Zimbabwe...no end to the power struggle!

[dancing-loon]

Mugabe finds support, hugs at African Union summit

Mugabe attended the summit in Sharm El-Sheik, Egypt, despite major criticism surrounding a recent presidential election and runoff.
Sonia Verma, a reporter covering the meetings, spoke to CTV Newsnet from Sharm El-Sheik Monday.

"There's a really curious dichotomy between the response from African leaders and the response from Western leaders over Mugabe's legitimacy," she said.
Verma said Mugabe was treated as a legitimate leader at the summit.

"A lot of the African leaders come from countries that don't have the best record when it comes to democracy."
"(Mugabe) could even be seen hugging some of the other delegates," she said.

Meanwhile, Canada has implemented travel, work and study sanctions against Zimbabwe -- one of a number of nations to take action.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc..._summit_080630
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Canada is always one of the first when it comes to responding negatively to a situation. I remember we were the very first country to withdraw aid to the Palestinians a while back.
I hope these sanctions don't include scholarship students, like the Palestinian ones who couldn't travel to the States, because Israel wouldn't allow them to travel.
As we can see, the other African Nations don't condemn Mugabe. I think against the Whites the Blacks will always stick together. Or am I falling victim to an illusion?:smile:

 

[darkbeaver]

Where is Zimbabwe?

 

[dancing-loon]

Where is Zimbabwe?

over here, Beaver...>>>>.....-----

V
V
v
v

 

[iARTthere4iam]

I have been watching in horror as this sad farce has unfolded over the last number of years. I don't think there is any appetite for intervention from western states or the UN. If Zimbabweans won't fight back, if the African Union or individual African states don't get involved then it natually will continue as it has. Mugabe will be the ruler and because of his government's inneptitude will likely continue to cause starvation and misery. Should someone do something, could someone do someting? Mabey. but if they don't it remains up to Mugabe to do what he will. It is up to us whether we want to watch the horror or change the channel. I wish Zimbabweans good luck.

 

[data]

Keep attention and transparency

I have been watching in horror as this sad farce has unfolded over the last number of years. I don't think there is any appetite for intervention from western states or the UN... It is up to us whether we want to watch the horror or change the channel. I wish Zimbabweans good luck.

If you wish Zimbabweans to get their chance for selfdetermination, then please don't change the channel.
If war is not the way and it should not be, then please go on watching and motivate others to do so.

A little dose of transparency and international attention could already limit the power, what comes from the barrel of rifles (and not uniformed Green Bombers), who act instructed, like German "population" during the crystall night of 1938. President Tswangirai came this way back again to eye level with the ZANU leader. Don't waste MDC sacrifices. Political violence seems to grow even after AU summit and international criticism.

Over 10 MDC supporters have been murdered since Zanu PF held its sham election on 27 June 2008, most of them from Manicaland province. At least 100 MDC supporters and officials have been killed since the first round of elections held on March 29.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200807030991.html

Motivate your government, to support the announcements of G.W. Bush to solve this problem by UN means. Perhaps he will still do something constructive before retirement. I will petition my government in this direction, because Germany knows already a situation of being not able to get rid of a dictatorship by own means. Today it does not need war, but transparency and democratic world attention. Without that perhaps also East Germany would not have been able to avoid civil war in 1989 (while sitting on nuclear missiles each, what Zimbabweans in fact do not).

relative protection in sight of US embassy
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/07/03/zimbabwe.main/?iref=hpmostpop

SA ambassador to Harare is expected to tell the 300 desperate Zimbabweans to leave on Thursday, or he will have to deal with a crisis directly linked to the controversial presidential elections.

'We believe we are much safer here than anywhere else in this country' The MDC supporters arrived at the embassy on Wednesday saying that they had fled violence orchestrated by Zanu-PF.

They charged that they had been harassed by police when the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) headquarters was raided on Monday and had sought refuge in the US embassy where they were turned away.

http://www.shortlink.org/14258

How does it look at the fence of the Canadian embassy in Harare?

