Wisconsin Republicans - "No Room For Compromise"

[BaalsTears]

That's not saying very much about anything at all. You could say that about any bill that politicians are working on.

Please allow me to clarify. If the Governor of Wisconsin succeeds, the political power of the public sector unions in Wisconsin will be broken forever. The proposed legislation does many things, inter alia, termination of the right of public sector unions to bargain collectively over anything other than wages. It eliminates the right to collectively bargain over pensions, benefits, and all other terms and conditions of employment.

The proposal makes the public sector unions have to recertify every year, and allows public employees to opt out of the bargaining unit. This will reduce the public sector unions ability to collect dues, which in turn will dry up their coffers as far as being able to fund Democratic Party politicians.

If the Governor of Wisconsin is successful, similar proposals will sweep the nation. For public sector unions the Governor's proposals are existential. This is very exciting.

Union busting, guess so, but they are part of the problem also. It is also against the law for government employees to strike.

If the public sector unions are busted, public employees will still be protected by the civil service system rules.

 

[ironsides]

Please allow me to clarify. If the Governor of Wisconsin succeeds, the political power of the public sector unions in Wisconsin will be broken forever. The proposed legislation does many things, inter alia, termination of the right of public sector unions to bargain collectively over anything other than wages. It eliminates the right to collectively bargain over pensions, benefits, and all other terms and conditions of employment.

The proposal makes the public sector unions have to recertify every year, and allows public employees to opt out of the bargaining unit. This will reduce the public sector unions ability to collect dues, which in turn will dry up their coffers as far as being able to fund Democratic Party politicians.

If the Governor of Wisconsin is successful, similar proposals will sweep the nation. For public sector unions the Governor's proposals are existential. This is very exciting.



If the public sector unions are busted, public employees will still be protected by the civil service system rules.

Of course the civil service system used to offer pretty good benefits even before the unions came into being. Something has to be done to reduce state budgets and the governor is just doing what he said he would do when he ran for office, this is no surprise.

 

[BaalsTears]

Of course the civil service system used to offer pretty good benefits even before the unions came into being. Something has to be done to reduce state budgets and the governor is just doing what he said he would do when he ran for office, this is no surprise.

Agreed.

 

[damngrumpy]

I have been watching this on the news and listening to what ever I can find. In my opinion, it is
much more serious than that. What we may be seeing is the slow undoing of America. It is
bound by financial restraints, taxpayers are at the limit, there are millions of young people out
of touch with reality with a feeling of self entitlement and a work force that has also had enough.
People are not going to allow their standard of living to be eroded anymore than it is already.
Ordinary people see the tax breaks extended for the wealthy and they get what is left over and of
course that is nothing.
We thought the Tea Party was a revolution, well we could be about to see a counter revolution
by the ordinary working people. It is said we (western societies) can't compete with the third world
job market. That is true. What may well happen is this. The WTO will be dead and all bets are off.
Large Corporations have been forbidden to operate business in Cuba for now on fifty years. If the
US Government can enforce that embargo, they can in effect force American Companies out of some
of the third world nations. Up until now they are reluctant to do that, but under pressure who knows.
I have heard rumors the current round of trade talks are already dead, killed by the Europeans.
It was always believed that the changes in economics of world trade was to raise the third world up,
not tear everyone else down which has happened. You will see the western countries pull out of some
of these trade deals within the decade and tariffs will be the order of the day.
In any event economic tough times will be with us for many years to come, as trade deficits and a
mountain of debt are about to wash over us. Protectionism will appease the people regardless of
whether it is good or bad, doesn't matter. it will be everyone for themselves.
Political and social unrest always comes with upheaval and sudden change. We saw it during the
early days of social change with the Magna Carta, Again the Industrial Revolution produced the Luddites
and the scoundrels alike. The first technical revolution saw economic disaster nearly two decades ago
and Japan for one is still somewhat in the grip of the downturn.
What the workers of American and Canada for that matter, have to understand there are no easy answers
in fact there is no immediate answer period. The reason is we never planned for disaster,, not management
nor the labour force or the unions. Our governments were on a populist gravy train they thought would never
end and now everyone has to face the music.
What the hell happened and who is to blame? Everyone. In a class by himself is Ronald Reagan. it all started
when Ronnie went to Berlin and said Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall. The problem is Gorbie did just that.
With the Cold War over we all went on a consumer spending binge that continues to this day unabated.
We could be on the brink of watching America tear itself apart, as the reasonable center gives way to the
polarized left and right. It could be the earmark for the second full scale American Civil War. and that would
only bring famine to the land of prosperity,

