Another Example of Yankee Gun Mentality

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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Here is an update. They have identified the suspect and have him surrounded. As I post this, it is not known whether the suspect is still alive or not(he was shot by one of the officers before the officer succumbed to his/her injuries).



Suspect in U.S. police shootings possibly dead

By MANUEL VALDES, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS




Kathy Gruber, right, and her daughter Katarina, 11, bring nine teddy bears to a growing memorial to four slain Lakewood Police officers at the Lakewood Police Dept. headquarters. (THE ASSOCIATED PRESS/Ted S. Warren)





SEATTLE - A suspect in the slaying of four police officers gunned down in a suburban coffee shop was in a Seattle house early Monday, wounded and possibly dead, police said.
Negotiators were trying to communicate with Maurice Clemmons, 37, using loudspeakers and explosions to try to prod him from hiding. At one point, gunshots rang through the neighborhood, which is some 30 miles (48 kilometers) from the original crime scene.
"We have determined that in fact he has been shot," said Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff. "He may be deceased from his gunshot wound."
Authorities had speculated early Sunday that the gunman might have been wounded at the coffee shop by one of his victims. Troyer said interviews with others detained in the investigation confirmed that theory.
Police surrounded the house late Sunday, and a negotiator used a loudspeaker early Monday to call him out by name, saying: "Mr. Clemmons, I'd like to get you out of there safely. I can tell you this, we are not going away."
Any response from inside the house was inaudible from the vantage of a photographer for The Associated Press. But shortly thereafter, police began using sirens outside the house, and there were several loud bangs before the negotiator resumed speaking, saying: "This is one of the toughest decisions you'll make in your life, but you need to man up."



By 3 a.m. Pacific time, the loudspeakers and explosions had fallen silent.
Clemmons, 37, who had a lengthy prison sentence commuted by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee nearly a decade ago, became the prime target Sunday in the search for the killer of Lakewood Police Sgt. Mark Renninger, 39; and Officers Ronald Owens, 37; Tina Griswold, 40; and Greg Richards 42.
Clemmons is believed to have been in the area around the time of the shooting, but Troyer declined to say what evidence might link him to the shooting.
On Sunday, Huckabee deflected blame with a statement on his Web site.
"Should he be found to be responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State," he wrote.
Investigators say they know of no reason that Clemmons or anyone else might have had to open fire on the four as they sat working on their laptops early Sunday morning, catching up on paperwork at the beginning of their shifts.
"We're going to be surprised if there is a motive worth mentioning," said Troyer, who sketched out a scene of controlled and deliberate carnage that spared the employees and other customers at the coffee shop in suburban Parkland, south of Seattle.
"He was very versed with the weapon," Troyer said. "This wasn't something where the windows were shot up and there bullets sprayed around the place. The bullets hit their targets."
Officer Richards' sister-in-law, Melanie Burwell, called the shooting "senseless."
"He didn't have a mean bone in his body," she said. "If there were more people in the world like Greg, things like this wouldn't happen.
Clemmons has an extensive violent criminal history from Arkansas. He also recently was arrested and charged in Washington state for assaulting a police officer, and second-degree rape of a child. Using a bail bondsman, he posted $150,000 (euro100,500) - only $15,000 of his own money - and was released from jail last week.
Documents related to the pending charges in Washington state indicate an unstable and volatile personality. In one instance, he is accused of punching a sheriff's deputy in the face, The Seattle Times reported. In another, he is accused of gathering his wife and young relatives and forcing them to undress, according to a Pierce County sheriff's report.
"The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report said.
Troyer said investigators believe two of the officers were killed while sitting in the shop, and a third was shot dead after standing up. The fourth apparently "gave up a good fight."
"We believe there was a struggle, a commotion, a fight ... that he fought the guy all the way out the door," Troyer said.
In 1989, Clemmons, then 17, was convicted in Little Rock for aggravated robbery. He was paroled in 2000 after Huckabee commuted a 95-year prison sentence. Huckabee, who was criticized during his run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008 for granting many clemencies and commutations, cited Clemmons' youth. Clemmons later violated his parole, was returned to prison and released in 2004.
There was no indication of any connection between Sunday's killings and the Halloween night shooting of a Seattle police officer.
Authorities say the man charged with that shooting also firebombed four police vehicles in October as part of a "one-man war" against law enforcement. Christopher Monfort, 41, was arrested after being wounded in a firefight with police days after the Seattle shooting.
The officers killed Sunday had received no threats, sheriff's officials said.
"We won't know if it's a copycat effect or what it was until we get the case solved," Troyer said. - Associated Press Writers Gene Johnson in Parkland, Rachel La Corte in Tacoma, George Tibbits in Seattle, Jill Zeman Bleed in Little Rock, Arkansas, and Photographers Elaine Thompson in Seattle and Ted S. Warren in Parkland contributed to this report.