 

[dancing-loon]

Hi, Data,
thanks for the more in-debt news you brought us. What a life of fear these poor people have to live! Homeless and no place to find a shelter. Interesting how the Zanu Social/Welfare Dept offered them refuge!

A source at the embassy said the Zimbabwean government's Social Welfare Department had offered to accommodate the Zimbabweans.
"(But) the refugees refused, arguing that they cannot turn to the same people they are running away from," said the source.

My daughter told me she had read that many Zimbabweans have left to work and live in the neighboring countries, leaving their kids behind in the care of the elders.

Do we have an embassy in Harare?
Oh, yes we do... a mission that takes care of Canadian interests in Zimbabwe, Angola and Botswana.

Official Warning: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against all travel to Zimbabwe

It wouldn't surprise me, if Mugabe in his next move will tell the Western diplomats to leave. He is mad enough at them.

 

[data]

Official Warning: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against all travel to Zimbabwe

Of course each German pensioner can travel through Zim, as far he can rustle up enough petrol. It is not about German tourists, but about the people of Zimbabwe! They suffer and have no longer food to eat!! And also no jobs and perspectives for future. Or do you think it had other causes, that during last years millions of Zimbabweans fled to South Africa? That is no invention of the press, these people you can meet in real in the South African Squatter Camps, if you would give you the trouble to look there in.
Even bischop Tutu, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate and Ex-Anglican Archbishop of Cape Town demanded open to send troops to Zimbabwe and end the Mugabe kleptocracy. It's absurd, that is has to demanded from a church man, while the lame government of South Africa sticks the head in the sand and continues it's failed appeasement policy. That is disgusting to live in such a land!
Gnubsch

http://www.suedafrika-forum.net/showthread.php?t=543&page=2

That means not war, but peace keeping troops for a transitional government (TG) to prepare acceptable and democratic elections (would be the first in that country).

AU, UN and G8 must take position, what is dominant:
non-interference in internal affairs of a sovereign state or its (new!) obligation to care.

 

[dancing-loon]

http://www.suedafrika-forum.net/showthread.php?t=543&page=2

That means not war, but peace keeping troops for a transitional government (TG) to prepare acceptable and democratic elections (would be the first in that country).

AU, UN and G8 must take position, what is dominant:
non-interference in internal affairs of a sovereign state or its (new!) obligation to care.

Hi, data;
thanks for enclosing the German Zimbabwe-thread. I was just going to enter this one
http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/jul4b_2008.html#Z10 which talks about US sanctions, then I saw you guys are already discussing that.

By the way... someone was asking, if South Africa was providing electricity to Zimbabwe? In case they were one could perhaps ask them to turn it off. 8O Wouldn't that bring Mugabe to his knees, if he had to eat by candle light???

At least Canada has a travel ban in place, and the US is doing the same... 13 or 14 people in all from Mugabe's high ranks are targeted, him included, of course.
Personally, I don't think that will bother him much.

The other thing is to replace Mbeki, the mild-mild one, with some leader from another African country to get negotiations moving forward.

For the sake of the common people I hope this nightmare will soon be over.

 

[Zzarchov]

If you put sanctions against mugabe, he'll do what everyone else does:

Blame you for his people going without while he hoards the resources available to live in Luxury.

 

[Colpy]

If you put sanctions against mugabe, he'll do what everyone else does:

Blame you for his people going without while he hoards the resources available to live in Luxury.

Exactly!

Mugabe's home, believe me, comes complete with its own power generators, cutting off electricity does nothing.

The choice with guys like this is stark: stay out and allow them free hand to murder their own while we wring our hands and mouth platitudes..........or invade and shoot the SOB, taking the chance of making things temporarily (more or less) worse, Witness Iraq.

BTW, a glimpse of Mugabe's home.....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article555089.ece

 

[dancing-loon]

Film of Zimbabwe 'vote-rigging'

New evidence of vote-rigging in last month's presidential election in Zimbabwe has emerged in the form of a secret film made by a prison guard. The guard, Shepherd Yuda, filmed the vote-rigging at his jail in a production for Guardian Films.
Prison officers, including Mr Yuda, who has now fled Zimbabwe, were forced to vote for President Robert Mugabe by superior officers.
The officers organized a postal ballot and stood over them as they cast votes.
Mr Yuda decided to speak out after the murder of his uncle, an opposition activist, two months ago.
He knew he and his family would have to leave Zimbabwe as a result.

