Will Neocon Fanaticism Destroy America?

unclepercy

Electoral Member
Jun 4, 2005
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peapod said:
Bet ya there were some nice fuzzy warm apple pie pics coming out of germany in the da late thirties to....reminds me of styx...the grand illusion.

I don't remember back that far. But coming out of the mall were 3 free cars, diamonds, gift certificates by the dozens, gift baskets,
trips, free concerts, oh - and clothing, shoes, lots of gold jewelry, toys, electronics, - all free. It was better than apple pie.

Uncle
 

peapod

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Jun 26, 2004
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Ah! yes all the important things in life...hehehhehehehe...hope those diamonds were canadian eh?? not blood there eh? hehehhehehe, I had to pick myself off the floor I was laughing so hard! You have summed up perfectly the cheap shallow dreams of the neocons :wink:
 

Kellen

Nominee Member
Sep 26, 2005
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peapod said:
Ah! yes all the important things in life...hehehhehehehe...hope those diamonds were canadian eh?? not blood there eh? hehehhehehe, I had to pick myself off the floor I was laughing so hard! You have summed up perfectly the cheap shallow dreams of the neocons :wink:
'

Umm, what? The neocons dream is to give out free stuff at malls? Weird, maybe theyre not such bad guys after all.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Kellen said:
peapod said:
Ah! yes all the important things in life...hehehhehehehe...hope those diamonds were canadian eh?? not blood there eh? hehehhehehe, I had to pick myself off the floor I was laughing so hard! You have summed up perfectly the cheap shallow dreams of the neocons :wink:
'

Umm, what? The neocons dream is to give out free stuff at malls? Weird, maybe theyre not such bad guys after all.


not "free" stuff........ items like that are just bribes. ...and give the ILLUSION of "generosity " , "wealth" and well being. Appeals to the "greed gene";-)........


and not to concern oneself about being "pointed at".... gosh, ya'll have EARNED it......big time. (Y'all being dem neo-con fascists- '05 strain /variety) (just ask the rest of the world...;-)
 

Canucklehead

Moderator
Apr 6, 2005
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Instead of flaunting the excessive profits merchants are making at the customer's expense by offering these freebies why not give a slight reduction in prices across the board. That would sure help more people than the few hundred who walked out with a free bauble and inspire broader loyalty. If the stores are so pathetic in quality, price and/or customer service that they require giveaways to attract customers, do they really deserve your patronage? Show us ya really care... offer all items in the store at 30% of (of..not off) sticker and maybe...just maybe... generosity would apporach an appropriate description.
...but...
It would be very anti-capitalistic to do something as insane as give the people a quality product at a reasonable cost when the whole idea now is to leave the game with the most ca$h. :roll:
 

jjw1965

Electoral Member
Jul 8, 2005
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America is happy and prosperous. I felt safe alone. Everyone was enjoying themselves and buying heavily. We have not been destroyed - don't jump to conclusions.

America is happy - Among women, one in 10 now take an antidepressant drug. The number of children using antidepressants also has tripled since the 1994-96 study period.

The report also revealed that prescription drug costs are increasing faster than any other area of medical care as more Americans take drugs for a wide range of reasons. According to the report, the cost for healthcare in 2002 climbed to $1.6 trillion. Of that figure, prescription drugs accounted for $162 billion.

About half of all Americans take at least one prescription drug, the study found.

Everyone was enjoying themselves and buying heavily.
You may have previously viewed the historic pictures in the Federal Government Debt Report, which covers just the federal government debt of $7.6 Trillion, or $26,000 per child. This report covers all U.S. debt, called Total America Debt (defined as the sum of all recognized debt of federal, state & local governments, international, private households, business and domestic financial sectors, including federal debt to trust funds - but excludes the huge un-funded contingent liabilities of social security, government pensions and Medicare). Total Debt in America is now over $40 Trillion, or $136,479 per man, woman and child.

And as far as America not being destroyed, The neocon agenda has done everything that it possibly can to take away our liberties and rights and everything that I hold dear.

