came under increasing pressure, oppression and persecution. They almost disappeared by the 6th century. The only group to have survived continuously from the 1st century CE into modern times is the Mandaean sect of Iraq and Iran. This group has about 15,000 members (one source says 1,500), and can trace their history continuously back to the original Gnostic movement.
Many new emerging religions in the West have adopted some ancient Gnostic beliefs and practices. By far, the most successful of these is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- the LDS or Mormon church, centered in Salt Lake City, UT.
The Gnostic faith is undergoing a resurgence in the 21st century, primarily in Western countries. The counter-cult movement and some other Christian ministries disseminate a great deal of misinformation about the movement. 1,2,3


GNOSTICISM - History & ancient sources of information

[/FONT]
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica]GNOSTICISM: ANCIENT AND MODERN[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica]HISTORY; ANCIENT SOURCES OF INFORMATION[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]History:

[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Gnosticism consisted of many syncretistic belief systems which combined elements taken from Asian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Syrian pagan religions, from astrology, and from Judaism and Christianity. They constituted one of the three main branches of early Christianity: the other two being: [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The remnants of the Jewish Christian sect which was founded by Jesus' disciples after his execution and centered in Jerusalem, and[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The churches started by Paul, that were eventually to grow and develop into "mainline" Christianity by the end of the third century.[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]By the second century CE, many very different Christian-Gnostic sects had formed within the Roman Empire at the eastern end of the Mediterranean. Some Gnostics worked within Jewish Christian and mainline Christian groups, and greatly influenced their beliefs from within. Others formed separate communities. Still others were solitary practitioners. [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] There does not seem to have been much formal organization among the Gnostics during the early centuries of the Christian movement. As mainline Christianity grew in strength and organization, Gnostic sects came under increasing pressure, oppression and persecution. They almost disappeared by the 6th century. The only group to have survived continuously from the 1st century CE into modern times is the Mandaean sect of Iraq and Iran. This group has about 15,000 members (one source says 1,500), and can trace their history continuously back to the original Gnostic movement.
Many new emerging religions in the West have adopted some ancient Gnostic beliefs and practices. By far, the most successful of these is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- the LDS or Mormon church, centered in Salt Lake City, UT.
The Gnostic faith is undergoing a resurgence in the 21st century, primarily in Western countries. The counter-cult movement and some other Christian ministries disseminate a great deal of misinformation about the movement. 1,2,3


GNOSTICISM - History & ancient sources of information

[/FONT]

The resource link you provided, Cliffy leads to a blog by a B. A. Robinson of ReligiousTolerance.org. Two of his listed resources lead to a site with the message: "Oops. We didn't find what you are looking for." The other two listed resources are Gnosticism apologetic blogs. I am only finding revisionist opinion and no apparent scholarship in this resource.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The gospel of Christ was introduced by God to ancient Israel centuries before ancient Greece spawned Gnosticism and before God enthroned the Roman emperor Constantine, Cliffy.

"And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel." (Genesis 3:15 NIV)

No place called Israel existed on earth before 1948. I know you don't have a clue about what that verse from Genesis is imparting.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
The resource link you provided, Cliffy leads to a blog by a B. A. Robinson of ReligiousTolerance.org. Two of his listed resources lead to a site with the message: "Oops. We didn't find what you are looking for." The other two listed resources are Gnosticism apologetic blogs. I am only finding revisionist opinion and no apparent scholarship in this resource.
And yet you constantly refer to the bible to justify your belief in the bible. I doubt I could find any source that disproves your allegations that would be acceptable to you. You have made up your mind, I have made up my mind and never the twain shall meet.

In a book entitled Der vorchristliche jiidische Gnosticismus, Friedldnder put forth the thesis that Gnosticism is a pre-Christian phenomenon which originated in antinomian circles in the Jewish community of Alexandria. This Gnosticism, against which Philo polemicizes, came early to Palestine; and the rabbinic polemics against the Minim are directed specifically at such Gnostics. Christian Gnosticism is simply a secondary version of the older Gnosticism' which attached itself to the emergent Christian sect and appropriated for itself the figure of Jesus Christ.
Jewish Origins of Gnosticism
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
No place called Israel existed on earth before 1948.

