Your thoughts on official unilingualism?

Official Constitutional and federal unilingualism in each province and territory?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 56.3%
  • No.

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • Other answers.

    Votes: 1 6.3%

  • Total voters
    16

Queb

Electoral Member
Jun 23, 2013
293
0
16
It is fait accomplis!
"Les deux solitudes" Is the reality. It,s not a question to like it or not.

This reality hit me in the face each time I am going to Montreal. English people are acting exactly the same way as they

De quel fait accompli parles-tu ?

I noticed that a lot of people of Québec origine call themselves French Canadians (Canadiens Français)...
I call myself Canadien Francophone!
I'm Canadian first and my first language is not a religion and I don't celebrate la St. Jean Batiste....
I dont see often people talking about themselves as Canadian of french canadian. We say Quebecers. In fact our identity is Quebec and Quebec culture. Canada is seen more like a political organisation that our Nation is a member.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Some time ago I spent three weeks in Stockholm on a holiday. To my surprise I found that all Swedes speak perfect English. It is taught in school and the kids love it. Most Scandinavians are bilingual and it is a pleasure to see. It would be easy to teach our two national languages in school and follow the example of the Scandinavians.

Swedish and English are both Germanic. French is Latinate.
 

Queb

Electoral Member
Jun 23, 2013
293
0
16
Swedish and English are both Germanic. French is Latinate.
I think there is more link between french and english than swedish and english.

Dont forget that about 80% of the word in english come from french.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
What I see here is more supporter for unilingualism all over Quebec and canada.... English all over including Quebec.
I seen nobody telling that french unilingualism in all sphere of the society in Quebec is legitimate and a good way for the future.

OK, I'll find a quote for you.

Sure, and the rest of Canada can do the same, and not pay for french bilingualism in our schools and government, and could go back to hiring mono lingual people...
and all our road signs would also be in anglais too.

This language BS destroyed the education in my small french community in Ontario where My town had to rape our BILINGUAL highschool to pay for the new separate french high school which was mainly attended by people from OUT OF TOWN who didn't have to pay for the school.
Then the first graduates all had to drop out of post secondary, because their education from the new french high school was so substandard.

and I am metis/french/english myself, so I am not being "racist" about this

This quote seems to support official unilingualism in French in Quebec and English in the ROC. And it comes from an ROC francophone.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
"Les deux solitudes" Is the reality. It,s not a question to like it or not.

This reality hit me in the face each time I am going to Montreal. English people are acting exactly the same way as they

De quel fait accompli parles-tu ?

French is the legally and practically dominant language of Quebec. Yes, you have Anglophones in Montreal and a few other historic pockets. If you want to be 100% Francophone, you will have to perform a truly fascist ethnic cleansing on the "others" and I guarantee to you that it would be a horrible mistake to do so.
The rest of the Western World is polyethnic, polycultural to a certain extent and your land will be no exception, no matter what the haters think should be done. You can never achieve your solitude. You cannot haul up the anchor and row away from 350,000,000 Anglo-speakers. You are surrounded on all sides and you have nowhere to go. The Quebecois birth rate has plummeted and there are very few source regions in the world for suitable Francophone immigrants.

Your only option is to make peace with the sea of Anglos that surround you. You cannot do that as long as you want to erect a "great, big wall" (and have Ottawa pay for it).
 
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Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
So, you think that English Quebecers and French residents of other provinces are people not worthy of helping? Does that mean they could pay no taxes, since you want to deny them service?

This one opposes official unilingualism out if concern for official minorities.

I wasn't aware that the Chinese were part of the founding linguistic groups of our political history.

But not unofficial minorities.

Drop english in Québec mean:

No more school in english
No more hospital in english
No more college in english
No more laws translation in english
No more Police in english
No more justice in english
No more unversity in english
No more government services in english
No more city services in english
No more ambulance in english
no more english except for your personal live if you want.[/QUOTE

If that's what Quebec wants, fine with me.
The thing is, It would seriously impede any progress at all in Quebec. The business world demands the English language. And I believe it would be out of line with the rest of the Canadian Constitution, not that that has ever bothered Quebec! Quebec would be one of the few places in the world that does not offer English as an alternative.
With all the serious problems faced in the world today, haggling about official language is a waste of time.
After all the years that Quebec has been a Canadian Province it has had plenty of time to learn English and in fact most Quebeckers can speak English. The young people in particular want to speak English as they are more mobile and travel outside the Province and around the world frequently. .
I think Quebec is shooting itself in the foot with this issue.

This quote seems to be willing to accept or tolerate it if that's what Québec wants.

There, I voted, and I disagree.

F we have English as the official language federally, that would mean all federal services would only be available in English. How are the québécois going to like that?

OK, here's one who would want to impose English nationwide, but that's just Gerryh speaking.
 

Queb

Electoral Member
Jun 23, 2013
293
0
16
This one opposes official unilingualism out if concern for official minorities.



But not unofficial minorities.

This quote seems to be willing to accept or tolerate it if that's what Québec wants.