 

[BaalsTears]

I have been watching this on the news and listening to what ever I can find. In my opinion, it is
much more serious than that. What we may be seeing is the slow undoing of America. It is
bound by financial restraints, taxpayers are at the limit, there are millions of young people out
of touch with reality with a feeling of self entitlement and a work force that has also had enough.
People are not going to allow their standard of living to be eroded anymore than it is already.
Ordinary people see the tax breaks extended for the wealthy and they get what is left over and of
course that is nothing.
We thought the Tea Party was a revolution, well we could be about to see a counter revolution
by the ordinary working people. It is said we (western societies) can't compete with the third world
job market. That is true. What may well happen is this. The WTO will be dead and all bets are off.
Large Corporations have been forbidden to operate business in Cuba for now on fifty years. If the
US Government can enforce that embargo, they can in effect force American Companies out of some
of the third world nations. Up until now they are reluctant to do that, but under pressure who knows.
I have heard rumors the current round of trade talks are already dead, killed by the Europeans.
It was always believed that the changes in economics of world trade was to raise the third world up,
not tear everyone else down which has happened. You will see the western countries pull out of some
of these trade deals within the decade and tariffs will be the order of the day.
In any event economic tough times will be with us for many years to come, as trade deficits and a
mountain of debt are about to wash over us. Protectionism will appease the people regardless of
whether it is good or bad, doesn't matter. it will be everyone for themselves.
Political and social unrest always comes with upheaval and sudden change. We saw it during the
early days of social change with the Magna Carta, Again the Industrial Revolution produced the Luddites
and the scoundrels alike. The first technical revolution saw economic disaster nearly two decades ago
and Japan for one is still somewhat in the grip of the downturn.
What the workers of American and Canada for that matter, have to understand there are no easy answers
in fact there is no immediate answer period. The reason is we never planned for disaster,, not management
nor the labour force or the unions. Our governments were on a populist gravy train they thought would never
end and now everyone has to face the music.
What the hell happened and who is to blame? Everyone. In a class by himself is Ronald Reagan. it all started
when Ronnie went to Berlin and said Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall. The problem is Gorbie did just that.
With the Cold War over we all went on a consumer spending binge that continues to this day unabated.
We could be on the brink of watching America tear itself apart, as the reasonable center gives way to the
polarized left and right. It could be the earmark for the second full scale American Civil War. and that would
only bring famine to the land of prosperity,

Excellent post. Incisive. I agree with about three-quarters of what you've written.

America was elevated by good fortune, wise leadership when it counted, and a correlation of historic forces.

The correlation of historic forces was never meant to last. All things pass in time.

But American foolishness has caused the premature end of empire. And now what I call the Great Reckoning is upon an American people who are unprepared to deal with reality.

America has already passed the tipping point. What was cannot be saved. The forces and processes of history can be used by those Americans who can see and understand them as a work in process.

For those Americans who can't, there is Canada and the hope of a new life.

 

[ironsides]

I have been watching this on the news and listening to what ever I can find. In my opinion, it is
much more serious than that. What we may be seeing is the slow undoing of America. It is
bound by financial restraints, taxpayers are at the limit, there are millions of young people out
of touch with reality with a feeling of self entitlement and a work force that has also had enough.
People are not going to allow their standard of living to be eroded anymore than it is already.
Ordinary people see the tax breaks extended for the wealthy and they get what is left over and of
course that is nothing.
We thought the Tea Party was a revolution, well we could be about to see a counter revolution
by the ordinary working people. It is said we (western societies) can't compete with the third world
job market. That is true. What may well happen is this. The WTO will be dead and all bets are off.
Large Corporations have been forbidden to operate business in Cuba for now on fifty years. If the
US Government can enforce that embargo, they can in effect force American Companies out of some
of the third world nations. Up until now they are reluctant to do that, but under pressure who knows.
I have heard rumors the current round of trade talks are already dead, killed by the Europeans.
It was always believed that the changes in economics of world trade was to raise the third world up,
not tear everyone else down which has happened. You will see the western countries pull out of some
of these trade deals within the decade and tariffs will be the order of the day.
In any event economic tough times will be with us for many years to come, as trade deficits and a
mountain of debt are about to wash over us. Protectionism will appease the people regardless of
whether it is good or bad, doesn't matter. it will be everyone for themselves.
Political and social unrest always comes with upheaval and sudden change. We saw it during the
early days of social change with the Magna Carta, Again the Industrial Revolution produced the Luddites
and the scoundrels alike. The first technical revolution saw economic disaster nearly two decades ago
and Japan for one is still somewhat in the grip of the downturn.
What the workers of American and Canada for that matter, have to understand there are no easy answers
in fact there is no immediate answer period. The reason is we never planned for disaster,, not management
nor the labour force or the unions. Our governments were on a populist gravy train they thought would never
end and now everyone has to face the music.
What the hell happened and who is to blame? Everyone. In a class by himself is Ronald Reagan. it all started
when Ronnie went to Berlin and said Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall. The problem is Gorbie did just that.
With the Cold War over we all went on a consumer spending binge that continues to this day unabated.
We could be on the brink of watching America tear itself apart, as the reasonable center gives way to the
polarized left and right. It could be the earmark for the second full scale American Civil War. and that would
only bring famine to the land of prosperity,