"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."
Brief History of Israel and the Jewish People
 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
Have you ever used Strongs?

MHZ has not used Strong's !? It can't be.:smile:
MHZ has extensive knowledge about the Bible, but his language is complex and not so clear.
I have also to say that he bases his belief on the Bible, while the Bible is undependable in fact.
So that once I said to him: how can you accept that God has any son? He said: this is written in the Bible that there were two persons in the start of the creation! This is as I remember?

No place called Israel existed on earth before 1948. I know you don't have a clue about what that verse from Genesis is imparting.

The important thing is that God has not commanded them to come.
In the past He commanded them to go to Jericho and they refused and rebelled, when the people of Jericho were idolaters or heathen; while now they come to Palestine when its people are Muslims worshipping God alone and they are not idolaters, and Zionsts has come when they are not commanded by God.
 
Last edited:

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
And yet you constantly refer to the bible to justify your belief in the bible. I doubt I could find any source that disproves your allegations that would be acceptable to you. You have made up your mind, I have made up my mind and never the twain shall meet.

In a book entitled Der vorchristliche jiidische Gnosticismus, Friedldnder put forth the thesis that Gnosticism is a pre-Christian phenomenon which originated in antinomian circles in the Jewish community of Alexandria. This Gnosticism, against which Philo polemicizes, came early to Palestine; and the rabbinic polemics against the Minim are directed specifically at such Gnostics. Christian Gnosticism is simply a secondary version of the older Gnosticism' which attached itself to the emergent Christian sect and appropriated for itself the figure of Jesus Christ.
Jewish Origins of Gnosticism

This is a Christian discussion thread, Cliffy. The Bible is Christian context. Mine is a biblical Christian worldview.

Certainly Greek Gnosticism was mixed with Judaism. The Bible presents a recurring history of Israel adopting the religious beliefs and practices of surrounding cultures. God warned them about this. God allowed them to be taken into captivity repeatedly. And God repeatedly delivered them from exile. In all this, a remnant of faithful believers was preserved by God.

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." (Romans 11:5 NIV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=remnant&qs_version=NIV
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."
Brief History of Israel and the Jewish People


Nothing of the sort has ever happened and archeological frauds of Israeli liars are well documented and you know nothing about Jewish continuity.

"The summits of secondary natures are most proximate to the bases of superior orders." This means plainly enough that if the two natures in man, animal and infant divine, are brought into juxtaposition in the same human organism, the point of contact between the two would normally be where the top or head of the lower self touches the feet or heel of the upper man. The picture is symbolical, to be sure. Atlas holding up the heavens on his shoulders is another portrayal of it. If a higher and a lower nature in man are in conflict, the abrasion, the friction,
20​
the reciprocal "bruising" must be at the point where the head of the lower touches the heel of the higher. And the Egyptian scripts state that the aeonial battle of Armageddon is fought on this dividing line between the beast and the god in man. The more we permit the Christly power in us to rule, the more completely are the six elemental energies, blind and unconscious, brought into the service of their Lord, the seventh. They are figuratively trampled under his feet. This is the meaning of the Christ’s power to tread on serpents and scorpions, the inferior six powers being typed as the serpent.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
MHZ has not used Strong's !? It can't be.:smile:
MHZ has extensive knowledge about the Bible, but his language is complex and not so clear.
I have also to say that he bases his belief on the Bible, while the Bible is undependable in fact.
So that once I said to him: how can you accept that God has any son? He said: this is written in the Bible that there were two persons in the start of the creation! This is as I remember?
I would have stated that in Ge:1 two beings are introduced in the first two verses, God and the Holy Spirit. They are the 'us' later in the chapter as being the model for mankind, Adam was designed to have a wife, that is why they were created male and female. God would be the witness in Ge:1 and the Holy Spirit would be the witness in Ge:2 as Ge:references the whole earth and Ge:2 references just the garden area after Adam was alive. Eve was created as the last event on day 6 while Adam was the first event of that day. Proverbs:8 is a 3rd witness and the text of that chapter is the 'resume' of the being that will be judging mankind and his 'wisdom' goes back to before God created anything, that is Christ alone. Those 3 are the only ones to have come from the 3rd heaven. The 1st heaven is from the surface of the earth to as high as the clouds go. That is where birds fly and above that would be the heaven from Ge:1:1 which is home to the 'sons of God' from Ge:3 and Ge:6.
The Great White Throne event is held in a place that still exists when this heaven and this earth have passed away.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

Re:20:11:
And I saw a great white throne,
and him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and there was found no place for them.