 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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I was in England last year, and they have banned guns, but in the paper eveyday someone was getting stabbed.....do they now ban knives?

Silly.

In fact, they do, and a lot of good that has done. Self defense is also frowned upon, you are expected to be a willing victim of violence.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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Yeah.

One of the reasons I no longer have a job in armed security. More and more of the ATM work is being done by regular unarmed security.......sometimes carrying an immense amount of money. The banks don't give a hoot if a guard dies, it is all the bottom line.........this will go on until a guard is killed.....then they will demand (free) police protection. Your tax dollars at work protecting the profits of the banks.

Don't get me going.

Try this out for our mentality, or lack thereof; I was following an "armed" guard into an elvator in a professional building in downtown Halifax, instinctively looked at his sidearm and noticed a gaping hole in the grip where the magazine should have been, hmmm. I have since learned that many armed guards refuse to carry loaded firearms, kind of defeats the purpose. I sure wouldn't want to be his partner and rely on him to have my back. And no, I didn't catch the name of the security company.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Try this out for our mentality, or lack thereof; I was following an "armed" guard into an elvator in a professional building in downtown Halifax, instinctively looked at his sidearm and noticed a gaping hole in the grip where the magazine should have been, hmmm. I have since learned that many armed guards refuse to carry loaded firearms, kind of defeats the purpose. I sure wouldn't want to be his partner and rely on him to have my back. And no, I didn't catch the name of the security company.

Hmmmm...neither of the major companies.......both of which are still carrying revolvers in Halifax.....

I was the local training officer at my company......and the rule is the first thing you do when you arrive at work is arm yourself, and that includes loading the weapon. Anyone that habitually carried an unloaded gun would have been warned, then fired.
There is a problem....often something comes up between getting your weapon and going to the loading area........so the guy holsters an unloaded weapon....then gets distracted again, believe me you are under pressure to get your truck ready and moving out NOW. And then he leaves with an unloaded firearm. Everyone does it.....I did it....twice. I got in the habit of putting my loose rounds in a speed loader, and putting that in the holster.....so I couldn't put the revolver in the holster until after I'd loaded it.......

I never met a guard that intentionally carried an unloaded gun....ever.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Oh yes, the important defense of chicken feed.
:roll:Suppose something nasty with claws and teeth kept preventing you from making your living?
Suppose you are a rancher and you wake up at 2:30 AM to see a grizzly trying to take down your $15,000 breeding bull. You'd call the Conservation Officer? Bye bye bull. You'd throw rocks at the grizzly? bye bye bull, bye bye you.
You city slickers are hilarious sometimes.

When was the last time a lawful non-gang member Canadian used a gun to defend himself from a gang?
I don't know. Some dororknob wanted to drive by here and shoot as they do it, would have lead flying right back at him, though.
Unless you have it in hand when they make their surprise entry, the gun now belongs to the gang (probably why they broke in).
Ours are relatively close by, thanks for your concern. We don't like being woken up at early hours by hungry blackie in the kitchen or barn. Perhaps you don't mind it, though.
 
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AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Yeah.

One of the reasons I no longer have a job in armed security. More and more of the ATM work is being done by regular unarmed security.......sometimes carrying an immense amount of money. The banks don't give a hoot if a guard dies, it is all the bottom line.........this will go on until a guard is killed.....then they will demand (free) police protection. Your tax dollars at work protecting the profits of the banks.

Don't get me going.
The guys around here restocking ATMs are all armed. Funny they can get people to tote all that money around without being armed, because there's no guarantee that some robber won't shoot you anyway even if you hand over the dough and kiss his boots while you're at it.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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Mountain Veiw County
Hmmmm...neither of the major companies.......both of which are still carrying revolvers in Halifax.....

I was the local training officer at my company......and the rule is the first thing you do when you arrive at work is arm yourself, and that includes loading the weapon. Anyone that habitually carried an unloaded gun would have been warned, then fired.
There is a problem....often something comes up between getting your weapon and going to the loading area........so the guy holsters an unloaded weapon....then gets distracted again, believe me you are under pressure to get your truck ready and moving out NOW. And then he leaves with an unloaded firearm. Everyone does it.....I did it....twice. I got in the habit of putting my loose rounds in a speed loader, and putting that in the holster.....so I couldn't put the revolver in the holster until after I'd loaded it.......

I never met a guard that intentionally carried an unloaded gun....ever.