OK, here's one who would want to impose English nationwide, but that's just Gerryh speaking.
You are telling that it is supporting the idea when he is talking about paying no tax if the english special rights are cancelled ? Come on.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
This one opposes official unilingualism out if concern for official minorities.



But not unofficial minorities.

Quebec Anglos (including their diaspora) and Francophones outside of Quwbec ... Acadians, Franco-Ontarians, the French from the Interlake region of Manitoba, and others add up to something near the population of Alberta and they should goddam well have rights to their cultures!
 
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Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
I said yes because it's almost that way now. If this came into law Quebec would go full retard French and a bunch more companies would move their head offices to Toronto.

Another yes though ironically because he thinks it would hurt Québec.

I think there is more link between french and english than swedish and english.

Dont forget that about 80% of the word in english come from french.

The most basic and common words of the language and the grammatical structure are still mostly Germanic.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Another yes though ironically because he thinks it would hurt Québec.



The most basic and common words of the language and the grammatical structure are still mostly Germanic.

My ancestors came from the British Isles and their native languages were neither Germanic nor Latinate. In fact, their languages are millenia older (maybe many millenia) than English, French, German, Italian ...
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
French is the legally and practically dominant language of Quebec. Yes, you have Anglophones in Montreal and a few other historic pockets. If you want to be 100% Francophone, you will have to perform a truly fascist ethnic cleansing on the "others" and I guarantee to you that it would be a horrible mistake to do so.
The rest of the Western World is polyethnic, polycultural to a certain extent and your land will be no exception, no matter what the haters think should be done. You can never achieve your solitude. You cannot haul up the anchor and row away from 350,000,000 Anglo-speakers. You are surrounded on all sides and you have nowhere to go. The Quebecois birth rate has plummeted and there are very few source regions in the world for suitable Francophone immigrants.

Your only option is to make peace with the sea of Anglos that surround you. You cannot do that as long as you want to erect a "great, big wall" (and have Ottawa pay for it).

To be honest, I'd prefer official unilingualism at the municipal level, not provincial. Even in Quebec some municipalities are majority Anglo.

In the French forum, we'd discussed sign-language rights for the Deaf and local-indigenous-language rights, but there was little interest in that. I think it's a mostly sovereignist forum.

I'd proposed Esperanto as a five-to-ten-times easier language to learn than English that French Quebecers and English Canadians who lack the aptitude to learn a more difficult language could learn as a common second language. I'd proposed allowing public schools to teach and students to be tested in a second language if their choice to reduce the threat of English in Quebec.

No interest in that either. In fact, they want to impose French on everyone and English too. So by imposing English, they create their own threat to the French language which they then try to remedy by imposing French on everyone to compensate.

Instead they just want to impose French Quebec-wide, not even sympathetic to indigenous Quebecers who don't know French and not particularly interested in Deaf rights either.

But then I thought, if your first language is neither English nor French, then official bilingualism just makes things harder for you.

Si while I'd prefer official unilingualism at the local level, provincially is the next best thing if that is what sivereignist want.
I'd even proposed redrawing boundaries. It would get Labrador and South East Ontario and Ontario gets Quebec's English border towns.

Still no interest. He wants to impose French on majority English Québec towns and abandon majority French communities outside Quebec to English. Makes no sense to me.

But even with that, if Québec wants to impose French on olits Deaf, indigenous, Anglos, allophones, etc., if declaring each province unilingual breaks the impasse, then let's do it. Unofficial communities would still be better off having one language imposed on them than two.

Provincial unilingualism is a terrible idea, but better than official bilingualism and might stand a chance politically, so why not?

My ancestors came from the British Isles and their native languages were neither Germanic nor Latinate. In fact, their languages are millenia older (maybe many millenia) than English, French, German, Italian ...

Curious. What languages?
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
LP
To be honest, I'd prefer official unilingualism at the municipal level, not provincial. Even in Quebec some municipalities are majority Anglo.

In the French forum, we'd discussed sign-language rights for the Deaf and local-indigenous-language rights, but there was little interest in that. I think it's a mostly sovereignist forum.

I'd proposed Esperanto as a five-to-ten-times easier language to learn than English that French Quebecers and English Canadians who lack the aptitude to learn a more difficult language could learn as a common second language. I'd proposed allowing public schools to teach and students to be tested in a second language if their choice to reduce the threat of English in Quebec.

No interest in that either. In fact, they want to impose French on everyone and English too. So by imposing English, they create their own threat to the French language which they then try to remedy by imposing French on everyone to compensate.

Instead they just want to impose French Quebec-wide, not even sympathetic to indigenous Quebecers who don't know French and not particularly interested in Deaf rights either.

But then I thought, if your first language is neither English nor French, then official bilingualism just makes things harder for you.

Si while I'd prefer official unilingualism at the local level, provincially is the next best thing if that is what sivereignist want.
I'd even proposed redrawing boundaries. It would get Labrador and South East Ontario and Ontario gets Quebec's English border towns.

Still no interest. He wants to impose French on majority English Québec towns and abandon majority French communities outside Quebec to English. Makes no sense to me.