Heb:12:22:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb:12:23:
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

1Jo:5:7:
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father,
the Word,
and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.

2Co:12:2:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body,
I cannot tell;
or whether out of the body,
I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
such an one caught up to the third heaven.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Pope Rejects Lunch with Boehner, Pelosi, McConnell, Reid: He will be Dining with the Homeless

We now know why the United States Congress absolutely did not want Pope Francis to come to America. He makes them look like the complete as*holes they are. Obviously, Congress thought Pope Francis would be honored to dine with them, and all their pomp and prestige. They were wrong.
Pope Francis says he didn’t have the time because he already had a date eating with the homeless. In fact, he is not only going to be eating with them, but serving them. The meal will take place at St. Patrick’s Church in Washington, D.C.
Rather than try to write some great prose about this situation, Ring of Fire will simply quote Eric March from the website Upworthy, because he nailed it:
Unlike some of his predecessors, Francis has reminded journalists and world leaders time and time again that the church is for the poor, blasted the global financial system which causes so much poverty in the first place, and called on Catholics across the globe to take action and start lifting up the most vulnerable among them.
He’s also spoken out forcefully against economic inequality.
Including some of the worst, most exploitative labor practices in the world, which create conditions that allow hardship and desperation to thrive.
Blowing off John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi to serve the homeless is pretty much the kind of badassery we’ve come to expect from this pope when it comes to speaking up for the world’s most hard-up.


Pope Rejects Lunch with Boehner, Pelosi, McConnell, Reid: He will be Dining with the Homeless


Isn't this what Christianity is supposed to be about?







The Order of Jesus –which represented the Conservative yet most influential faction within the Catholic Church, closely associated with Argentina’s economic elites– was firmly behind the military Junta, against so-called “Leftists” in the Peronista movement.
“The Dirty War”: Allegations directed Against Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio

Condemning the military dictatorship (including its human rights violations) was a taboo within the Catholic Church. While the upper echelons of the Church were supportive of the military Junta, the grassroots of the Church was firmly opposed to the imposition of military rule.
In 2005, human rights lawyer Myriam Bregman filed a criminal suit against Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, accusing him of conspiring with the military junta in the 1976 kidnapping of two Jesuit priests.
Several years later, the survivors of the “Dirty War” openly accused Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of complicity in the kidnapping of priests Francisco Jalics y Orlando Yorio as well six members of their parish, (El Mundo, 8 November 2010)
(Image Left: Jorge Mario Bergoglio and General Jorge Videla)
Bergoglio, who at the time was “Provincial” for the Society of Jesus, had ordered the two “Leftist” Jesuit priests and opponents of military rule “to leave their pastoral work” (i.e. they were fired) following divisions within the Society of Jesus regarding the role of the Catholic Church and its relations to the military Junta.
While the two priests Francisco Jalics y Orlando Yorio, kidnapped by the death squads in May 1976 were released five months later. after having been tortured, six other people associated with their parish kidnapped as part of the same operation were “disappeared” (desaparecidos). These included four teachers associated with the parish and two of their husbands.“Washington’s Pope”? Who is Pope Francis? | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
...archeological frauds of Israeli liars are well documented...

Documentation, DB?