South African President Thabo Mbeki has betrayed us. He didn't want to come down hard on Mugabe. (Anonymous prison guard)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7491077.stm
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I guess nobody doubted that the election was rigged, but now there is evidence.

 

[dancing-loon]

Thanks Colpy, for including a link to Mugabe's residence. It sure is lovely... no wonder he doesn't want to leave, neither his wife, I'm sure.

But, on the other hand, there are lots of people who live in equally grandiose houses. It is just so unfair for Mugabe in the midst of stark poverty.

Our world is full of inequalities... even I live in luxury compared to the ordinary folks in poor countries. How are we ever going to eradicate poverty?

 

[dancing-loon]

G8 heads urge African leaders to oust Mugabe


TOYAKO, Japan — Group of Eight leaders yesterday pushed the heads of African nations to take strong steps toward forcing Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe out of power, exposing divisions between major developed countries and Africans, who raised fears that tougher action might tip the volatile country into civil war.

In two sessions at a summit in Japan, G8 leaders — including Canada's Prime Minister, Stephen Harper— grilled representatives of seven African nations on what they view as failed diplomatic efforts to bring stability to Zimbabwe, warning that the West opposes Africa's tolerance of Mr. Mugabe's regime and that the continent's economy and development could suffer as a result of that tolerance.

"I think that the points were really carried by the G8 leaders to the Africans. And the points were as follows: the Mugabe regime is an illegitimate regime and it should not be tolerated, that public opinion in G8 countries questions why the world would tolerate such a regime, and questions why Africa tolerates such a regime," the official told reporters.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home
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Those are strong words from the Western leaders! I think it is not unlikely that a civil war could break out. And then what? Then the real slaughter begins!

Someone suggested one should freeze all his assets, and only give it back, if he leaves quietly. That could work, if it was possible.
I suggest one should offer him a job at the United Nations!!! He might go for that.

 

[amagqira]

The only country with the power to actually oust Mugabe is South Africa, but Mbeki treats Mugabe with kidgloves - previous comrade-in-arms or maybe they just share a common belief in their godgiven right to rule. All Mbeki needs to do is put economic pressure on Mugabe (cut off his electricity for starters - as it stands I wouldn't be surprised if South Africa hasn't been paid in months for the electricity it supplies, or cut off fuel to Zimbabwe) The ordinary people are already suffering badly and although the lack of fuel and electricity will not impact Mugabe, it will have an impact upon his supporters and it is they who have the power to "persuade" him to retire.

Invade Zimbabwe - I don't think so - it will cause an uproar in Africa.

What a pity such a beatiful country has been brought to its knees by a little power and money hungry despot. The ordinary people are hardworking and intelligent and would do so much better without Mugabe. But people have forgotten that years ago Mugabe sent in his Korean trained 5th Brigade into Matabeleland and killed off 20,000 Matabeles - his official opposition at the time - the man has always been a thug but the west has only now realized it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_Fifth_Brigade
At that time, Mugabe could do no wrong in the eyes of the West. It is all about what you choose to believe.

 

[dancing-loon]

Thank you, amagqira, for that wiki link about the fifth brigade.... I didn't know about that. What a brutal force that was, and all ordered by Mugabe himself!! No wonder the people are still in shock and fear, and don't dare to challenge him.

I read that from 50 African Union heads of state some 22 came undemocratically to power.... so, they are not going to stick their necks out and tell Mugabe to cede power.

And Senegal's foreign minister rejects Western interference outright, saying the Africans should be left alone to decide their own destinies. That sounds fair to me!

It is a behexed situation. I wish I could look down the tunnel of bygone centuries, then I could perhaps recognize the karmic law and order at work.

On the other hand it is a great warning for all of us to be ever so vigilant, and watch out that we don't end up with a power-hungry maniac. In this day and age where all kinds of information is available to even ordinary people we must keep our eyes and ears wide open!

