What would YOU want to hear at church?

What would YOU want to hear at church?

Cannuck

#31

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

Not that their is much charity in the catholic church.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charities

Quote:

Together, with the local, diocesan-associated Catholic Charities, it is the second largest social service provider in the United States, surpassed only by the federal government.

That must be a typo. Obviously, Chinese restaurants must be first or second.

adopted

#32

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

Your god created you with human nature. We didn't develop it on our own, did we? Or is creation a fallacy and we evolved our human nature?

He created us perfect. By our own choices, we brought a curse upon ourselves.

If you want freedom to make choices, then you've got to accept that there will be consequences for your choices.

It's a logical error for you to do something stupid and then blame God for the painful consequences.

The bigger question is, why did he create a plan for pulling us out of our own mess? He wasn't obliged to do that.

If he had just killed the evil-doers, you and me wouldn't exist. He's being merciful, can't you see that and embrace your hope there?

PoliticalNick

#33

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

Yes, you're human with a disease called human nature... hence, the need for the Gospel.

Nature is not a disease, and when I have a disease I wiil need a doctor not some Bubba in the sky.

You can be as religious as you like but don't preach your sh*t to me. Some 2000 year old story is hardly believable as absolute truth when a story can't cross a factory floor without changing.

lone wolf

#34

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

So who are the evil-doers? They who use the gifts God is supposed to have given us ... or they who use their flocks to increase their own wealth?

adopted

#35

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina

What about all those poor souls that happen to worship in
some other religion that happens to not be the one you
follow? Are they all doomed for following (in your opinion)
false idols or God's or whatever?

Your question contains an assumption -- you assume these people you're talking about are holy and righteous people who deserve to go to heaven? Aren't they all murderers, adulterers, and idolaters like the rest of us? God would be perfectly just to destroy all of us, right now. Don't you understand how true justice works?

Cliffy

#36

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

He created us perfect. By our own choices, we brought a curse upon ourselves.

If you want freedom to make choices, then you've got to accept that there will be consequences for your choices.

It's a logical error for you to do something stupid and then blame God for the painful consequences.

The bigger question is, why did he create a plan for pulling us out of our own mess? He wasn't obliged to do that.

If he had just killed the evil-doers, you and me wouldn't exist. He's being merciful, can't you see that and embrace your hope there?

Is your avatar a recent photo of you?

I have made no choices that warrant god's wrath. I refuse to accept that crap about original sin. The story is beyond childishly simplistic and naive. If god is omnipotent and all knowing then he knew what the outcome would be and he deserves our outrage and indignation. As I have said before, if I thought for a second that the god of the bible was real, I would have to hunt him down and kill him. Fortunately, I won't have to. I don't chase ghosts.

Cannuck

#37

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

You can be as religious as you like but don't preach your sh*t to me. Some 2000 year old story is hardly believable as absolute truth when a story can't cross a factory floor without changing.

Does that go for you as well? If you don't like preaching, you're in the wrong place. Ninety-five percent of what's posted on this site is preaching about something or other.

adopted

#38

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

Nature is not a disease, and when I have a disease I wiil need a doctor not some Bubba in the sky.

You can be as religious as you like but don't preach your sh*t to me. Some 2000 year old story is hardly believable as absolute truth when a story can't cross a factory floor without changing.

Wow, now I'm "preaching to you" because you posted to the thread I started? Aren't you also a preacher of your faith-system?

You do have a disease. Your filthy mouth is just one symptom that gave it away.

But if you ignore your need and curse the doctor, you won't be helped.

You're right that stories change like the wind. All the more reason that you should be fascinated that the 2000 year old story is still the fastest growing religion in the world, and is the one that grips the hearts and minds of sinners like me.

Cliffy

#39

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

You're right that stories change like the wind. All the more reason that you should be fascinated that the 2000 year old story is still the fastest growing religion in the world, and is the one that grips the hearts and minds of sinners like me.

Which one f the 3500 different Christian sects is the fastest growing religion? I heard the Muslim religion had that honour. And the story has changed a hundred times since Constantine first assembled that collection of contradictory stories.

lone wolf

#40

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

I can get you a great deal in a few up-for-sale churches in your "fastest growing religion in the world"

Cliffy

#41

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

I can get you a great deal in a few up-for-sale churches in your "fastest growing religion in the world"

A friend bought one that is only five years old in Newfy Land for just 70 grand two years ago. Very nice piece of real estate it is too.

adopted

#42

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

Which one f the 3500 different Christian sects is the fastest growing religion? I heard the Muslim religion had that honour. And the story has changed a hundred times since Constantine first assembled that collection of contradictory stories.

There is one Christ -- He is not divided. And He prophesied that weeds would grow right alongside the wheat, because his Gospel is so hated that the enemy had to sneak in to plant the tares. So, everything is happening just as he said it would.