We have the glorious Patriot Act, cameras everywhere, our children on anti-depressants, all to keep us safe right? safe from whom? the few Muslims you spoke of?

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy going out and talking to people, having fun and doing things that I have always done, but you can't always tell whats going on in the world by what you see in the mall.
 

unclepercy

Electoral Member
Jun 4, 2005
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peapod said:
Ah! yes all the important things in life...hehehhehehehe...hope those diamonds were canadian eh?? not blood there eh? hehehhehehe, I had to pick myself off the floor I was laughing so hard! You have summed up perfectly the cheap shallow dreams of the neocons :wink:

If what I described is being a neocon, then I am proud to be one.
Let's all be neocons, and then we will have:

1. Prosperity
2. Social skills
3. Families sharing time together
4. Fun, singing, music and laughter
5. Generosity
6. A sense of community
7. Beauty
8. Concern for others (I stumbled on a curb and a nice lady
caught me - expressing concern)
9. Friends
10. Manners

These are the things I observed over the course of 3 days. Not random exceptions - overall 100%.

Turn off that cynicism, criticism, fanaticism, name calling, and nitpicking. I'm happy.

Uncle
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Your analysis is accurate, Uncle. Spoken like a true compasionate conservative.

Each one of the traits you've described below characterizes many of us conservative minded folks. Those on the left are envious that many of their views interfere with inheriting these traits.

unclepercy said:
1. Prosperity
2. Social skills
3. Families sharing time together
4. Fun, singing, music and laughter
5. Generosity
6. A sense of community
7. Beauty
8. Concern for others (I stumbled on a curb and a nice lady
caught me - expressing concern)
9. Friends
10. Manners
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Turn off that cynicism, criticism, fanaticism, name calling, and nitpicking. I'm happy.

Uncle


If you are "happy"......then what others views might be , critique or whatever , would not bother ya, now would they??? :wink:


the "characteristics" you list.......are not political--leanings - oriented as much as general human qualities one might find across the board. :? They are trans -politics :wink: You would not be suggesting that these personal characteristics are not found in most humanoids??? ...... :?:

but you can't always tell whats going on in the world by what you see in the mall.

of course not. A mall is a condensed arena of hi intensity consumerism. Sell, sell , sell, .......buy, buy , buy. It is NOT an area that represents world politics, or the underhanded schemes that go into politics. (underhanded business deals??? probably... not any less/more than the norm ;-)
 

peapod

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Jun 26, 2004
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1. Prosperity
2. Social skills
3. Families sharing time together
4. Fun, singing, music and laughter
5. Generosity
6. A sense of community
7. Beauty
8. Concern for others (I stumbled on a curb and a nice lady
caught me - expressing concern)
9. Friends
10. Manners

How touching :cry: :cry: a hallmark fest 8) you forgot the apple pie in the oven....seems to me you find exactly the same thing in a chimp clan.
 

peapod

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Jun 26, 2004
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.Prosperity---thats what all chimps want, their very own stash of b'nanners.

Social skills-- chimps got this in spades, they how to mix it up and mingle.

Family sharing time---ha! just watch some chimps grooming da family...they eat the bits they find to 8O now thats sharing and careing

Fun, singling and laughter--- ha..the chimps spend alot of time doing dat..oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Geneorsity---in spades, why I have even seen where they share there tips on how they use a stick to get termites out of their mounds...again sharing and careing

A sense of community--just watch them nasty buggers go hunting for meat...

beauty---well who better than a family that lives in da trees

Concern for others-- A chimp will fight to the death for his family and mates..

Friends---in spades again, everybody loves da chimps

Manners---every chimp I ever met, definately had manners, even when its just monkey business.

So what you have described as neocon values...well the same can be said of a band of chimps.
 

unclepercy

Electoral Member
Jun 4, 2005
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Ocean Breeze said:
Turn off that cynicism, criticism, fanaticism, name calling, and nitpicking. I'm happy.