But even with that, if Québec wants to impose French on olits Deaf, indigenous, Anglos, allophones, etc., if declaring each province unilingual breaks the impasse, then let's do it. Unofficial communities would still be better off having one language imposed on them than two.

Provincial unilingualism is a terrible idea, but better than official bilingualism and might stand a chance politically, so why not?



Curious. What languages?
"Welsh" (Cymru), Scots Gaelic and Cornish

... not a drop of Angular Saxon.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
"Welsh" (Cymru) Scots Gaelic and Cornish

Compared to them, French-speakers have little to complain about. Though French is my mother-tongue, my heart is more with Deaf, indigenous, and other unofficial-language rights.
I personally think both English and French-Canadians can be quite egotistical on the language front. Official unilingualism just reduces the language burden on unofficial language communities by half.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
Compared to them, French-speakers have little to complain about. Though French is my mother-tongue, my heart is more with Deaf, indigenous, and other unofficial-language rights.
I personally think both English and French-Canadians can be quite egotistical on the language front. Official unilingualism just reduces the language burden on unofficial language communities by half.

It's so unnecessary. Big effing deal if you have to stare at "flocons de mais" on the box in Airdrie every morning. Grow the fukc up and realize that there are seven billion others of us that are not necessarily like you.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
It's so unnecessary. Big effing deal if you have to stare at "flocons de mais" on the box in Airdrie every morning. Grow the fukc up and realize that there are seven billion others of us that are not necessarily like you.

On that front, there is also an economic impact. Many US, UK, and other products can't be imported into Canada for lack of French.

Many French, Swiss, Belgian, African and others can't be imported into Québec for lack of English. It reduces consumer choice, competition, and so quality and price of available products on the market.
Some estimate it probably pushes consumer costs up a few percentage points.

Also, if your mother tongue Innu and you learn French as a second language and then want to join the Federal goverents, now you have to learn English as a third language. Same with the Ojibwa or Chinese who learns English and now has to learn French.

I remember when I got my passport renewed, the office was wall to wall white faces except for one. Over a dozen staff that I'd counted. Presumably because those who speak English or French as a mother tongue gave the advantage. They need to learn only one more language beside their own, not two.

Stats also show English-French bilinguals earn more. Presumably their official status exacerbates that wealth discrepancy.

So there is an economic impact on access to jobs, markets, etc too.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
On that front, there is also an economic impact. Many US, UK, and other products can't be imported into Canada for lack of French.

Many French, Swiss, Belgian, African and others can't be imported into Québec for lack of English. It reduces consumer choice, competition, and so quality and price of available products on the market.
Some estimate it probably pushes consumer costs up a few percentage points.

There is no law against having packaging with no English on it, I don't believe ... maybe, foodstuffs where you have to show ingredients. I'm sure that I've seen all sorts of goods with Chinese only on them in Chinese stores and malls. Anglophones don't generally feel as threatened (as much, anyway) by "others".
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
There is no law against having packaging with no English on it, I don't believe ... maybe, foodstuffs where you have to show ingredients. I'm sure that I've seen all sorts of goods with Chinese only on them in Chinese stores and malls. Anglophones don't generally feel as threatened (as much, anyway) by "others".

If you read the Packaging and Labeling Act, bilingual packaging and labelling must be in both languages with few exceptions including products that target a particular ethnic community.

I too have noticed a lack of English or French on some products in Chinatown. Is it because they're exempted from the ethnic provision of the Act?

Maybe, though I buy them too and I'm not Chinese.

Lack if enforcement, turning a blind eye, bribing enforcement officers, consumers like me not caring so no compaints si the government doesn't know about it?

I don't know.

But I do know if a case in BC where a store owner had to stop selling a bunch of products due to lack of French and he lacked the means to add French to it.

I'm not aware if any case if anyone in Quebec getting in trouble for selling a product labelled in French only, but the law is still on the books.

Another exemption in the law is a local product sold to adjacent municipalities or, with applucable documentation, an exemption to test the market for the product, but then that's a more bureaucratic process to get the exemption.

Yeah I know, I read all kinds of strange stuff like packaging and labeling acts.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
If you read the Packaging and Labeling Act, bilingual packaging and labelling must be in both languages with few exceptions including products that target a particular ethnic community.

I too have noticed a lack of English or French on some products in Chinatown. Is it because they're exempted from the ethnic provision of the Act?

Maybe, though I buy them too and I'm not Chinese.

Lack if enforcement, turning a blind eye, bribing enforcement officers, consumers like me not caring so no compaints si the government doesn't know about it?

I don't know.

But I do know if a case in BC where a store owner had to stop selling a bunch of products due to lack of French and he lacked the means to add French to it.

I'm not aware if any case if anyone in Quebec getting in trouble for selling a product labelled in French only, but the law is still on the books.

Another exemption in the law is a local product sold to adjacent municipalities or, with applucable documentation, an exemption to test the market for the product, but then that's a more bureaucratic process to get the exemption.

Yeah I know, I read all kinds of strange stuff like packaging and labeling acts.
Can you do bar codes without the reader?