Ron in Regina

#43

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

[QUOTE=adopted;1537603]Your question contains an assumption -- you assume these people you're talking about are holy and righteous people who deserve to go to heaven? Aren't they all murderers, adulterers, and idolaters like the rest of us? God would be perfectly just to destroy all of us, right now. Don't you understand how true justice works?[/QUOTE]

Do you? What is "true justice" in your opinion?

Me? I'm not religious, but somewhat spiritual. I don't need a
church to feel close to.....whatever....and feel closest out in
(& surrounded by) nature, be it a forest or a wheat field. Out
away from crowds with my dogs. My beliefs are not structured
and codified in someone else's book. I do not intentionally bring
harm unto others when possible. I don't push my belief system
upon others, and I'm not recruiting. Am I going to your Christian
Hell for these above crimes in your version of "true justice?"

lone wolf

#44

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

How many sects of Christianity are there?

adopted

#45

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

How many sects of Christianity are there?

There's one Christian religion, well-documented in the most-preserved, best-selling, most-read, and most-hated book in all history.

lone wolf

#46

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

If one has Faith, one has no need for Church

darkbeaver

+2 / -1

#47

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

It's merely reasonable. But you'd need to understand the basics of the Holy God to realize that. People in our culture have no problem devoting their praise and worship to depraved cultural icons. What about the Creator?

Yes, you're human with a disease called human nature... hence, the need for the Gospel.

Not exactly. There is the matter, mater mother call it clay, in which the soul is obliged to take residence for its trial in the lower world in the body of the beast. The animal man and the spiritual man war until christ finally tames the beast and returns to the heavenly fire. The beast is not a disease it is a teacher and a companion and a temple. Its only purpose is temper souls for the next level of awareness.

Dexter Sinister

#48

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

Any problems with what Jesus taught?

Plenty. You don't want to get me started.

Cliffy

#49

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

There's one Christian religion, well-documented in the most-preserved, best-selling, most-read, and most-hated book in all history.

Which one is that? The Catholics, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Baptists.... etc., etc.?

The only thing that is well documented about the bible is how it has changed from its origins to its present day format with all it additions, omissions and mistranslations. It has not been well preserved at all.

adopted

#50

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina

Do you? What is "true justice" in your opinion?

Me? I'm not religious, but somewhat spiritual. I don't need a
church to feel close to.....whatever....and feel closest out in
(& surrounded by) nature, be it a forest or a wheat field. Out
away from crowds with my dogs. My beliefs are not structured
and codified in someone else's book. I do not intentionally bring
harm unto others when possible. I don't push my belief system
upon others, and I'm not recruiting. Am I going to your Christian
Hell for these above crimes in your version of "true justice?"

See, there's a difference between you and me. Your goal is to justify yourself. You should know that you don't need to justify yourself to me. Next, and more importantly, I recommend you ask yourself whether that defense (above) will stand against the one true and righteous judge on the day that is coming as surely as tomorrow.

I will not put confidence in a self-defense about being a peaceful person who loves nature.

I will instead, and with great joy, grab hold of the righteousness of Another, who is handing it to me for free.

To answer your question, I believe that the justice of the Holy God requires that one who has told a lie must be punished; one who has coveted what did not belong to him must be punished. For these crimes, and more, I cannot justify myself, but instead look to His mercy -- and He has an elaborate plan there!

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

If one has Faith, one has no need for Church

Everybody's got faith in something... and everybody's having fellowship with somebody.

Last edited by adopted; Jan 23rd, 2012 at 10:12 PM..Reason: clarity

darkbeaver

#51

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

There's one Christian religion, well-documented in the most-preserved, best-selling, most-read, and most-hated book in all history.

Nope wrong again, all religion essentially deals with the same cosmic powers, the christ type figures in most of the distinct religions of this day and days past. You see they all deal with incarnation reincarnation the word the lord the virgin birth the reurrection you name it every bit of it came thousands of years before jesus. While you are reading the bible next time be sure to thank its Egyptian authors.

karrie

#52

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

If you walked into a Christian church off the street, what question would you like to hear answered?

"Why is that people ask questions only to ignore the answers you give, and give you the answer they've pre-decided?"

it's an intellectual trap. "I'd like your opinion." "Well, my opinion is..." "Nope, wait, I'll tell you what the right opinion is!"

Some of the most interesting growth comes from considering questions without easy answers.

lone wolf

#53

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

"Why is that people ask questions only to ignore the answers you give, and give you the answer they've pre-decided?"

it's an intellectual trap. "I'd like your opinion." "Well, my opinion is..." "Nope, wait, I'll tell you what the right opinion is!"

Some of the most interesting growth comes from considering questions without easy answers.