 

[data]

On the other hand it is a great warning for all of us to be ever so vigilant, and watch out that we don't end up with a power-hungry maniac. In this day and age where all kinds of information is available to even ordinary people we must keep our eyes and ears wide open!

Remember your childhood, you were born into the heaven country of Adolf Hitler.

Nice to see, that you keep interest. You may check out, where I found a Zimbabwe thread in the bigger Spiegel-Forum from Germany. I didn't like that forum, because user are not allowed to set own themes. But I caused first trouble among some German speaking Rhodies by always bringing German history in. Each post gets reviewed first by admins, but up to except my last post I came through. I jumped in here: http://forum.spiegel.de/showthread.php?p=2446544#post2446544 (one week ago).

For Englisch speaker is of course the Newzim forum hot, where I don't need the -x of data-x. http://newzim.proboards86.com/index.cgi?board=general
I start perhaps to make peace with Emmerson Mnangagwa, not the the JOC-head, but Baby Emmo, his former admirer and young, intelligent and proud CIO (on which side ever). Should he have still contact to send them peace messages? Not necessary. That forum is required reading for CIO and ZANU top brass, since they may have influence, but fail to control it. Training in democracy with fun. ;-)

Zimbabweans discuss the draft resolution about UN sanctions and 14 names.
http://newzim.proboards86.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=146620

 

[dancing-loon]

Zimbabwe sanctions vetoed at UN

A draft resolution to impose sanctions on Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe and a number of his key allies has been vetoed at the UN Security Council.
China and Russia both rejected the proposed measures, including a freeze on their financial assets and travel.

The UK foreign secretary called China and Russia's stance "incomprehensible".
David Miliband said Russia used its veto despite a promise by President Dmitry Medvedev to support the resolution, when it was discussed at this week's summit of the G-8 group of industrialised nations.
The US ambassador to the UN, Zalmay Khalilzad, said Russia's veto raised "questions about its reliability as a G8 partner".
A BBC correspondent at the UN says the failure of the resolution is a major blow for the United States and Britain.
"The people of Zimbabwe need to be given hope that there is an end in sight to their suffering," said Sir John Sawers. "The Security Council today has failed to offer them that hope."
However, Russia's ambassador Vitaly Churkin said sanctions would have taken the UN beyond its mandate.
Zimbabwe's ambassador told the BBC the vote shooed that "reason has prevailed".
"People have been able to see the machinations of Washington, London and France," said Boniface Chidyausiku.
South Africa voted against the sanctions resolution. It has promoted a power-sharing arrangement between President Mugabe and the opposition.
.........
The resolution would have imposed an arms embargo on Zimbabwe and financial and travel restrictions on President Mugabe and 13 of his top officials.

FOR
Belgium
Burkina Faso
Costa Rica
Croatia
France
Italy
Panama
UK
United States
AGAINST
China
Libya
Russia
South Africa
Vietnam
ABSTAINED
Indonesia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7502965.stm
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Of interest is that the embargo was on weapons, and financial and travel restrictions for Mugabe and associates. That shouldn't have hurt the population at all.

 

[gopher]

Impeach Mugabe!!!

 

[gopher]

The UN may have voted against sanctions but this does not mean the USA and others cannot impose them on their own.

IMPEACH MUGABE!!!

 

[dancing-loon]

Hi, Gopher;
who could impeach Mugabe? Only his own people, and they wouldn't dare for the fear of their life.

Yes, I guess any country could impose their own restrictions on Z. Canada apparently already did.
The following sanctions will immediately take effect:

• Restricting travel, work and study of senior members of Zimbabwe's government within Canada.
• Banning Zimbabwe-registered aircraft from landing in or flying over Canada.
• Summoning the ambassador of Zimbabwe to Canada to convey Canada's position.

The government is also encouraging the few Canadian companies that do business with Zimbabwe to voluntarily stop.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/30/canada-zimb.html
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What wonders me is WHY Russia, China and others are vetoing the proposed UN sanctions?
China I understand... they are doing business in arms with Z.