I am not sure it would lead to another civil war, but I can see that if the United States requires all our countries to stop outsourcing jobs to third world countries, they would starve. Then again by outsourcing, we have lost our electrical/mechanical assemblers or just assemblers who made up the majority of our lower income work force. If would be in our best interest to do that, there it used to be a bridge to higher paying jobs. Everyone cannot be a higher paid engineer, scientist etc. Most of these problems are our fault for not realizing the long term consequences that outsourcing would do to us. Now we have to adjust and hopefully unrest will be held to a minimum, the citizens have to learn that what ever they want they will have to work for, and that is all they are entitled to. We were spoiled.

Excellent post. Incisive. I agree with about three-quarters of what you've written.

America was elevated by good fortune, wise leadership when it counted, and a correlation of historic forces.

The correlation of historic forces was never meant to last. All things pass in time.

But American foolishness has caused the premature end of empire. And now what I call the Great Reckoning is upon an American people who are unprepared to deal with reality.

America has already passed the tipping point. What was cannot be saved. The forces and processes of history can be used by those Americans who can see and understand them as a work in process.

For those Americans who can't, there is Canada and the hope of a new life.

Canada was spoiled even worse.

 

[Glenfilthie]

There will be no question about who wins this. The individual states are going broke, unemployment is at sky high levels - and there is little patience with the pooch screwing unions and their endless demands. Couple that with the dismal performance of publicly schooled kids - and the writing is on the wall.

There is nothing new here. Ronald Reagan put the boots to the same entitlement slobs in the air traffic controllers dispute and Maggie Thatcher did the same with the miner's union. If the current idiot in the Whitehouse doesn't do it - he'll be turfed and replaced by somebody who will.

 

[petros]

Unions and workers again eh?

The CEO of Intel when asked why don't they manufacture instead of just design their technology in the US he replied "taxes make manufacturing in the US too expensive".

Spending money they don't have on empire building has created budget deficeits and debt so huge that 100% taxation of both business and workers wouldn't cover interest on the debt.

The free ride is over.

 

[damngrumpy]

Ronald Reagan screwed up, instead of doing something and establishing a new
structure for how things were to be done, he merely destroyed structure in the
society period and that has led us to where we are today unfortunately.
Again it is not all one or the other there are many good unions and some not so.
Most people who point to the unions as the problem fail to grasp that over 90%
of the union contracts come about without labour strife and public rancor.
The ten percent get the coverage and carry a very bad name for the institution.
I have been both a labour leader and a general manager, I see there is room for
both in the work force there has to be. The problem now is that the management
and the union are both under the same gun dictated by the same law of supply
and demand. One of the solutions for Americans in the global workforce is the
union and companies working together to build something new out of the ashes
of economic destruction. Either that or there will be a hell of a lot of civil unrest
in the coming decade. People are about to find out this is the new reality and
we are not going to a new area of prosperity anytime soon.

 

[taxslave]

Union busting, guess so, but they are part of the problem also. It is also against the law for government employees to strike.

We don't have that fortune except for a few emergency services. That is why our bureaucracy can demand so much money for so little work. They have the power to disrupt everyones life.

 

[petros]

Read the article below and tell me I'm wrong that Canada will soon see a sharp rise in immigration from the US not just because of our the skilled labour shortages.

If they can't afford police will the army have to step in or will citizens start patrolling?

I'm in Canada's Camden NJ when it comes to crime. The Regina PD can't keep up as it is and the force is growing rather than being cut back and that's with the expensive drug unit already being integrated with RCMP staff and funding.

How can anyone foresee any good in the near future in the US?

I just hope they don't have to endure the same refugee rigamarole we've been forced to put in place as a Muzzie thanks to US foreign policy spilling over.