"The summits of secondary natures are most proximate to the bases of superior orders." This means plainly enough that if the two natures in man, animal and infant divine, are brought into juxtaposition in the same human organism, the point of contact between the two would normally be where the top or head of the lower self touches the feet or heel of the upper man. The picture is symbolical, to be sure. Atlas holding up the heavens on his shoulders is another portrayal of it. If a higher and a lower nature in man are in conflict, the abrasion, the friction,


20​




the reciprocal "bruising" must be at the point where the head of the lower touches the heel of the higher. And the Egyptian scripts state that the aeonial battle of Armageddon is fought on this dividing line between the beast and the god in man. The more we permit the Christly power in us to rule, the more completely are the six elemental energies, blind and unconscious, brought into the service of their Lord, the seventh. They are figuratively trampled under his feet. This is the
meaning of the Christ’s power to tread on serpents and scorpions, the inferior six powers being typed as the serpent.

Source?
 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
No, I am not confused about Christ. He's a mostly mythological hero character whose story has much in common with other stories about other such characters, and there almost certainly was a charismatic apocalyptic Jewish preacher in first century Palestine whose reality is the core of the myth. But resurrected Son o' God, miracle worker, redeemer, saviour? No, that's the mythological part.

How can you be sure of this?
For the distorted thing: son of God, resurrected OK this is not logical.
But for the Christ: a prophet and an apostle with teachings, and one hoped to be the saviour ... how can you ignore this and say: "I am not confused about Christ. He's a mostly mythological hero character ...etc."?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
How can you be sure of this?
For the distorted thing: son of God, resurrected OK this is not logical.
But for the Christ: a prophet and an apostle with teachings, and one hoped to be the saviour ... how can you ignore this and say: "I am not confused about Christ. He's a mostly mythological hero character ...etc."?

What proof do you have that he took a couple of fish and fed three thousand people?
 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
I would have stated that in Ge:1 two beings are introduced in the first two verses, God and the Holy Spirit. They are the 'us' later in the chapter as being the model for mankind, Adam was designed to have a wife, that is why they were created male and female. God would be the witness in Ge:1 and the Holy Spirit would be the witness in Ge:2 as Ge:references the whole earth and Ge:2 references just the garden area after Adam was alive. Eve was created as the last event on day 6 while Adam was the first event of that day. Proverbs:8 is a 3rd witness and the text of that chapter is the 'resume' of the being that will be judging mankind and his 'wisdom' goes back to before God created anything, that is Christ alone. Those 3 are the only ones to have come from the 3rd heaven. The 1st heaven is from the surface of the earth to as high as the clouds go. That is where birds fly and above that would be the heaven from Ge:1:1 which is home to the 'sons of God' from Ge:3 and Ge:6.
The Great White Throne event is held in a place that still exists when this heaven and this earth have passed away.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

Re:20:11:
And I saw a great white throne,
and him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and there was found no place for them.

Heb:12:22:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb:12:23:
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

1Jo:5:7:
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father,
the Word,
and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.

2Co:12:2:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body,
I cannot tell;
or whether out of the body,
I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
such an one caught up to the third heaven.

This extensive reply proves true my words: the derivation of the doctrine strictly from the Bible, which in fact is undependable: because in origin it is the Torah of Ezra and not the original one, and because of the passing of long time and because of the translations from Lattin into other languages and by many translators: the difference in language will cause a great confusion.

E.g. the heavenly Jerosalem:
Jerusalem means: the home of peace or the home of safety, so the translator thought it is Jerusalem, while it was in the meaning not in literal: the home of safety which is Paradise or Heaven or Kingdom of Heavens under the Throne where believers together with angel are dwelling.

And if we want to take the literal meaning of the word in its origin: there is for every material thing its true copy or image: that is ethereal spiritual not material; so the Paradise or Heaven is the issue of the material earth, therefore, the palaces, mansions, rivers, trees ...etc. are the image of their earthy original material cities, and one of these may be the city of Jerusalem, and the river Euphrates and other rivers and trees and mansions.