Uncle


If you are "happy"......then what others views might be , critique or whatever , would not bother ya, now would they??? :wink:


the "characteristics" you list.......are not political--leanings - oriented as much as general human qualities one might find across the board. :? They are trans -politics :wink: You would not be suggesting that these personal characteristics are not found in most humanoids??? ...... :?:

but you can't always tell whats going on in the world by what you see in the mall.

Then - if indeed the qualities I listed are tran-politics, why did you attempt to put it into a political context: "You have summed up perfectly the cheap shallow dreams of the neocons?"

Uncle
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Bush's Terrifying Terror Speech
By Robert Parry
October 10, 2005


George W. Bush’s Oct. 6 speech demanding “complete victory” in the “war on terror” unnerved some Americans who saw a president who looked and sounded like an obsessed sea captain charting the ship of state into an endless storm.

To allay some of those worries, we are offering the White House a draft for a follow-up speech in which Bush can speak straight to the concerns of his doubters. Like another draft that we proposed last summer, we don’t expect this one will get very far.

“My fellow Americans, I hear that many of you who watched my speech the other day came away a little spooked. Some of you thought I sounded crazy because I made it seem like we’d be at war in the Middle East forever.

“Some even wondered what it means to win a ‘complete victory’ over ‘terror?’ After all, ‘terror’ is an emotion or a tactic, so how do you defeat an emotion or a tactic?

“Some historians also note that terror has been part of war for eons. It’s even in the Bible, with one tribe’s army slaughtering the civilians of another tribe. So how do you completely win a ‘war on terror’ even if you fight for decades?

Civilian Dead

“Some of you also wondered how I could be so self-righteous, condemning some people who kill civilians to achieve a political goal when I did the same in invading Iraq. Some of you remembered those Iraqi men, women and children who died during my ‘shock and awe’ bombing campaign at the start of the Iraq War.

“Like that Baghdad restaurant I had bombed because I thought Saddam might be eating there. It turned out Saddam wasn’t around, but we did kill 14 civilians, including seven children. ‘Isn’t that a form of terrorism?’ some of you ask.

“There were a lot of those stories during the invasion – and later, too, like when I ordered the Marines to retake Fallujah with the help of 500-pound bombs and other heavy ordnance. No matter how careful our troops are it’s just inevitable that kids and civilians are going to die. That’s why a lot of you think that war should be a last resort, never waged for frivolous or made-up reasons.

“Maybe that’s why you shook your heads when I said, ‘When 25 Iraqi children are killed in a bombing, … this is murder, pure and simple.’ Some of you thought it was a bit hypocritical to condemn evildoers for killing kids with bombs when I’ve done the same.

“The problem with that kind of thinking is what we call ‘moral equivalence,’ which means holding me to the same standards as my enemies. That’s a mistake because I represent what’s good and my enemies stand for what’s bad, what I like to call ‘evil.’ Remember, after the Sept. 11 attacks, I told you my goal was to ‘rid the world of evil.’

Evidence

“Even though I have no doubt about the morality of our cause, some of you are still miffed that I told you we were going to war in Iraq because of Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction and his ties to al-Qaeda when it turned out there weren’t any.

“You also get annoyed when I keep saying that our enemies want to hurt us because they hate our freedom.

“Some of you insist that Muslims don’t hate our freedom. It’s that they view us and the Brits as their historical oppressors. They think we’ve propped up corrupt dictators for generations so we could take their oil – like the Saudi royals, the Kuwaiti princes, the Shah of Iran, even Saddam Hussein when my dad was in office.

“You say these Muslims remember how we toppled a democratic government in Iran when it got too greedy about its oil, how we gave green lights to the Egyptian security forces to crack down on dissent, and how we backed the Algerian army when it voided elections because the side we favored looked like it was going to lose.

“Another funny thing is that it seems like more Muslims than Americans remember how I got into office by having some of my dad’s friends on the U.S. Supreme Court stop the counting of votes when I was getting nervous that I might lose.

