WTF is wrong with the police?

[damngrumpy]

Bingo, the force is hiring people who are not qualified and stuffing them in a uniform. Why is it we have so many police who show up like a gang and claim they
are being threatened. What needs to happen is the federal force should go back ot the drawing board and hire and train the right people to do the job, while they still
have even a sliver of respect. Stop this bloody multicultural hiring program and get
people who are both bodily and mentally qualified. Believe it or not, there would be all kinds of minorities, women and others who would qualify on merrit and not
just because of their minority preference

 

[Scott Free]

I agree. IMO this is why gangs are becoming so prevalent. It is because the police have become a rival gang and kids are responding in kind. If the police reflected social norms and values then the police would be a social force. Instead they are a tool for the elite and enforce dictates inappropriate to a democracy. They don't enforce the peoples desires they enforce those of the political elite and enjoy their protection and favour. In such a circumstance crime will always climb, government will become more brutal and eventually be torn apart. It is a slippery slope we could avoid if we would just stop taking the American lead on such issues.

 

[JLM]

I agree. IMO this is why gangs are becoming so prevalent. It is because the police have become a rival gang and kids are responding in kind. If the police reflected social norms and values then the police would be a social force. Instead they are a tool for the elite and enforce dictates inappropriate to a democracy. They don't enforce the peoples desires they enforce those of the political elite and enjoy their protection and favour. In such a circumstance crime will always climb, government will become more brutal and eventually be torn apart. It is a slippery slope we could avoid if we would just stop taking the American lead on such issues.

There could be some truth in what you say. I see the judges as being more of a problem than the police. A couple of years ago (when my van got vandalized) I had the opportunity to speak at length with a really good high class cop, and he was telling me that the biggest frustration he has is the inability to enforce the law and arrest criminals due to all the red tape and lax judges and even when they do go through all the rigmarole and crossing "t"s and dotting "i"s, more often than not the bad guys are back out in a day. I think the cops are mainly good, but it just takes an incident like the four bozos at VYR (actually one wasn't a bozo but a five star criminal) to cast a bad reputation on honourable decent people trying to do their job.

 

[Scott Free]

I don't think having to work within the law is really what's causing problems for the police unless they really are a gang of thugs (meaning they define themselves as such), at which point, yeah, laws are a real b**ch and judges that insist on human rights are a problem. I'm sure most cops would love to bust down anyones door they pleased and throw anyone they suspect in prison. There is a very good reason cops don't have free reign on society (or at least aren't supposed to). I think it all boils down to human laziness. The cop can blame the laws and judges or do his job - which is easier? I think the blame game is.

 

[Tyr]

Private prisons mean bigger payouts to share holders for every prisoner convicted.

The largest industry in Texas USED to be petrochemicals. Now it's the private prison system

 

[Ron in Regina]

This may very well be part of the answer to the question asked in this Thread.
This is Canada-centric though, but an important turning point might be found
here...

Quote from Solicitor General Jean-Pierre Goyer (appointed by P.E.Trudeau)
from a 1971 speech to the House of Commons, on the Liberal government's
agenda for the justice system:

"We have decided to stress the rehabilitation of individuals, rather
than the protection of society."

Close to forty years later, with thousands and thousands of case precedence
based on this philosophy, we now find ourselves in the Shythole we're now in.

At least someone is try'n to now fix this problem to restore balance to a justice
system that has tilted way to far away from peace, order, and good government.
The Conservative Party didn't create the problem, but are trying to fix it....
_____________________

 

[Scott Free]

At least someone is try'n to now fix this problem to restore balance to a justice
system that has tilted way to far away from peace, order, and good government.
The Conservative Party didn't create the problem, but are trying to fix it....
_____________________

Your point is a good one, however, I must ask whether fixing the problem is really the intent.

There are numerous examples that stiffer penalties only increase crime and make the criminals more vicious. For example murder increases if there is a death penalty. It suddenly becomes even more important to tie up loose ends. China has some of the toughest punishments in the world, as does the USA, and yet crime is still rampant in those countries. Do we really want to be like them? It seems our political elite think so anyway.

Which leads me to another point of payoffs. Canada is rated fairly well for its state of democracy, freedom and lack of corruption; certainly higher than China or the USA. So what purpose could there be in changing our system? The changes being purposed mean to restrict the judiciary and give sentencing powers to the state; again like China and the USA - less free countries.

So now lets consider a democratic nation state and how it should operate. It was designed to avoid heavy sentences and overbearing policing. Canada was meant to be governed sensibly, reasonably with moderation. Doesn't turning Canada into a police state do the exact opposite of that?

Now lets presume that somehow this can be rationalized; then we have to ask: but why would a properly functioning democracy need overbearing laws, sentences and fewer liberties? Who is benefiting? Certainly drug use must be combated - or should it? When the problem is so vast that it seems most people are doing them then shouldn't it be legal? Isn't it the prohibition that would be causing the problem? I think so.

The need for stricter laws is always born out of a segment of society not adhering to the dictates of a king. When that segment is this large then either we have no democracy or someone is trying to be king.

It will always cause the state problems when it tries to force its morality on the people instead of getting its morality from the people.

If we don't try and reverse this thinking Canada may be left in tatters.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I won't even pretend to know what goes on between the ears
of a Politician.

Scott, I was thinking specifically of people that are out on the
streets, and get arrested for doing dumb and violent crimes....
and they have 30 or 50 or 80 prior convictions.

Look at that Christopher Pauchey, who made national news
after he dumped his preschool daughters into individual snow
banks at -50c in the night with the kids only wearing diapers
and T-Shirts. He had something like 56 prior convictions
already and was only in his early 20's. Why was this guy still
not in prison somewhere? If he had been, those kids would
still be alive.