Abu Abdallah, Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly who is the apostle of the Christ; he was sent by the Christ to orient them about the truth and to correct the scriptures that have been distorted.
He was sent by the Christ: the one who inspired him about the year 1946 or so; the inspiring one was the Christ.
Abu Abdallah was a photographer, and he worked in a dark room for fixing the old type of films, when one said to him in clear words, but not in a hearable or audible voice: You are the Mahdi, so carry out your duty!
Abu Abdallah said: I seek refuge in God against the suggestions of Satan!
The inspirer said: I am not any devil; I tell you the truth.
Abu Abdallah said: How can I be the Mahdi, when the Mahdi is the son of Hassan Askari (according to the belief of Shiaa)?
The inspirer said: This is only the enthusiasm; no one may live one thousand years; so it is you that are the Mahdi.
Abu Abdallah said: How can I be the Mahdi, while the description of the Mahdi is written in books?
The inspirer said: Apply the description to yourself and see the result.

Abu Abdallah said: I went to the bookshop and bought a book about this subject, to find that about 16-17 features of the Mahdi are applicable to me, with the exception of that I am not a descendent of Imam Ali; but there are some narrations that the Prophet said: the Mahdi is one of my nation who will follow after me.

The inspirer recurred to him for about 3 days.
Abu Abdallah said: People will not believe me unless there may be a miracle!
The inspirer said: Your miracle is the interpretation of the Quran.
Abu Abdallah said: The interpretation of the Quran is availble with people.
The inspirer said: None may know its interpretation but only God; so while they do not know the interpretation of the ambiguous ayat, while you will know them, then it will be your miracle.

Abu Abdallah went to the bookshop and bought the extensive book of the explanation of the Quran called (Majma Al-bayan about the explanation of the Quran) by the Tibrisi.
So he opened the book to read the beginning of the soora 2
Alif Lam Miem, and he read the ways of explanation,
and the inspirer said to him:
See this is not logical, so either the letters are the initials of the words or not; but it is like this:
The first letter is Alif, which means ...etc. and the inspirer started to explain to him the implication of these letters.

Then Abu Abdallah asked him: "Who are you?"
The inspirer said: "I am the Christ."
Abu Abdallah said: "I thought at the start, he was an angel named: the Christ; but later on when I read much about this subject, I knew that the Christ will come to the Mahdi as did Gabriel come to Prophet Mohammed.

So I am telling you this story, to know that Abu Abdallah was the apostle of the Christ, and he was the comforter: the spirit of truth, who will tell them many things later on, and will speak and tell others what he hears.

So now he tells you the correction of the Bible in addition to the explanation of the Quran, and he invites us to the exclusive devotion to God alone and to abandon the enthusiasm about creatures, and all people: whether Arab or non-Arab have to listen to his words, which are the instruction of the Christ and the commandment of God Almighty.

A Call to Christians
[By:] Apostle of the Christ

صفحة جديدة 1

What proof do you have that he took a couple of fish and fed three thousand people?

God gives some miracles to some of His messengers or apostles; but to this particular one, it may not be true.
Among his miracles: he revived some of those who died recently by supplicating God to do that, and God revived them to be his miracle.
Hour with Ghosts

Another miracle: he told them about some of the Unknown, and about what they ate and what they store up in their houses.
And he cured the congenitally blind and the albino, which were non-curable, but all that was according to praying God Who did that as a miracle on the behalf of Jesus to prove his truthfulness.

Heb:12:22:
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,

I say it is meant the "Home of safety", in the meaning not in literal word as translated by the translators of the Bible.

{Quran 6: 127 which means:
Theirs is the 'abode of peace c ' with their Lord d, and He is their Patron e because of their [righteous] deeds.}
........................................................
c i.e. the home of safety and security.
d In the spiritual paradises under the Throne.
e i.e. their Master Who takes care about them.

So Paradise or Heaven (as called by Christians)is the abode or home of peace and security, because no harm will afflict its inhabitants and they will not be afraid of devils and of Hell.