“Well, I responded to these concerns in my speech, when I said, ‘these extremists want to end American and Western influence in the broader Middle East, because we stand for democracy and peace.’ That's almost the same as saying they hate our freedom.

“I thought another really good part of my speech was when I accused the Islamic radicals of trying ‘to build a culture of victimization, in which someone else is always to blame and violence is always the solution.’

“Some of you felt that this ‘psychobabble’ didn’t belong in a presidential speech, that it sounded more like what you’d hear on some radio talk show hosted by Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, who often accuse their adversaries of wanting to be victims.

“Others of you viewed this a case of me ‘projecting’ my own behavior onto my enemies – that I feel I’m the real victim and that I turn to violence as a solution. Well, that sounds wacky to me, not to mention paranoid, like someone’s trying to make me look nutty.

Faulty Logic

“Others of you have suggested that the logic in the speech was a little screwy, like when I put down people who contend that my invasion of Iraq made a difficult situation a whole lot worse. I slapped that argument down by saying,

‘Some have also argued that extremism has been strengthened by the actions of our coalition in Iraq, claiming that our presence in that country has somehow caused or triggered the rage of radicals. I would remind them that we were not in Iraq on September the 11th, 2001 – and al Qaeda attacked us anyway.’

“I thought the line was pretty clever, but some of you have complained that it was a cheap shot, a way to make that subliminal connection again between Iraq and Sept. 11. Some people even call an argument like the one I made ‘sophistry,’ which is a fancy word that means a plausible but misleading argument.

“I guess their point is that just about everybody, including the CIA, thinks that my war in Iraq has strengthened Islamic extremism and spread anti-Americanism around the world. A lot of these experts say that before the Iraq War, al-Qaeda was a small, isolated group that had been pretty much chased to the ends of the earth, or in this case into the mountains of Afghanistan.

“Islamic extremists had lost in Egypt, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and a lot of other countries. Even the government of Sudan had booted Osama bin-Laden out.

“Then, in summer 2001, the U.S. government let its guard down. Warnings were missed, reports went unread, the bureaucracy seemed paralyzed. So our enemies hit us on Sept. 11.

“After that, the whole world rallied to America’s side. We had lots of support in going after al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Even some unfriendly governments in the Middle East turned over intelligence information to help us neutralize al-Qaeda.

“But some of you think that I blundered by diverting troops out of Afghanistan too soon and rushing into Iraq without UN sanction. You say that I surrendered the moral high ground by killing lots of innocent Iraqis, by having no realistic plan for securing Iraq, and by letting terrorist groups become active there.

“That’s why I answered those arguments in my speech by saying that al-Qaeda attacked us before I invaded Iraq. And I don’t care if you don’t think my statement makes any sense. Plus, my best argument now for continuing the war in Iraq is that the place might get even more messed up if we leave.

“In my speech, I also tried to explain the stakes. I compared the fight against Islamic terrorism to the long Cold War against Soviet-style communism.

“I understand that some of you disagree, saying that the two really aren’t that comparable, that the Cold War was a standoff between two superpowers while al-Qaeda remains a fringe extremist group even in the Muslim world.

“But didn’t I sound like Winston Churchill when I said, ‘We will never back down, never give in, and never accept anything less than complete victory.’

“Still, just in case that kind of talk made some of you nervous – as if I was leading you and your children and your children’s children into a dark cave with no exit – I vouched for the inevitability of our victory.

I said, ‘Whatever lies ahead in the war against this ideology, the outcome is not in doubt: Those who despise freedom and progress have condemned themselves to isolation, decline, and collapse.’

”Then I went with a hopeful tone. I said, ‘Because free peoples believe in the future, free peoples will own the future.’

Commitment

“Which leads me to a final question that some of you have asked about, the so-called ‘gap’ between the stakes that I’ve described in this long war and the paucity of sacrifice that well-to-do Americans have made.

For instance, some people wonder why my daughters, Jenna and Barbara, haven’t enlisted or why so few of my social acquaintances have sent their kids to fight?