Crime-ridden Camden, N.J., cuts police force nearly in half

The mayor of crime-ridden Camden, New Jersey, has announced layoffs of nearly half of the city's police force and close to a third of its fire department.

One hundred sixty-eight police officers and 67 firefighters were laid off Tuesday, as officials struggle to close a $26.5 million budget gap through a series of belt-tightening measures, Mayor Dana Redd told reporters. The layoffs take effect immediately.

Redd said she was unable to secure the $8 million in budget concessions that she says she needed to save the jobs of up to 100 police officers and many of the city's firefighters.

The mayor -- who said she will continue negotiations with police and fire unions -- had been asking the workers to pay more for their health care, freeze or reduce their salaries and take furlough days.

The apparent impasse has left administrators of a city with the second-highest crime rate in the nation scrambling to figure out solutions to keep residents safe. Camden is second only to St. Louis, Missouri, in annual rankings of cities based on compilations of FBI crime statistics.

Some clerical officers were demoted and reassigned to the streets, the mayor said, pledging that the cuts would not affect public safety.

"We're still going to protect our residents," said Robert Corrales, spokesman for Redd. Public safety "will remain our top concern.
We'll shift our resources to be more efficient with what we have."

But police and firefighter union officials say the layoffs will most certainly have an impact.

"It's absolutely, physically impossible to cover the same amount of ground in the same amount of time with less people," said John Williamson, president of the Fraternal Order of Police union in Camden. "Response times will be slower."
One local business owner, David Brown, said he does not "understand how you can do more with less."

"I don't want to be a pessimist, but I can't be optimistic."

Camden resident and sanitation worker Gloria Valentin said she is now fearful that the city does not have enough police protection to keep people safe.

"Today is a real sad day in the city of Camden," she said.

 

[BaalsTears]

Read the article below and tell me I'm wrong that Canada will soon see a sharp rise in immigration from the US not just because of our the skilled labour shortages.

If they can't afford police will the army have to step in or will citizens start patrolling?

I'm in Canada's Camden NJ when it comes to crime. The Regina PD can't keep up as it is and the force is growing rather than being cut back and that's with the expensive drug unit already being integrated with RCMP staff and funding.

How can anyone foresee any good in the near future in the US?

I just hope they don't have to endure the same refugee rigamarole we've been forced to put in place as a Muzzie thanks to US foreign policy spilling over.

...

You are right about large numbers of Americans coming to Canada. Some will be skilled, but many will be unskilled.

Americans will just say they are tourists, drive across the border, and stay. That's all it takes. Canada won't stop them. Even if tried, it couldn't stop them any more than America can stop illegal aliens coming into the country from Mexico.

 

[Glenfilthie]

The long term picture is not all doom and gloom. America, like Canada - has been very, very stupid with it's money and property. We will be in the same boat shortly too.

We have given our country and money away to human trash that don't deserve it or appreciate it, our social programs have gone from being safety nets to being hammocks for stupid people to lie in - and the wake up call has come. The solution is obvious too - cut spending and taxes like an axe murderer, put the freeloaders and pooch screwers to work, and above all - get that current moron in the Oval Office out on the street and put an adult in.

 

[taxslave]

You were doing so good. Right up to the last line.

 

[petros]

You are right about large numbers of Americans coming to Canada. Some will be skilled, but many will be unskilled.

Americans will just say they are tourists, drive across the border, and stay. That's all it takes. Canada won't stop them. Even if tried, it couldn't stop them any more than America can stop illegal aliens coming into the country from Mexico.

We already have lots of American aliens. They stationed themselve's here instead of Iraq.

The long term picture is not all doom and gloom. America, like Canada - has been very, very stupid with it's money and property. We will be in the same boat shortly too.

We have given our country and money away to human trash that don't deserve it or appreciate it, our social programs have gone from being safety nets to being hammocks for stupid people to lie in - and the wake up call has come. The solution is obvious too - cut spending and taxes like an axe murderer, put the freeloaders and pooch screwers to work, and above all - get that current moron in the Oval Office out on the street and put an adult in.

So how do you propose debt gets repaid and operating costs are covered? Sell more porn, oranges and bombs?

The govt can take nice juicy loans on those hammock swingers and give them 0.01% of that to feed and house them. We are all owned and held as collateral. How else do you think the hammock swingers can have their kid's taken away by govt without govt being the owners of their kids and you kid gets blown to bits by an orange or a bomb it's just collateral damage and not the loss of a human being.