This home of safety in the Next Life is also mentioned in another aya of the Quran, which means:
{ Quran 10: 25. God does invite [you] to the abode of peace i, and does guide whom He will j to a 'standard and straight' way k [of monotheism and exclusive devotion to God alone.]}
........................................................
i It means: The World is a home of distresses, afflictions and diseases, while the Next Life is a home of rest, prosperity and safety of diseases and afflictions; therefore, God invites you the home of safety in order to repose in it and be happy with its life and prosperity.
j i.e. the one who is worthy of the guidance.
k Which is the way of the truth.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 
Last edited:

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
This extensive reply proves true my words: the derivation of the doctrine strictly from the Bible, which in fact is undependable: because in origin it is the Torah of Ezra and not the original one, and because of the passing of long time and because of the translations from Lattin into other languages and by many translators: the difference in language will cause a great confusion.
Your post was a single subject, it didn't seem fair to reply to just a small portion of it. Nice to see you know how to trim a long post down to a few points.

E.g. the heavenly Jerosalem:
Jerusalem means: the home of peace or the home of safety, so the translator thought it is Jerusalem, while it was in the meaning not in literal: the home of safety which is Paradise or Heaven or Kingdom of Heavens under the Throne where believers together with angel are dwelling.
Jerusalem doesn't become 'safe' until the 7 vials are poured out in full as the resurrection from Eze:37 takes place at that time as well as the Church as mentioned in Re:20:4.

And if we want to take the literal meaning of the word in its origin: there is for every material thing its true copy or image: that is ethereal spiritual not material; so the Paradise or Heaven is the issue of the material earth, therefore, the palaces, mansions, rivers, trees ...etc. are the image of their earthy original material cities, and one of these may be the city of Jerusalem, and the river Euphrates and other rivers and trees and mansions.
Really? How about something simpler. God always kept the garden area as being where He would first return to. Before Jerusalem existed (after the exodus) it has a shorter name.

Ge:14:18:
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine:
and he was the priest of the most high God.

I say it is meant the "Home of safety", in the meaning not in literal word as translated by the translators of the Bible.

{Quran 6: 127 which means:
Theirs is the 'abode of peace c ' with their Lord d, and He is their Patron e because of their [righteous] deeds.}
........................................................
c i.e. the home of safety and security.
d In the spiritual paradises under the Throne.
e i.e. their Master Who takes care about them.

So Paradise or Heaven (as called by Christians)is the abode or home of peace and security, because no harm will afflict its inhabitants and they will not be afraid of devils and of Hell.

This home of safety in the Next Life is also mentioned in another aya of the Quran, which means:
{ Quran 10: 25. God does invite [you] to the abode of peace i, and does guide whom He will j to a 'standard and straight' way k [of monotheism and exclusive devotion to God alone.]}
........................................................
i It means: The World is a home of distresses, afflictions and diseases, while the Next Life is a home of rest, prosperity and safety of diseases and afflictions; therefore, God invites you the home of safety in order to repose in it and be happy with its life and prosperity.
j i.e. the one who is worthy of the guidance.
k Which is the way of the truth.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

Do you agree with all of that or do you have some questions or doubts? The term is defined for us and it includes Salem from the time of Abraham, the 3 terms all mean the same, Salem had Christ as the High Priest, Jerusalem had a Temple that Christ preached from and in preparation for the new earth verses it is converted from a wasteland into a glorious city that exists when fallen angels try to make war on it but it fails as that period of time is when they are sent to the lake of fire, people, all people that were ever conceived are alive and taking a drink of living water in preparation for New Jerusalem being on the new earth and when Adam steps out after the living water is released Eve will be beside him and their children behind them. Eze:47 is how the living water makes the Dead Sea healthy for fish, in the new earth verses the birds and beasts of the field are brought back to life starting in the order they died. The 1st one is the one God killed to make clothes for Adam and Eve and the last to die are the ones Christ invites to the feast on the day He kills 2/3 of the planet as they are un-repented people. They are not alive for the 1,000 year reign as anything created that doesn't know about good and evil and is sinless in a perfect way ends up in the fiery lake.

When Satan is allowed to control the city for the 3 1/2 days the witnesses are dead in the streets the name is purposely vague and careful to call or 'Sodom' rather than Jerusalem. Christ's Temple is when it belongs to God again and that is the day of completion of both bruises from Ge:3:15.

This verse has to be completed before it is safe for anybody as it is destroyed in a few hours on the day the 7th trump sounds and right after is the resurrections.

2Th:2:4:
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.