“The same question could have been asked about me, you know, during the Vietnam War. Why did I accept a stateside slot in the Texas Air National Guard, skip a required physical, miss meetings and quit early? Why didn’t I mix it up with the commies?

“But what some of you don’t understand is that if the fighting and dying is done by people we don’t know, then we decision-makers are freed up to make the necessary hard choices – without having to worry about whether one of our loved ones or the loved ones of our friends will be put in harm’s way.

“With our own children at home, we don’t flinch when we order sacrifices vital for the country but likely to get a lot of our soldiers killed. In other words, if I personally knew some of the almost 2,000 American dead, I might hesitate. I might settle for a solution short of ‘complete victory.’

So, like I said in my speech, ‘We don't know the course of our own struggle – the course our own struggle will take – or the sacrifices that might lie ahead. We do know, however, that the defense of freedom is worth our sacrifice. We do know the love of freedom is the mightiest force of history. And we do know the cause of freedom will once again prevail. May God bless you.’”
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Seems that not everyone is polyanna happy, happy

Is This the Death of America?
America's sense of itself - its pride in its power - has been profoundly damaged

by Dermot Purgavie



This week Karen Hughes, long-time political adviser to George Bush, began her new mission as the State Department's official defender of America's image with a tour of the Middle East.

She might have been more help to her beleaguered president had she stayed at home and used her PR skills on her neighbors. At the end of a cruel and turbulent summer, nobody is more dismayed and demoralized about America than Americans.

They have watched with growing disbelief and horror as a convergence of events - dominated by the unending war in Iraq and two hurricanes - have exposed ugly and disturbing things in the undergrowth that shame and embarrass Americans and undermine their belief in the nation and its values.

With TV providing a ceaseless backdrop of the country's failings - a crippled and tone-deaf president, a negligent government, corruption, military atrocities, soaring debt, racial conflict, poverty, bloated bodies in floodwater, people dying on camera for want of food, water and medicine - it seemed things were falling apart in the land where happiness is promoted in the constitution.

Disillusioning news was everywhere. In the flight from Hurricane Rita, evacuees fought knife fights over cans of petrol. In storm-hit Louisiana there were long queues at gun stores as people armed themselves against looters.

America, which has the world's costliest health care, had, it turned out, higher infant mortality rates than the broke and despised Cuba.

Tom De Lay, Republican enforcer in the House of Representatives, was indicted for conspiracy and money laundering. The leader of the Republicans in the Senate was under investigation for his stock dealings. And Osama bin Laden was still on the loose.

Americans are the planet's biggest flag wavers. They are reared on the conceit that theirs is the world's best and most enviable country, born only the day before yesterday but a model society with freedom, opportunity and prosperity not found, they think, in older cultures.

They rejoice that "We are No.1", and in many ways they are.

But events have revealed a creeping mildew of pain and privation, graft and injustice and much incompetence lurking beneath the glow of star-spangled superiority.

Many here feel the country is breaking down and losing its moral and political authority.

"US in funk" say the headlines. "I am ashamed to be an American," say the letters to the editor. We are seeing, say the commentators, a crumbling - and humbling - of America.

The catalogue of afflictions is long and grisly. Hurricane Katrina revealed confusion and incompetence throughout government, from town hall to White House.

President Bush, accused of an alarming failure of leadership over the disaster, has now been to the Gulf coast seven times for carefully orchestrated photo ops.

But his approval has dropped below 40 per cent. Public doubt about his capacity to deal with pressing problems is growing.

Americans feel ashamed by the violent, predatory behavior Katrina triggered - nothing similar happened in the tsunami-hit Third World countries - and by the deep racial and class divisions it revealed.

The press has since been giving the country a crash course on poverty and race, informing the flag wavers that an uncaring America may be No.1 on the world inequities index.

It has 37 million living under the poverty line, largely unnoticed by the richest in a country with more than three million millionaires.