I remember hearing about a guy who was arrested for his 87th
"B&E" and he just got more time tacked onto his probation....
which he was already on...No time for that crime.

If you are a prolific repeat offender, with violence, what would
be the magic number of convictions to incarcerate someone for
a long time in the interests of Public Safety as Rehabilitation has
proven not to work for certain individuals???
______________________

 

[petros]

Ron - Want to know exactly what is wrong with the system?

There is no shame. Who do these people have to stand up to? If you toss them in the hoosegow they only come out better criminals in good health. Bring back the hard labour and the shame of the community. Make them pick up used condoms and spent needles instead of the fire dept. They can bust up concrete and push wheel barrows to ease the tax burden and supply cheap labour for this infrsatructure scam the govt is promoting.

With blood, sweat, tears and blisters these punks will learn what it takes to be a man.

 

[Zzarchov]

Ron - Want to know exactly what is wrong with the system?

There is no shame. Who do these people have to stand up to? If you toss them in the hoosegow they only come out better criminals in good health. Bring back the hard labour and the shame of the community. Make them pick up used condoms and spent needles instead of the fire dept. They can bust up concrete and push wheel barrows to ease the tax burden and supply cheap labour for this infrsatructure scam the govt is promoting.

With blood, sweat, tears and blisters these punks will learn what it takes to be a man.

Because with corrupt judges already punishing people without proper evidence to make jails money (in the USA mind you)


An even better deal is to provide free labour that puts money directly into peoples pockets (while costing non-criminals jobs)

No chance for massive corruption there.

The justice system should either rehabilitate you, let you go with a warning/damages, or execute you.

If I were setting one up, those would be the options.

 

[petros]

The US of idea of criminals making your private prison NYSE stock go is insanity. Keep the penn system in public hands and put the criminal to work for the public instead of the corporate empire.

That's what sane nations do.

 

[Scott Free]

I won't even pretend to know what goes on between the ears
of a Politician.

Scott, I was thinking specifically of people that are out on the
streets, and get arrested for doing dumb and violent crimes....
and they have 30 or 50 or 80 prior convictions.

Look at that Christopher Pauchey, who made national news
after he dumped his preschool daughters into individual snow
banks at -50c in the night with the kids only wearing diapers
and T-Shirts. He had something like 56 prior convictions
already and was only in his early 20's. Why was this guy still
not in prison somewhere? If he had been, those kids would
still be alive.

I remember hearing about a guy who was arrested for his 87th
"B&E" and he just got more time tacked onto his probation....
which he was already on...No time for that crime.

If you are a prolific repeat offender, with violence, what would
be the magic number of convictions to incarcerate someone for
a long time in the interests of Public Safety as Rehabilitation has
proven not to work for certain individuals???
______________________

OK, but all the talk I hear on the radio and so forth is about preventative laws which is something entirely different than how the law deals with recidivism. It is in trying to prevent crime that I see our general rights being eroded. I wouldn't want to see a teenager who makes a mistake being treated like a hardened criminal for example or your phone being tapped on a whim. So I have a real reaction to talk about being tougher on crime and it is even more so when I hear police say that the laws and courts are to blame - that just isn't true, it is the same statement to say the reason for crime is that we have too many liberties and too much freedom and police need to be better able to infringe on them.

IMO the reasons for crime are simple: poor education, poor work opportunities, social disenfranchisement, mental illness, disparities in wealth and poverty, the natural result of a materialist society, that people are unable to feel good about themselves if they are poor, opportunity presented by prohibition, and etc... all of these reasons are difficult and expensive to solve - not impossible though, but the cheaper and therefore more appealing solution is to hire more police and reduce peoples liberties. My argument is that, that isn't actually a solution and will only serve to make the problem worse.

 

[petros]

Scott Free - You can already do time in Gitmo for just THINKING about crime. That goes beyond the bounds of reality. Everyone has criminal thoughts daily. Therefore we are all guilty and all suspects under ther new world odor.

 

[Scott Free]

An even better deal is to provide free labour that puts money directly into peoples pockets (while costing non-criminals jobs)

I like that idea. Criminals could be put to work and their wages could go to their victims. The only problem is that we are a slave society and so the criminal is seen to owe society not their victim. We are the queens chattel and so monies earned would go to her not her slaves.

It would be a good idea if people in Canada were free not cottagers.

 

[Scott Free]

Scott Free - You can already do time in Gitmo for just THINKING about crime. That goes beyond the bounds of reality. Everyone has criminal thoughts daily. Therefore we are all guilty and all suspects under ther new world odor.

I agree.

We are entering a frightening era of international corporatism and totalitarianism. Soon the only real role government will play is in oppressing its citizens and making sure trade laws are respected (in other words that the proletariat won't be able to protect themselves).

 

[petros]

When did soon become a past tense?

 

[Zzarchov]

The US of idea of criminals making your private prison NYSE stock go is insanity. Keep the penn system in public hands and put the criminal to work for the public instead of the corporate empire.

That's what sane nations do.

In case you hadn't noticed, we have unemployment.

Making prisoners take jobs that could go to non-criminals is a nice way to punish people who don't break the law.

 

[Zzarchov]

I like that idea. Criminals could be put to work and their wages could go to their victims. The only problem is that we are a slave society and so the criminal is seen to owe society not their victim. We are the queens chattel and so monies earned would go to her not her slaves.

It would be a good idea if people in Canada were free not cottagers.

I was being swiftian...

 

[Scott Free]

When did soon become a past tense?

I got ahead of myself.

 

[petros]

I got ahead of myself.

Well there is no looking back now is there?