 

[damngrumpy]

The American way is what has saved it in the past, where other societies including
Britain had their class system America was able to overcome that apparently not
anymore and that will be its downfall if it cannot pull itself together for one more go
at it. As for the current situation, there are many hard working people out there who
are without jobs as the economic world shifted beneath their feet. These people are
not lazy or shiftless and deserve respect. As for the safety net becoming a catch all
it is true. Look who actually initiated that action though, the more conservative labelled
governments did it to keep people happy while they sold out the American and Canadian
workers.
We need to maintain a good standard of living and the trade deals should reflect that in
deals made. Workers in the third world should have their working conditions raised not
ours lowered. Think about this, most of those companies over there making money off
the prices we pay while abandoning their economic and social responsibilities are in fact
our companies, trading on our stock exchange. More of our citizens and indeed the
unions who have their pension funds in those companies have to start speaking out or
taking action. Right now the worker is being abuse by the marketplace and the companies,
not to mention their own unions. Union management has become more about managing
the pension funds that it is about the condition of the workers.
While I agree many harsh reforms are needed, to bring things into line with reality, at the
same time the very rich and the corporations that have had a free ride are now going to
have to pony up as well.
There is a new reality out there it started some time ago and to blame the current president
for the ills created by other administrations from Reagan through Clinton and Bush is not
acceptable. Granted Obama has not produced all the glory he promised but he is still a hell
of a lot better than W ever was.
The problem is other Presidents knew what they were doing and how it could backfire, including
Clinton, W Bush didn't understand any of it he listened to advisers with agenda's of their own.
Obama has taken over the biggest pile of crap to deal with since the Great Depression.
To insinuate he is not being an adult is without foundation. The President the same as our PM
has to think about the nation as a whole, and the good of the nation ultimately is what is good for
the long term interests of the people.
Wisconsin Workers may well have lit the fuse to the biggest confrontation America has seen in
more than forty years, but at the end of the day the bills will still have to be paid, and we all know
who is going to pay them. It is better to have a cooperative effort that to start passing the collection
plate of blame around, that in the end will help no one.

 

[ironsides]

You are right about large numbers of Americans coming to Canada. Some will be skilled, but many will be unskilled.

Americans will just say they are tourists, drive across the border, and stay. That's all it takes. Canada won't stop them. Even if tried, it couldn't stop them any more than America can stop illegal aliens coming into the country from Mexico.

Yes, but we speak fluent Canadian.

Technical jobs are coming back, the aircraft industry is hiring again. Nothing will replace the 8 million or so jobs lost, at least not in the foreseeable future though, not even Canada. Canada has their own problems also related to ours.

The long term picture is not all doom and gloom. America, like Canada - has been very, very stupid with it's money and property. We will be in the same boat shortly too.

We have given our country and money away to human trash that don't deserve it or appreciate it, our social programs have gone from being safety nets to being hammocks for stupid people to lie in - and the wake up call has come. The solution is obvious too - cut spending and taxes like an axe murderer, put the freeloaders and pooch screwers to work, and above all - get that current moron in the Oval Office out on the street and put an adult in.

It is to late, the current moron as you so delicately put it along with our past moron has put us so far in the hole that it will take years to recover. We the present morons are stuck and can only make the best of it.

 

[petros]

Yes, but we speak fluent Canadian.

Technical jobs are coming back, the aircraft industry is hiring again. Nothing will replace the 8 million or so jobs lost, at least not in the foreseeable future though, not even Canada. Canada has their own problems also related to ours.

Almost, even I can barely understand Newfoundlandic.

The 8 million jobs are only the ones counted by unemployment insurance. The number those who are off benefits, lost their farms and self employed who lost their business aren't included

It is to late, the current moron as you so delicately put it along with our past moron has put us so far in the hole that it will take years to recover. We the present morons are stuck and can only make the best of it.

The moron in the White House didn't scam trillions from investors. It's Wall Street, London and EBIC that keep ripping us all off. He just upped the debt and hocked your great great grandchildren to the Fed Reserve.

 

[BaalsTears]

We already have lots of American aliens. They stationed themselve's here instead of Iraq.

...

You haven't seen anything yet in terms of American migration to Canada. America is the third most populace country in the world. Only China and India are larger. California by itself is more populace than Canada.

Canada and America have the longest undefended border in the world. You folks simply have no idea of the magnitude of what is coming your way. We are more numerous than the stars in the night sky. Large scale American migration will change Canada just as large scale Mexican migration has changed America.

 

[petros]

I know exactly what is coming and look forward to giving snowshoe and ice fishing lessons in my retirement.