How does anyone grow in their head-in-a-vice syndrome?

darkbeaver

#54

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Not exactly. There is the matter, mater mother call it clay, in which the soul is obliged to take residence for its trial in the lower world in the body of the beast. The animal man and the spiritual man war until christ finally tames the beast and returns to the heavenly fire. The beast is not a disease it is a teacher and a companion and a temple. Its only purpose is temper souls for the next level of awareness.

I got a thumbs down. It's true, there are none so blind,,,,sighhhh, like I was saying a bit ago, the dark ages are very much still upon us.

Dexter Sinister

#55

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

I will instead, and with great joy, grab hold of the righteousness of Another, who is handing it to me for free.

Haven't you learned yet that you should be suspicious of claims that sound too good to be true? Not quite free either, is it. You have to agree to be subservient to an absolute authority that can convict you of thought crime even while you sleep, that condemns you for being merely human, that by any logic I understand knowingly created you sick and demands you be well, and if you refuse this kind offer of an unyielding certainty and total subservience, it's the fires of Hell for you. That's not a gift, that's a cup of poison. You can choose such slavery if it suits you, but for me, no thanks, I'll take my chances on my own.

lone wolf

#56

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

I got a thumbs down. It's true, there are none so blind,,,,sighhhh, like I was saying a bit ago, the dark ages are very much still upon us.

Worry not melad.... I got one for a pun....

adopted

#57

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Nope wrong again, all religion essentially deals with the same cosmic powers, the christ type figures in most of the distinct religions of this day and days past. You see they all deal with incarnation reincarnation the word the lord the virgin birth the reurrection you name it every bit of it came thousands of years before jesus. While you are reading the bible next time be sure to thank its Egyptian authors.

Every good idea had copy-cats.

Christianity has some distinguishing marks:

There are many religions and movements (including secular philosophies) that offer transformation of a person via self-improvement of the intrinsic heart or nature of that person. Only the Christian religion offers a transformation of a person via death and loss of that human nature, which is instead supplanted by spirit and life from One outside of himself, or by a new birth.
Humanists commit themselves to the “good” they can do for people; Muslims, Jews, and Christian cults commit themselves to the “good” that they can do for God; but true Christians commit themselves to the good that the good God can do for them.
Of all leaders and prophets, it is only the Christ who claimed to be the eternal Son of God, the “I AM,” with authority to forgive sins, to pronounce judgment, and to give life and take it away.
Of all leaders and prophets, it is only the Christ who died for His disciples, and rose from the grave again. He doesn’t merely “speak from the grave,” or from books, but He “always lives to make intercession for (those who draw near to God)” (see Hebrews 7).

Ron in Regina

#58

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by adopted

See, there's a difference between you and me. Your goal is to justify yourself. You need to know that you don't need to justify yourself to me. Next, and more importantly, you need to ask yourself whether that defense (above) will stand against the one true and righteous judge on the day that is coming as surely as tomorrow.

I will not put confidence in a self-defense about being a peaceful person who loves nature.

I will instead, and with great joy, grab hold of the righteousness of Another, who is handing it to me for free.

To answer your question, I believe that the justice of the Holy God requires that one who has told a lie must be punished; one who has coveted what did not belong to him must be punished. For these crimes, and more, I cannot justify myself, but instead look to His mercy -- and He has an elaborate plan there!

Everybody's got faith in something... and everybody's having fellowship with somebody.

That's funny. Okily-Dokily then neighbourino...I was curious about your....
whatever it is you're selling or recruiting for....& that's about it.

I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin, and will deal with whatever (if anything)
I need to deal with when the time comes. If that be a walk in a field with God
some day as we talk while listening to the birds sing and the gophers whistle,
then fine. If it's some wrathfull pissed-off dude with a chip on his shoulder,
there's enough of them here without dreading that throughout this lifetime, so
I'll pass on that. I don't need a defence. Thanks anyway though.

Welcome to the Forum. You can look forward to flagilation in your version
of the afterlife if that's what turns your crank. To each their own. I'll pass.

adopted

#59

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

"Why is that people ask questions only to ignore the answers you give, and give you the answer they've pre-decided?"

it's an intellectual trap. "I'd like your opinion." "Well, my opinion is..." "Nope, wait, I'll tell you what the right opinion is!"

Some of the most interesting growth comes from considering questions without easy answers.

I didn't ask, "what would you want to hear me say in this forum"... I said," what would you want to hear at church?" The reason I asked, is so that I could go straight to my pastor and ask him to answer these questions in a sermon at church!

darkbeaver

#60

Re: What would YOU want to hear at church?

Jan 23rd, 2012

Anyway at a church I would like to hear the wind in the trees, and I bloody well could because in fact a church is not a goddman building, it is the lords house and the lord lives in you, in the temple, christ does not and cannot live in a bloody brick building.

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