The typical white family has $80,000 in assets; the average black family about $6,000. It's a wealth gap out of the Middle Ages. Some 46 million can't afford health insurance, 18,000 of whom will die early because of it.

The US, we learn, is 43rd in the world infant mortality rankings. A baby born in Beijing has nearly three times the chance of reaching its first birthday than a baby born in Washington. Those who survive face rotten schools. On reading and math tests for 15-year-olds, America is 24th out of 29 nations.

On the other side of the tracks, 18 corporate executives have so far been jailed for cooking the books and looting billions. The prosecution of Mr Bush's pals at Enron - the showcase trial of the greed-is-good culture - will be soon.

But the backroom deal lives on and, in an orgy of cronyism, billions of dollars are being carved up in no-bid contracts awarded to politically-connected firms for work in the hurricane-hit states and in Iraq.

The war, seen as unwinnable, is becoming a bleak burden, with nearly 2,000 American dead. Two-thirds think the invasion was a mistake.

The war costs $6billion a month, driving up a nose-bleed high $331billion budget deficit. In five years the conflict will have cost each American family $11,300, it is said.

Mr Bush says blithely he'll cut existing programs to pay for the war and fund an estimated $200billion for hurricane damage. He won't, he says, rescind his tax cuts. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel says Mr Bush is "disconnected from reality".

Americans have been angered by a reports that US troops have routinely tortured Iraqi prisoners. Some 230 low-rankers have been convicted - but not one general or Pentagon overseer. Disgruntled young officers are leaving in increasing numbers.

Meanwhile, further damaging Americans' self image, there's Afghanistan. The White House says its operations there were a success, yet last year Afghanistan supplied 90 per cent of the world's heroin.

America's sense of itself - its pride in its power and authority, its faith in its institutions and its belief in its leaders - has been profoundly damaged. And now the talking heads in Washington predict dramatic political change and the death of the Republicans' hope of becoming the permanent government.
 

peapod

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"You have summed up perfectly the cheap shallow dreams of the neocons?"

Ehm..no I don't think ocean said that, I said it back further, in regards to the idols malls and shite like that.

Let me ask you this, does the means at which you achieve your "qualities" of life play into this list??
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Then - if indeed the qualities I listed are tran-politics, why did you attempt to put it into a political context: "You have summed up perfectly the cheap shallow dreams of the neocons
:?: :?: :?: :?

hey there peapod. How was your day??

Not sure about you.......but find that this is losing continuity/coherence.........or I had too much "pumpkin" juice;-)
 

JomZ

Electoral Member
Aug 18, 2005
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Reentering the Fray at CC.net
If what I described is being a neocon, then I am proud to be one.
Let's all be neocons, and then we will have:

1. Prosperity
2. Social skills
3. Families sharing time together
4. Fun, singing, music and laughter
5. Generosity
6. A sense of community
7. Beauty
8. Concern for others (I stumbled on a curb and a nice lady
caught me - expressing concern)
9. Friends
10. Manners

Nah!

I'd rather have knowledge, wisdom, and understanding ( I know that is the forbidden fruit of the Neoconservative movement). Because all that you describe are the pluses that a life of priviledge can afford, things you get when you are not fighting for survival. When it comes to surviving, none of that matters.

I'd trade all that in a second for knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. But hey that's me.
 

jjw1965

Electoral Member
Jul 8, 2005
722
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16
If what I described is being a neocon, then I am proud to be one.
Let's all be neocons, and then we will have:

1. Prosperity
2. Social skills
3. Families sharing time together
4. Fun, singing, music and laughter
5. Generosity
6. A sense of community
7. Beauty
8. Concern for others (I stumbled on a curb and a nice lady
caught me - expressing concern)
9. Friends
10. Manners

Let's all be neocons, and then we will have:
1.Martial Law
2.Loss of liberty
3.Human Rights violations
4.National Debt
5.Imperial War and Occupation
6.Police State
7.Forced Savings
8.Forced Democracy
9.Voter Fraud
10.Invasion of Privacy