I haven't personally either, but our club prez does pistol qualifacations for some of the companies, and we have some members who have worked and still work for them, they each know folks who intentionally keep their firarms unloaded at work, and yes, they think those who do are absolutely nuts.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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I suppose we could always toss molotov cocktails at whatever nasty critter is annoying us if guns were banned. Gangs in Vancouver would catch on, I bet, though.
Paul the Policeman to a homeowner - "Boy, I know you are angry that some gang member is throwing a molotov at your house, but you should holster than vodka bottle and let us handle it"
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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:roll:Suppose something nasty with claws and teeth kept preventing you from making your living?
Suppose you are a rancher and you wake up at 2:30 AM to see a grizzly trying to take down your $15,000 breeding bull. You'd call the Conservation Officer? Bye bye bull. You'd throw rocks at the grizzly? bye bye bull, bye bye you.
You city slickers are hilarious sometimes.

I don't know. Some dororknob wanted to drive by here and shoot as they do it, would have lead flying right back at him, though. Ours are relatively close by, thanks for your concern. We don't like being woken up at early hours by hungry blackie in the kitchen or barn. Perhaps you don't mind it, though.
It's your choice to live that way, not mine. Not really interested in everyone else dying in order defend the chicken feed.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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It's your choice to live that way, not mine.
Right. So keep your beak out of our business and quit snivelling about what we do with our firearms.
Not really interested in everyone else dying in order defend the chicken feed.
Are you implying that we are murderers? WOW! Have you stuck your beak into that bag of glue MHz has been working on?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Authorities in two states were criticized amid revelations that Clemmons was allowed to walk the streets despite a teenage crime spree in Arkansas that landed him an 108-year prison sentence. He was released early after then-Gov. Mike Huckabee commuted his sentence.
Was he Huckabee's crack dealer? Did he give him a blue ribbon hummer? WTF?
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Northern Ontario,
I don't care what the antis say....so I will be politically incorrect and say it "A clip full of bullets from the cop that shot him saved the taxpayers of that state a pile of money!"
Now let the whining start about due process......:lol:
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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I don't care what the antis say....so I will be politically incorrect and say it "A clip full of bullets from the cop that shot him saved the taxpayers of that state a pile of money!"
Now let the whining start about due process......:lol:

Absolutely, too bad he didn't do it a week ago. Long live Old Sparky.
 

shadowshiv

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talloola

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Nov 14, 2006
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If people live on acreages in northern rural areas, or even southern rural areas, they
should have a right to defend their life and animals from predators, BUT, those
same people should not be able to carry those guns off of their property and
through heavily populated areas, towns and cities. There is such a difference between hunting in rural areas, protecting your farm, self and animals, or packing
a gun that has been manufactured to 'kill' people, around a city, just waiting for
someone to 'dare' you to use it.
People who live on farms and acreages should not be waving their guns around
threatening anyone who they disagree with, their guns are for a specific purpose,
and should stay that way.
If we don't have the ability to differentiate between those activities, and those
different guns and their useage, then we are just 'dumb', and our constitution
isn't like that of the u.s., which binds them very 'stupidly' to a law that was acceptable
generations ago, and does not fit now, and is ruining the lives of many, and
killing children who find guns laying around loaded, in bedroom dressers, etc.
There is a war going on below the 49th parralel, (guns and drugs,and gangs), and we better make sure we have the intelligence to stop it from coming into our country.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Too bad it didn't happen before he murdered four people.:-(

I really wish there was some way that freaking dumbass Huckabee could be held responsible.:angryfire:

He wasn't the same Huckabee that had aspirations to be Prez was he? Scary thought.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
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Vernon, B.C.
If people live on acreages in northern rural areas, or even southern rural areas, they
should have a right to defend their life and animals from predators, BUT, those
same people should not be able to carry those guns off of their property and
through heavily populated areas, towns and cities. There is such a difference between hunting in rural areas, protecting your farm, self and animals, or packing
a gun that has been manufactured to 'kill' people, around a city, just waiting for
someone to 'dare' you to use it.
People who live on farms and acreages should not be waving their guns around
threatening anyone who they disagree with, their guns are for a specific purpose,
and should stay that way.
If we don't have the ability to differentiate between those activities, and those
different guns and their useage, then we are just 'dumb', and our constitution
isn't like that of the u.s., which binds them very 'stupidly' to a law that was acceptable
generations ago, and does not fit now, and is ruining the lives of many, and
killing children who find guns laying around loaded, in bedroom dressers, etc.
There is a war going on below the 49th parralel, (guns and drugs,and gangs), and we better make sure we have the intelligence to stop it from coming into our country.

Well said, Talloola. I think when they go from the farm to the pub, they should leave the guns in the truck.